Check And Advise-FD Not Dispatched

[SteveOFD 176]

I recently heard that the reason a local FD is dispatched by its PD is the amount of $$ that the FD would be charged by 60 to take its calls.

[Guest EFFP411]

Up here in Dutchess, when a fire is called in, they dispatch FD immidiately. police are usually advised sfter and update us because they get there quicker. for accidents, and ems calls, the county has a new bug-the priority system. they should just leave it alone for a while until they figure out how to use it pecause 95 percent of the time, they're usually wrong, thats why we've been given orders to go code three unless confirmed by personnel on scene. every priority 3 or 4 call ends up being worse than we thought, ie: als, or medivac required. my theory is, just tell us all the information you have on the call, and well find out soon enough whether or not its serious.

[Guest]

The PSAP (Public Safety Answering Point) for our town is the PD. As a result, our FD got late dispatches to certain calls, mostly MVAs on local roads, and always on the Merritt Parkway. If there was a fire related call, the PD dispatcher had a tie line to the FD and we then dispatched ourselves. The problem with this was that at times, our own dispatch center would be vacated when that person needed to respond to a greater alarm.

About four years ago, we outsourced our fire and EMS dispatch to Southwest CMed out of Bridgeport Hospital. It has been a phenomenally positive experience and I can't see ever going back to self dispatching. Here are the major benefits for us:

1. It gave us another firefighter at the scene. As with many departments, we run on minimum staffing, so that add at the scene was big.

2. We don't have to worry about our dispatch center being uncovered.

3. We get pre-arrival information, which can be key. Our dispatch center also has all of the water source locations so we can get that information en route. Dispatch can also relay that information to our automatic and mutual aid departments.

4. The CAD technology has enabled us to go to a box structure and automatic aid with five surrounding towns. Also, the CAD eliminates errors associated with relying on humans to make decisions on should aid be called, if so which towns and which apparatus. That used to be a big problem for us. For example, the IC just needs to request a second alarm, and dispatch automatically fills out the assignment for our department, calls in appropriate mutual aid departments and appartus types, dispatches EMS, contacts the power company, and sends an engine to cover our firehouse.

5. Our dispatch center can patch phones, cell phones and other frequencies into our dispatch channel, making for better interoperability. We also have access to 10 additional Med channels which we could be assigned if we needed more frequencies.

6. We never have a situation where we don't get dispatched when we should. If an MVA gets called in, Fire and EMS are dispatched simultaneously with PD.

7. The dispatchers are all professional and well trained. They take great pride in their jobs.

We looked at upgrading our PD dispatch to do fire and EMS, but it was roughly ten times more expensive to go that route. Outsourcing to a regional dispatch center is very cost effective.

There are many other benefits, but I think that you get the point. It enabled us to significantly and very cost effectively upgrade our dispatching capability and put another man on the truck.

[Guest]

Just a thought. Maybe the times between when the call came to PD & the time FD is notified should be sent to insurance co's and the home owners.

[Guest]

I agree that "check and advise" is a terrible way to look after your community - what does everyone think of jurisdictions that have their own FD dispatch?

[grumpyff 1,159]

While looking at the News12 website I came across this article: Delayed FD response claimed Basically a homeowner in Pamona dials 911 to report a brush fire that is spreading to his house. The 911 operator gets the info and transfers the call to FD. In the process the call got dropped. Fd was still dispatched based on the info the dispatcher has. Now the homeowner feels that the response was delayed, since the call was disconnected. Only one call should be made, why is there a need to transfer the caller to another dispatcher, who is more than likely going to ask the same questions. Eliminate the perception to the public that they are being bounced from dispatcher to dispatcher.

Edited April 22, 2006 by grumpyff

[JBE 328]

Perception, nothing. In a lot of cases the call is transferred from dispatcher to dispatcher unless you have a 911 center that handles everything. The homeowner is talking out of his @$$, as the public usually does when they don't understand how the system works. The call was placed, the information was disseminated, the rigs got there. Why not look into the other factors, such as tinder dry brush conditions, wind speed, cause of the fire, response time of apparatus(not pointing fingers). 5 minutes plus is an eternity to a person in need.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

I recently heard that the reason a local FD is dispatched by its PD is the amount of $$ that the FD would be charged by 60 to take its calls.

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I would think that going to 60 control would be a free service, 60 is a county run center.....if not how does 60 charge, by run #'s to come up with a price? Very interesting if this is the case any help on this????

[ex-commish 490]

I would think that going to 60 control would be a free service, 60 is a county run center.....if not how does 60 charge, by run #'s to come up with a price?  Very interesting if this is the case any help on this????

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I believe some of the $$$ comes from a surcharge on your phone bill.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Sounds like someone once again talking about things they don't know. Why not call and find out. I've never heard of such a charge to use their services. Another well I heard this so it must be true syndrome. Or the fear of change, or even worse it won't work because I have no clue about what someone is asking or offering a solution.

Also as far as the 911 open line issue. Of course it could be a crime in progress. But it also could be a fire in progress.....a medical emergency in progress....etc. The point is if the line is open there is a chance of any of the above and you need to get the appropriate resources ready at that point. 911 hang ups are nusiance calls, they get a PD response first. 911 open lines are along the lines of a unknown medical, etc. You would stage no different then if you have information of a potential violent or unsecure scene, like 100's of other FD and EMS agencies do for such calls. IMO as I've stated before at least go on stand-by so if you're a volunteer agency you already have resources staffed so if it is a problem and you only want to send PD to the scene, the response isn't then further delayed waiting for personnel to assemble.

Anything less then this on 911 open lines is no different then a check and advise many of you were passionate about.

[Guest WCDES636]

ALS,

I think one of the reasons EMS and Fire are not notified of open or hang up E911 calls, might be Hero Syndrome. That would be when EMS or Fire units are dispatched and told to stage until the scene is deemed safe by PD. But it is my experience that SOME EMS and Fire units just continue in to the scene. Even after PD arrival, the scene may still not be safe for other responders. I think a lot have forgotten the first rule of any scene. Responder safety is FIRST.

[JetPhoto 626]

I have to say, that my County, Dutchess has a very good system in place. Developed by years of trial and error of emergency answering points and dispatching centers not just here but from centers in NY and major cities across the country.

With that said the 911 center receives all landline calls throughout the county with the exception of the City of Poughkeepsie who receives them in their 911 center (the back up for the county center.) They receive cellular calls as well. (Often cell callers from other counties end up in Dutchess 911 simply because of tower locations)

Communication with field units

Dutchess has a very good radio system for fire, EMS and Police. All fire and EMS agencies (except the City of Poughkeepsie, but can be) are dispatched to 911 calls on common UHF channels. This allows any department in any part of the county to go mutual aid to another and continue to use the same common channels.

All police units can receive calls from the 911 center on a common VHF channel. This allows agencies to hear things that are going on next to them and assist as needed a lot quicker. (Note: The City and Town of Poughkeepsie and, Beacon have the calls transferred to them.) A notification is announced on the 911 channel for any life threatening emergencies. This common channel also is helpful when an agency needs a BOLO put out and other situations arise.

VOIP Calls

A problem that plagues most 911 centers is the routing of VOIP calls because of the non-compliance of third party cable VOIP providers. There have been many serious in nature VOIP calls that have gone to the wrong places due to negligence on the VOIP carrier. Because of this, Dutchess is always expanding their knowledge of areas outside of Dutchess so they have a better chance on correctly directing any calls they get in error.

Priority Calls

Many areas that dispatch and EMD calls use some type of protocols. It is very possible for mistakes to happen. Any dispatcher that uses such a system can tell you, nothing is perfect. A great example is last month a call was received for a person who fell in the shower, it was sent out as a simple fall priority 4. On the arrival of the ambulance, they started screaming for a helicopter and manpower. Well, it turns out the caller only said the person fell and not that it was thru a glass shower door and that a leg was nearly severed! The point is the system is only as good as the information the caller provides. Calls are constantly reviewed by an on staff QA/QI person. Because of that some call priorities have been changed. With the approval of the EMD services they use.

New CAD system forthcoming

In conjunction with the new phases of cellular calls the Dutchess receives (currently Phase 2) a new CAD system will go in place in the coming months that will pin point on a map the exact location of the caller (landline or cellular). This will greatly improve the accuracy of the location of a caller and help properly route the correct departments to the call. There are many other features that will come with this new system; many are based on digital mapping features that have been developed over the last 10 years.

As you can see there are a lot of good things about Duchess’s 911 center. This is only a few common items that I have discussed. The dispatchers train all the time, but like I said on most calls, "They can only go by what they are told by the caller."

[Guest]

In my town in CT we have a unique problem our 911 calls go through our PD PSAP and we actually contract with an outside agency known as CMED to dispatch our fire units. Our first problem is that our PD dispatch hates our Fire dispatchers. THe check and advise problem is really bad and sometimes while on duty we will listen to them send pd cars to smoke in the area, wires on fire, and all sorts of other stuff and we will not even hear a peap. When we call our dispatch they usually say " dont know anything about it" There have also been instances when the cops will be sent to a house fire and we will hear it on the scanner. Then have the time to go downstairs, dress and get in the rigs and we still sometimes have to wait for tones.

SO the solution in our place now is centralized dispatch. We are getting rid of our contracted dispatch and going over to combined dispatch. They are adding one position and the PD dispatchers will now take care of all three services in town. Problem they are untrained in FD and EMS dispatch and nobody seems to care. IM not too sure which is worse honestly!!!!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

636,

I can agree to that and I have seen it. The bigger picture is why? In one word what you described is called freelancing. The biggest cancer in all emergency services. Why does it happen? (And again, 911 hang ups is a PD issue. 911 open lines.....at a minimum units should go on stand-by in my opinion.)

1. Lack of written policies in regard to response, particulary that time of response.

2. Lack of enforcement of such policies when a breach occurs. Then again its difficult to enforce something not on paper.

3. Lack of leadership taking control of such calls, enforcement of such as above or instilling the sense of importance that if your riding in the "officers" seat, you are thereby responsible for that unit, its crew and the actions you/it takes.

I do not believe in management by reaction or reduction.

And being I've worked/lived and volunteer in the Dutchess system for over 6 years now, I have to say again it is a system that would work for Westchester as well.