Taking SCBA's out of the cab

[Guest]

Are there any departments that are removing SCBA's from the cab?. Phoenix started a trend with regard to FF safety, by removing all SCBA's from the cab. I have heard that departments in the area have removed some (mostly the officer's seat)or all of the SCBA's, and was curious if anyone had some feedback on how this has been working. Mainly 1) does it encourage seatbelt use?, 2) Does it greatly affect the time it takes to get the line in the door, due to the extra time to don the pack?

[Guest alsfirefighter]

In articles regarding Phoenix's experience with it, they have noticed no change in time that it takes to get to work. How many of you can get out of the cab with an SCBA on and not have to adjust it so it sits properly anyway? For departments that members arrive in POV's does it affect you? Probably not.

SCBA in the cab or no SCBA's shouldn't matter in regard to seat belt use. If you don't use it, then plain and simple your a (*&(&hole. Many you know my stance on this and how I feel we can get compliance with such.

[JBE 328]

I would think keeping them in the cab would suit many departments fine in the sense that you just grab it and go upon arrival. Having to grab them out of a compartment and then putting them on seem to me like a waste of time when seconds count, and it would be like taking a step backwards.

As for seatbelt use, I concur with the gent above me.

Edited February 7, 2006 by JBE

[Guest]

I would think keeping them in the cab would suit many departments fine in the sense that you just grab it and go upon arrival. Having to grab them out of a compartment and then putting them on seem to me like a waste of time when seconds count, and it would be like taking a step backwards.

As for seatbelt use, I concur with the gent above me.

←

I agree. Keeping them in a place easy to access is important. As for seatbelts, I agree that it is a personal responsibility as well as that of the Officer or driver. Though I do think that removing the SCBA from the seat may encourage some to be smarter about their decision to use the seatbelt.

[cas2383 22]

Keeping the SCBA's mounted in the cab saves very valuable compartment space. My rig carries 8 SCBA's and we keep 4 in the cab, 4 in a compartment, I can just imagine trying to find some where else to keep those four with all the other equipment we carry. In a perfect world we'd have all the space we'd need to neatly organize our units but keeping them in the cab frees up one more compartment maybe two.

[Guest]

having SCBA in the crew cab certainly helps get to work faster...especially for departments that wear their mask at pretty much every alarm...as for not wearing seatbelts...yeah its stupid not to, but its another thing that many of us don't do, but should...albeit it makes it tough to put on your mask with the seatbelt on, but still...

[Guest]

FD304 I think is asking if departments in the area are removing airpaks from only the officer’s seat, but leaving the paks in the jump seats. I think Phoenix FD removed them from their cabs completely. I am not aware of any department removing paks at all from the cabs in the area regardless if it is the officer's seat or the whole cab but we will see what others say.

[firemoose827 324]

I think what FD304 was trying to say was removing the packs from the Driving compartment; Not the jump seats. My opinion is the officers pack, depending on the available room and the type of mount, is convenient to have. In my dept we just got a new Engine with the officers pack in the passengers seat, it is mounted directly behind the seat. This mounting makes the seat feel so far forward that you almost feel like you are sitting on the hood, it also takes away space to be able to don the pack. Some departments just dont take the time to properly lay out and measure their new apparattus according to what their response area needs. Like the new engine of ours I mentioned above, the jump seat is supposedly a five man cab, a forward facing bench seat with three packs and two fold up jump seats facing backwards without packs. This is ok except for the fact that you couldnt even fit THREE ff's on the bench seat without elbowing each other. And when their are ff's on the bench the jumpseats couldnt even be folded out without taking out someones knees !!

I think that with proper planning and layout the cab packs could definately be used effectively, and with the proper training and leadership all ff's would become used to using the seatbelt. This is just something that each individual dept needs to experiment with to determine what best suits their needs.

Where did you read that article? Just curious and wanted to read myself.

See Ya!

[TRUCK6018 50]

The original post asked about opinions regarding the removal of SCBA's from the cab and referenced Chief Brunacini and Pheonix FD as they removed all SCBA's from all riding positions.

The cab of the vehicle is not just the driving compartment but the total enclosure carrying personnel.

What good is only removing the SCBA from the officer when all personnel are required to be belted in and all personnel are susceptible to injuries not being belted in.

[firemoose827 324]

The original post asked about opinions regarding the removal of SCBA's from the cab and referenced Chief Brunacini and Pheonix FD as they removed all SCBA's from all   riding positions.

The cab of the vehicle is not just the driving compartment but the total enclosure carrying personnel. 

What good is only removing the SCBA from the officer when all personnel are required to be belted in and all personnel are susceptible to injuries not being belted in.

←

Just my opinion, TRUCK6018. Different depts. have different terminology for the trucks and their parts, I was finding out what he meant by "Cab". In our dept the cab is the drivers compartment, and the area the ff's ride in is the jump seats.

How many of us remeber to put on their seatbelts on the way to an extrication, or working structure fire? The officer is in charge of the crew, and it's just my opinion that he/she should check out who they have as a crew, make sure they are set for the response, ( Seated, belted.) than hand out responsibilities and tasks. Everyone stay safe.

Jonesy

[Guest]

My reference was actually to both setups. I was just trying to gauge what departments have removed all or some of the SCBA's. What the reasoning was, and did it serve the intended purpose.

I definately agree that the Officer is in charge of the crew and should make the effort to ensure his crew is operating safely be it enroute, on scene , or in quarters.

That aside, what I was hoping to find out is if anyone has actually done this. I referenced Phoenix as one dept. that I know has done this, though I have heard of others that have similar set-ups. I guess the bottom line is that the safety issue can be addressed in so many ways, and can depend on the spec of the rig, SOG's, Officer's concern for safety etc. This is one piece of the puzzle, and I am realizing that there is no simple answer to this quesiton. Perhaps we'll have some statistics on the issue in the future to determine if the measure has been successful in those areas which have employed the practice.

[firemoose827 324]

My reference was actually to both setups. I was just trying to gauge what departments have removed all or some of the SCBA's. What the reasoning was, and did it serve the intended purpose.

I definately agree that the Officer is in charge of the crew and should make the effort to ensure his crew is operating safely be it enroute, on scene , or in quarters.

That aside, what I was hoping to find out is if anyone has actually done this. I referenced Phoenix as one dept. that I know has done this, though I have heard of others that have similar set-ups. I guess the bottom line is that the safety issue can be addressed in so many ways, and can depend on the spec of the rig, SOG's, Officer's concern for safety etc. This is one piece of the puzzle, and I am realizing that there is no simple answer to this quesiton. Perhaps we'll have some statistics on the issue in the future to determine if the measure has been successful in those areas which have employed the practice.

←

Hello FD304, I have seen it done before by the way. Sorry to have veered off topic before. In my new dept in Cobleskill, NY, they had a system with pumpers. We cover a large Village and an even larger town with multiple hamlets. They had it set up so that their Engine 2 was for urban responses; 5 inch hose, knox box keys, 500 gallon tank and 1250 gpm pump, multiple crosslays for various cases, and everything else you would need in the village.

For the town responses they set up Engine 3 with 1000 gall tank, 1000 gpm pump, portable pond compartment, portable pumps and suction adapters, ect. On engine 3 they kept the air packs in the rear passengers side compartment figuring the crew would first help drop the suction in the source and help the PO set up the pond, than they would hopefully have more manpower on scene to pack up and attack. Usually it is surround and drowneds though

Stay safe

Jonesy

[Guest]

Thanks Jonesy. It shows that it really is part of a bigger question. What is this rig designed to do? Having two set-ups seems like a smart application. My department is leaning towards adjusting the set-up on our second due rigs to have them designed for mutual aid response to adjoining districts with significantly different needs. Though we aren't currently moving SCBA's on those rigs. It is something to consider in the discussion. We also carry SCBA's in a rear compartment in addition to the cab to support those who arrive in POV's. Typically we have 3 in cab/3 in a compartment. If we removed them from the cab, we'd be hard pressed for space.

[brgold 0]

In articles regarding Phoenix's experience with it, they have noticed no change in time that it takes to get to work.  How many of you can get out of the cab with an SCBA on and not have to adjust it so it sits properly anyway?  For departments that members arrive in POV's does it affect you?  Probably not.

SCBA in the cab or no SCBA's shouldn't matter in regard to seat belt use.  If you don't use it, then plain and simple your a (*&(&hole.  Many you know my stance on this and how I feel we can get compliance with such.

←

I think that it is better to have the pack on, even if its not adjusted properly, because its faster to adjust it right when you get off then to have to put it on and adjust. The thing is that a firefighter has time when traveling to the alarm to put on the pack.

But I agree with you on seat belts it is defiantly something that needs to be used all the time but is not.

[mfc2257 464]

I personally don't think that many of the changes that are made to the equipment location in fire apparatus are really necessary.

I personally feel that it is very important for every MOS that is riding on a piece of apparatus to have an SCBA in their seating location including the driver. At this point in history, as FF's we are asked to respond to many calls that can seemingly be routine, but upon arrival we find that chemicals, hazards, etc require quick action for us to protect ourselves. An SCBA that is instantly available to all personnel on the rig is the first line of defense to protect ourselves.

Removing SCBA's from the cab will not have a major impact on safety. The riding in a piece of fire apparatus doesn't need to feel like riding in a Town Car. Modern SCBA seats are designed to allow the FF or officer to pack up and wear their seatbelt when they are done. They don't have to be as comfortable as our POV's. NOW the problem is that people just don't put their seat belt on when they are done packing up. It would be preferable for everyone to have all their gear on before they pull out of the station so that all that remains is to put on thier shoulder straps, waist strap, seat belt.

Removing SCBA's from the cab is not solving the real problem.