Walk in vs. Non walk in Rescue's

[sbvfd596 2]

As new trucks arrive, I've noticed some "rescues" are either walk in , or non walk in. I've talked to some officers of these trucks, and I still never get to answer my question of which is better? Some say it basiclly depends on youre needs. The non walk in's are better for personel safety on the highway, but that seems to be a waste?. Anyways, I don't really know which is better, but was just wondering what you guys think, and how do you make a descion on what type of rescue's better.

[TRUCK6018 50]

The bottom line as to which is better is up to the individual department's needs. There are pro's and con's to each.

I personally think the walk around body (non-walk in) is better. Why? you gain a lot more space for equipment. It also reduces the limitations of the size of the compartments. In a walk through, you might have a few full width compartments under the passenger area of the box. In a walk around, every compartment can be full width (if desired). This is good for larger pieces of equipment that you may want to access from both sides.

[Jason762 2]

I agree with what was already stated, there are pro's and con's to both. I have had the opportunity to work with both types of rigs (our old rescue, which is now the reserve rescue, is a walk thru type, and our current rig is the non walk-thru type) and I have to say because of our needs in our dept. the walk thru style is better. Yes you get more storage space in sq feet, but a lot of this space is unusable (of course this could be because of poor design).The biggest problem we have is that there is not enough storage space for all of our equipment. The way it is set up right now is all of our everyday stuff is on the frontline rig and the technical rescue equipment is kept on the reserve. Anyway not to digress, but it depends what the dept plans to use it for. Another reason we liked the walk thru more was the divers can get dressed enroute to the call. There is a design out there where all members sit in the front cab of the rig, and behind the front cab there is a bench type seat and dressing area for divers/rehab area. This design combines the best of both worlds, plenty of storage space and still a place to dress. Have your apparatus committee sit down and figure out what the new rig would be used for before making a purchase. A little planning goes a long way.

[ONLOCATION 24]

Definitly has it advantages on both sides, It really comes down to your needs. I have talked to a few on this subject before and they all give good Reasons why either or is Better. It seems to be that Small Pumps on Rescues are becoming more and more Popular. And Also u can have the Best of Both Worlds Like Sleepy Hollows Rescue and Run a International Crew Cab with a Walk-in Body. Personaly I am a Fan of a Walk-in but with adequate Compartment Space.

Edited February 20, 2006 by ONLOCATION

[22 Truck 6]

I personally don't think any of us can answer the question "which is better". There is A LOT of truth to the stament that "it depends on your needs". I don't see how the non-walk-in is better on highways, but that's just me. You need to ask yourself what does yoru rescue do for you? Does it go to wrecks and fires, one or the other, or a lot else?

A lot of us are buying a combi-rescue/pumper to roll as one unit during the day time when member numbers are down...that way we can ensure that water and a tool on the road in the same, first-out truck (maybe only-out truck) to a wreck. In this case a non-walk-in is predominant b/c it provides more space for a pump/tank/and tools (tho i have seen walk-ins w/ a pump and tank).

Another consideration is a a command post. Honestly, do you need it in a rescue truck? Chief's cars are being stacked nowadays with command post products prompting chief officers not to leave the rear-end of their vehicles (rightfully so). Ya sure, the warmth in the winter time is nice, but in all the fires I've been to with a walk-in rescue on scene, NO ONE has used the interior command post (unversitile and unvisual to the scene).

One benefit I have seen to the walk-in is dept.'s that are spec'ing a walk-in for air-bottle filling purposes. Keeps the "filler" warm during the winter (nice for those of you guys and I commend you.

Bottom line, walk-ins are nice to carry A LOT of guys but how many do we have to carry nowadays? 95% of the time, a rescue is going to be third, fourth, or fifth out of the hall (depending on your run cards) to a worker. Why not make the room available for more equip. on a truck? Still can make the cab available to 10 firefighters, and have an arsenal of gear right behind them.

If it's due to a wreck, don't you want some water, just in-case, chief??? More space for a pump and tank on a non-walk-in. If you run an engine first out on wrecks, problem solved. A lot of us upstate run an engine-rescue (comparable to Maryland) with pump/tank/rescue tool (problem solved with one truck). With today's diminishing number of volley's it's a great solution.

If you haven't guessed, I'm in favor of the walk-around. Lots more space for the valuable equip. and that's what a rescue truck is all about, a BIG tool-box. A rescue near-by me (Pittsford FD) has a combi-walk around/walk-in which I found interesting. The only access to the walk-in is thru the cab w/ a command center and few seats w/air-packs (interesting concept...on a '95 Simon-Duplex/Saulsbury frame).

I just see the walk-in as wasted space when you can provide adequate staffing on a truck in the cab, not the box. Chiefs cars are handling command centers, and 10-man cabs handle the manpower situation.

Again, your dept.'s needs trump all......

[Guest]

Good point Jaspn762. Coram just received a rescue just like the one you described. This LI company received a rescue with a 4 door Spartan chasis and a single axle. Just behind the cab is a walk-in area about 6-8 feet in length that is a perfect area for divers to get dressed. It looks like a straight walk-around otherwise. Our department probably could use a new rescue because it really has no more compartment space. This is a real issue. I think a rescue like Coram's on a tandem-axle chasis would be perfect.

[Guest 786XP]

Good point Jaspn762. Coram just received a rescue just like the one you described. This LI company received a rescue with a 4 door Spartan chasis and a single axle. Just behind the cab is a walk-in area about 6-8 feet in length that is a perfect area for divers to get dressed. It looks like a straight walk-around otherwise. Our department probably could use a new rescue because it really has no more compartment space. This is a real issue. I think a rescue like Coram's on a tandem-axle chasis would be perfect.

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13Victor you bring up a good example of what we had hoped to create. The idea was that there needed to be space for at least 2 divers to dress while responding, but did you want to dedicate the entire body (ie: walk-thru) to an incident that may only occur 1 or 2X annually?

The concept of the partial walk-thru (as you described in Coram) would have worked well. There are also several other rigs out there with a similar set-up.

Due to equipment and space concerns, the rig would also probably have to be stretched out to include tandem axles. The SuperVac/ Rescue 1 rear stairway concept (ref: Camden, NJ new R1) would also be a great design to quickly access the roof compartments and still have a functional rear compartment space.

The rig was designed and priced on a Pierce Lance chassis for almost $500,000 at the time (was not a firm price). However, you know the rest of the story as to why it was never built.

One thing is for certain, the present Interstate Battery truck is far from ideal. I would like to see a new rig in the very near future. As long as it is a Pierce, I am happy.

[IzzyEng4 427]

For me, I have always favored walk in units. But it also depends on what a department needs, just like everyone has said here. For instance, if you don't have to worry about a cascade system, want ample compartment space, space for the crew, need a place for changing in to dive or HazMat gear, then I would go with a walk in with a short cab like Berwyn Heights in PGFD or FDNY's. However, if you don't need all that and you just primarily do rescue, extrication, need a cascade unit, whant the light tower on top of the "box" and compartments that are transverse, then the walk around is better with an LFD or XLFD cab.

I've seen some really good rescues up this way and some monsters. I think though the walk thorough rescues(able to walk from the box to the back of the cab, are only good for tactical or special hazards units, not full rescue companies.

Just my opinion.

Edited February 20, 2006 by IzzyEng4

[Guest]

Yeah, I know the story 786XP. I have seen Camden's rig in person and it is impressive. It is a Seagrave chasis and we know that we will never see that unless we were from the Northern land of make believe. However, it could be done on an HME chasis like the old rescues in FDNY. Speaking on behalf of safety, I think a 4-door cab is safer for the members. I assume that very few ff's who ride in the back of a walk-through are seated and/or belted in.

Anyway, anything is better than the product of mating of a Boar's Head and Snap-On truck we have now!!!!!!!!!

[Guest 786XP]

The 4 door cab would be highly preferable to the walk-thru. The previous walk-in unit allowed for too many members to be thrown around the back or hang out the back door (yeah I know that was not supposed to happen, but we know in reality.......).

The walk-thru also present a communications issue between cab and crew body. Having the Officer peer thru a small window and yelling instructions over the siren is kind of silly? The driver is also at a disadvantage with a lack of awareness as to if and when the crew members are properly seated.