A Chiefs Quote About Getting Burned

[ex-commish 490]

"......If a fireman is on the department and doesn't get burned, he isn't doing his job," Chief Gorrell said. "If they don't get burned, I don't want them our department. If they are afraid to get burned, they're on the wrong job......"

This was a quote from a chief in FirefightersCloseCalls.com. What are your thoughts???

Andy Mancusi

Chief

Hawthorne FD

[Guest]

"......If a fireman is on the department and doesn't get burned, he isn't doing his job," Chief Gorrell said. "If they don't get burned, I don't want them our department. If they are afraid to get burned, they're on the wrong job......"

This was a quote from a chief in FirefightersCloseCalls.com. What are your thoughts???

Andy Mancusi

Chief

Hawthorne FD

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I'm glad I am not in his Dept. Being aggressive is one thing, but it can be done without compromising safety. Safety is paramount, if we dont' take care of ourselves, than we dont' take care of those we are charged to protect. Being a fire fighter isn't about going "balls to the wall" on an unoccupied struture fire. It's applying your training and strategies with confidence, competence and regard for all those involved. This has nothing to do with fear and everything to do with using your head. I have met FF's who thought like this, but I am very surprised to see it coming from a Chief. Everyone should have a little fear in this job (it keeps you focused). What I fear the most is ignorance of proven safety measures, and those who do not recognize the fire service as a dynamic learning environment.

Thanks for posting that Chief!

[firemoose827 324]

"......If a fireman is on the department and doesn't get burned, he isn't doing his job," Chief Gorrell said. "If they don't get burned, I don't want them our department. If they are afraid to get burned, they're on the wrong job......"

This was a quote from a chief in FirefightersCloseCalls.com. What are your thoughts???

Andy Mancusi

Chief

Hawthorne FD

←

Hello Chief, I think that every ff needs a healthy respect for fire, so they can go about extinguishing it quicker and safely. I think that I would be a little cautious around those who get burns at every fire! Than again I got burned once, but it was through my nomex hood and mask, around my forehead and jaw line at a fire that was HOT.

[cas2383 22]

I'm sure this is taken out of context if it isn't I'd question why this person is a Cheif...

[xfirefighter484x 234]

... Being aggressive is one thing, but it can be done without compromising safety.

Thanks for posting that Chief!

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FF304 hit it on the head. Aggressive and proud, sure, that is a great philosophy I hope and wish ever firefighter has, but there is no excuse for incompetence. I am sorry that such a grand overstatement of stupidity had to come from a chief. He did have one quote that I did agree with. "If they are afraid to get burned they are on the wrong job." I say that only because it IS one of the inherent dangers of firefighting, but COME ON!!!! Do not go out there with the intent of burning your firefighters, that accomplishes nothing more than workmans comp issues, as well as downtime for FF who are out on medical!! Ok, sorry, my rant is over!

-xfirefighter484x

[ex-commish 490]

FF304 hit it on the head. Aggressive and proud, sure, that is a great philosophy I hope and wish ever firefighter has, but there is no excuse for incompetence. I am sorry that such a grand overstatement of stupidity had to come from a chief. He did have one quote that I did agree with. "If they are afraid to get burned they are on the wrong job." I say that only because it IS one of the inherent dangers of firefighting, but COME ON!!!! Do not go out there with the intent of burning your firefighters, that accomplishes nothing more than workmans comp issues, as well as downtime for FF who are out on medical!! Ok, sorry, my rant is over!

-xfirefighter484x

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None of us want to be burned wether it is in training or the real thing. And while we like to make training as realisitc as possible we also have to take safeguards to prevent injury.

Andy Mancusi

Chief

Hawthorne FD

[xfirefighter484x 234]

None of us want to be burned wether it is in training or the real thing. And while we like to make training as realisitc as possible we also have to take safeguards to prevent injury.

Andy Mancusi

Chief

Hawthorne FD

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Of course not, I hope you did not think I meant anything of the sort by my response, I agree with you fully asstchieffd!

[TRUCK6018 50]

Here's the rest of the article that the quote came from:

Article published Feb 3, 2006

Rookie firefighters burned at training

Chief, former chief say such injuries common

BY BARRY WILLIAM WALSH

bwwalsh@marion.gannett.com

Two probationary firefighters suffered minor burns Wednesday during a training fire at a home near Indiana Wesleyan University's campus, Marion Fire Chief Steve Gorrell said.

"It's something that we deal with every working fire we have - somebody will get burned," he said.

Probationary firefighters Brandon Eckstein and Ryan Simpkins suffered steam burns, caused by the evaporation of liquid on skin, Gorrell said. The burns occurred during a training fire at a vacant residence at 202 E. 38th St.

"If they aren't completely covered, if any wetness occurs, (a steam burn) is automatic," he said.

Former Marion Fire Chief Mike Hutcheson, who spent more than 31 years on the city's fire department, agreed.

"Steam burns can happen about any time when you are fighting fires," Hutcheson said. " ... You just have to be careful what you are doing."

Neither firefighter's injuries were too serious, Gorrell said. Eckstein's burn caused some redness on his shoulder. He was treated by medical personnel at the scene. Simpkins' burn caused some blisters on his fingers, and he was treated at Work Right Occupational Medicine.

Gorrell also said the two firefighters were using borrowed fire equipment because the equipment that had been ordered for them had yet to arrive.

"This will be the last type of hands-on training for a year, so we wanted to jump on there and get them their training as soon as possible," he said.

The steam burns the two firefighters suffered are part of the training experience that all new firefighters go through, Gorrell said.

"It's just kind of a common thing," he said. "Once (a firefighter) gets the hang of it, when you feel a certain type of heat, you realize you have got to back up. It kind of shows that they aren't afraid to get in there and fight the fire."

Gorrell estimated that at every fire a firefighter gets burned in some fashion - some are just more serious than others. Firefighters also have ointment and water at the scene of every fire to treat any burns that do occur.

"If a fireman is on the department and doesn't get burned, he isn't doing his job," Gorrell said. "If they don't get burned, I don't want them our department. If they are afraid to get burned, they're on the wrong job."

[Guest]

I am sure that the chief is old school.I am sure that in his day working with a burn or a couple of stitches from a good job was a badge of pride.I remember when getting blood on you from a good EMS job was the same.That attitude needs to go though,no one needs to be hurt, and a good chief should hope none of his men ever do.

[Guest]

i'm sure the reporter made the story a little better also. you get expirience from getting close and sometimes it does get a little hot but you learn the limits by getting hot not burned. when you learn to ride a bike for the first time without training wheels your almost guaranted to fall. its not the plan its the learning process! some departments aren't as advanced as some westchester departments either, some towns have budget restraints. they had borrowed gear not personal gear. it's important to have proper fitting and dry gear. if your running from alarm to alarm back to back or even overnight if the gear is soaked through yes it will happen. so you younger people know to take your gear out of service when its wet. find another set temperarely if you can but make sure its dry. especialy your gloves.

[348 4]

it is because of reckless attitudes like this chief that 100 firefighters are still getting killed in the 21st century

[LTFIREPRG 154]

it is because of reckless attitudes like this chief that 100 firefighters are still getting killed in the 21st century

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I can't agree more. This chief should consider turning in his trumpets! He needs to get his head out of the sand. Burning firefighters should never be considered just part of the job, let alone during training. He is also confused, "if a fireman is on the department and doesn't get burned, he isn't doing his job" news flash Chief Gorrell he is doing a great job! A quote from Chief Alan Burnacini said it all, "for 200 years we have been providing a service at the expense of those providing the service" Unfortunately with chiefs thinking like Gorrell, this we will continue for the next 200 years.

[ex-commish 490]

Of course not, I hope you did not think I meant anything of the sort by my response, I agree with you fully asstchieffd!

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Xfirefighter....No i did not think you meant anything of the sort and apoligize if it was presented that way...

Andy Mancusi

Chief

Hawthorne FD

[TCD0415 26]

Having been a Chief for 5 years, I can not even imagine ever making a statement like that. Yes it is always in the back of your mind, but hopefully it wont happen. If this story is accurate, then I think that he should reconsider his position as a leader and turn it in. After a job, if my guys come home in one piece with no injuries, that is a successful job.

Proper training, and good gear goes a long way in prevention here. The article says "Borrowed Gear" I can only imagine what shape it was in and how it fit as well.

Good luck to the guys in his department and hopefully he will sleep at night after one of his guys gets really burned.

Edited February 9, 2006 by TCD0415

[Jason762 2]

With life safety and of that, primarily OUR LIFE SAFETY, being our number 1 priority at any incident that is taught from day one of FF training, perhaps this Chief should sit thru a refresher class on basics in firefighting or better yet, removed from his post. This comment is completely irresponsible and ridiculous. Like everyone has said, a building can be rebuilt, but you can't replace an injured/killed FF. I'm certainly glad I'm not under his command.

[firecapt32 282]

That fire chief - no wait he's not a a chief-- a chief is a leader of men and that chief doesn't qualify, that man should not only turn in his badge-- the police should be looking for him--delibertly saying his men are better off when they get burned--- where is this guys brains!!!! There should be a some kind of revolt in that department.

Heres the Drill of the month men-- lets see how burned we can get before we quit.

just my thoughts I might be wrong but gee wizz guys who out ther can condone burning their men to see how hot the fire is.

[X615 0]

that's regretable. i'm sure he meant well

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Head out of the sand? You too kind... he needs to get his head out of his @ss. This is exactly the type of training that gets firefighters killed and why I teach live fire safety so often. If someone is getting burned at live fire training, something is wrong. It is not something that "every" firefighter goes through at training."

"It kind of shows that they aren't afraid to get in there and fight the fire."

Any quote in my experience that starts with the term "kind of" is bull$hit. You want to make a strong opinioned statement with no facts, no intelligence and then start another with "kind of" well which one is it there chief....does it or does it not show they aren't afraid. Here is the fact...YOU DON'T AND WON'T KNOW. If anything you may have incresed any fear (which is good, not a bad thing) to the point where they may be hesitant or even want to quit. Nice job there pal.

Live fire training should be an overall evaluated scenario based training that is about basic skills. Not the heat, not how close you can get, etc. The fire should be to enhance the training and give near realistic conditions. Not the term near. The level of heat is not an indication of how the training went. Everything else does. Your not there to burn people out, push them on the their stomachs with heat, melt face shields (no comment ltfireprg that was an accident). Your there to make sure that the hydrant or water supply is correct, the line got (and proper size line) got pulled and stretched correctly, etc. If its not, then your drill is a bust and you wasted time and put people in danger for no reason.

Like I've said before:

1. They don't shoot at Marines and soldiers to prepare them for combat.

2. They don't shoot live rounds at police officers to prepare them for what may come.

3. They don't throw lifeguards into a rip current to learn how to deal with them.

So then why do we build training fires that are above and beyond what we may actually experience? And call it training on top of it to prove something?

[Irons 0]

Anyone that teaches LIVE FIRE SAFETY training should be extremely experienced in FIREFIGHTING otherwise you truly jeopardize your students safety. I would much rather have an experienced and educated instructor rather than just an educated instructor.

This Chief does not sound like a safety minded person and should definitely not be in a chiefs officer position.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Irons, I agree with you. Only I would use different terminology. I teach live fire safety, it is all classroom that covers NFPA 1403 Standard on Live Fire Training.

I believe what you mean is those whom conduct live fire training? Just seeking some clarification.

[ohbdow1 6]

I'll say this for a FACT. The National Fallen Fire Fighters Foundation were asked to give a response to this Chief. Once they were ready to deliver thier findings they found out that thier OWN DEPARTMENT BEAT UP THE CHIEF. This matter is being taken up by the department. It would however be nice to see all organizations take a position on this matter. Blasting this Chief who is lost in some episode of Emergency where no one person ever gets hurt and returns to the next episode would be nice to see. Before some other national organization is formed to protect FIRE FIGHTERS!

[calhobs 110]

That fire chief -  no wait  he's not a  a chief-- a chief is a leader of men and that chief doesn't qualify, that man should  not only turn in his badge-- the police should be looking for him--delibertly saying  his men are better off when they get  burned--- where is  this  guys  brains!!!! There should be a some kind of revolt in that department.

Heres the Drill of the month men-- lets see how  burned we can get before we quit.

just my thoughts I  might be wrong  but  gee wizz guys who out ther can condone burning their men to see how  hot  the fire is.

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Bravo firecapt. One of the most important lessons I learned taking your Fire Officer class was bringing the Brothers and Sisters home safely after a job is your job as an officer. Just wondering how many times did this Chief get burned in ihis career??

[firecapt32 282]

I think he got burned in the head- and it effected his judgement.

Be safe all the time --- pretty simple isnt it. the job is hard enough when its for real. Drills shoud bea realistic as possible but safe.

[e92l44 0]

I'll bet that chief, his and my pension that I have been to more first due fires than his entire department has in it's entire history....and then one time I got burned was my own dumb mistake. I grabbed something hot and wasn't aware it had been in the fire apt. and didn't have gloves on.

What a total jackass.......I'll take him to work with me, then when he soils his pants, I'll tell him the real truth.

You've never been to a real fire until you've crapped your pants....

[Guest SQUADco119]

i like that one e92l44 LOL

[Jared1979 19]

That is a really stupid comment to make a firefighter not getting burned is not doing his job, come on it is not a firefighter's job to get burned. When a firefighter gets burned it is because of not being careful. Leadership like that questions me about who is really responsible enough to lead a fire department. If I was chief of a fire department I would not hope any of my men get burned because it is something that I not would expect out of them. Making sure you dont get burned is something I would want out of my firefighters.

[ex-commish 490]

I am pleased to see all the responses to this issue. I too believe this chief is off the wall and has a dangerous outlook on training. I preach to my members that thier safety is #1 and that goes for training and responding to incidents. Like any chief, I am ultimately reslonsible for setting the tone on how things are done and if something happens like someone getting injured it ultimately lies with me.

Andy Mancusi

Chief

Hawthorne FD

[firecapt32 282]

hold on there jared1979-- firefighters do get burned-- it happens some times is from being careless as e92l44 stated somtimes it just happens.

That chiefs comments concerned training and being burned and the chief attatude. Lets not complicate things--sometimes s*** just happens.