Cascade Systems on Rescue Trucks

[LCFD968 10]

We are looking to buy a Rescue Truck or Rescue Pumper in the near future.

What is the opinion of putting a cascade system on the truck?

Our neighboring department has one on there Rescue if we ever needed it at the scene and we have a unit at our Sub Station.

The first 2 rigs on scene at a structure fire 10 packs and 17 spare cylinders. The rescue carries an additional 6 packs with approx. 15 spare cylinders.

[Guest]

If your M/A company has 1 you dont really need to purchase 1

whens the new engine come in service and is it gonna fit on all the roads in Lake Carmel

[Guest]

sounds like you have everything coverd for bottles , dont waste the space or $$$$$$$$$

[TRUCK6018 50]

In regard to a cascade on a rescue, you need to weigh the pro's and con's.

First you have to figure out the departmental need for it. You state that M/A co's have them. If you're going to deplete your own SCBA's on a job, chances are, you're going to have M/A come in anyway. Based on this, I don't think the need is there. I'm against duplication of resources such as this.

Lets just say for the sake of argument, that the powers that be insist on having the cascade system on board. Will you have enough space for the rest of the equipment you want/need? Additionally, how much weight will the cascade add to the vehicle. These are all things that need to come into play. Cascade units take up a lot of room that can probably be occupied by more needed equipment.

[CPAGE 2]

I have scene system in rescue trucks that is a very nice tool to have but i like the idea of 2 or 3 town going together and getting a bread truck of the new thing a trailer and use that as a SCBA fill station it can be stationed at each station on a month by month system and can be a good resource for all in the area. just my 2 cents.

[Guest]

I have scene system in rescue trucks that is a very nice tool to have but i like the idea of 2 or 3 town going together and getting a bread truck of the new thing a trailer and use that as a SCBA fill station it can be stationed at each station on a month by month system and can be a good resource for all in the area. just my 2 cents.

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I heard MT.Vernon is getting a new Rescue. Maybe your Department would be interested in buying their old Bread Truck or Tool Box on wheels to convert it into a Cascade Truck. The only thing it did for the past 20 years was get in the way. Why they're getting a new one anyway when all it does is respond with an Officer and one firerfighter is beyond my comprehension. The only thing it contributes to the scene is spare bootles and a cooler full of water!

Edited January 8, 2006 by capt.415

[CPAGE 2]

Hey capt 415 maybe you should back up with kicking any dept on the forum if you dont like them then say nothing at all about them. FDMV may not have the manpower they should have but that is not the members fault they do what they can with what they have. So back up and look in the miror maybe you are not so great.

[BFD1054 1,552]

Heres my own personal opinionon this topic; I am not a huge fan of cascade systems on rescue trucks. Yes, a rescue truck is the ideal rig for a cascade system, however they take up alot of space and cost big $$$.

Again, this is only my personal opinion. As many of you know, in Buchanan we have Utilty-12 which is an air and light support rig ONLY. We are the only mobile cascade system in the Tri-Village and a bit beyond. The other ones are Briarcliff, Continental Village and Yorktown. Those departments have their cascade systems on their rescue trucks. The reason i am not in favor of having a cascade system on a rescue is because if you go m/a for the cascade, you are taking a front line rig out of service basically. In many departments, the rescue maybe the only rig with extrication tools and other important equipment that may be needed in your own district. If you are at a m/a job and those tools are needed in your district, you are basically SOL.

Our Utility-12 has its own compressor, capable of filling (2) bottles at once and in a very short time. Since it has its own compressor, it has the luxury of never running out of air. There was actually a large fire not too long ago where another department was called m/a for their cascade. Thier departments cascade was on their rescue and did NOT have a compressor and actually ran out of air. Buchanan was then called to the scene to continue filling bottles and actually fill the other departments system.

Having a rig soley dedicated as a mobile cascade unit is obviously a luxury. However, other departments in the area can feel comfortable in knowing if they call us for the cascade, they will not be taking one of our front-line rigs out of service!

I understand that this is costly and that most departments do not have this luxury and therefore place cascade systems on their rescue trucks. Buchanan had the first mobile cascade rig in the County, which was a 1955 ex-pumper, which was converted into the cascade rig. That unit, known as the "red flyer" saw alot of action and major fires in the County. It responded to White Plains twice, once for the tanker fire on I-287 and the other for a multi-alarm apartment fire. It also responded to the Charter Circle fire in Ossining in 1999, as well as to the Bronx after 9/11/01 and not to mention the countless fires in Peekskill! With the 1955 Utility-12 getting older and older, a decision had to be made if it was going to be replaced. It was decided that Buchanan had run a mobile cascade rig for soo long and it had been a help to soo many departments that we would replace the rig and continue the Utility-12 legacy lol! The 1955 Chevy was replaced in 2003 by an E-One/International and the 55' went to the NYS Firemens Museum in Hudson, NY.

So there ya have it, my personal feelings on cascade systems and a little history of ours lol! So if any department decides that they want a cascade system and that a rescue truck would be the best place for it, just make sure you think it through and do your research! Realize that they are costly and they WILL take up a good ammount of space that may be better suited for other equipment!

As capt.415 stated, if it is feasable for your department, you may want to look into purchasing a 2nd-hand rig to use as a mobile cascade rig. If you could find an old rescue truck or utility truck in decent shape and for a decent price, you may want to purchase that and have a cascade system installed. Use that soley for a cascade/utilty rig, thus leaving you to have more space on a rescue truck for more needed equipment! Also, when looking into these rigs, take into account the weight of the systems and a compressor! We had to get a larger International chassis due to the weight factor! As i said, we use Utilty-12 just for an air/light support rig and it doesn't have a whole lot of other equipment on it. But due to the weight, we had to go bigger on the chassis, so now the rig has a whole lot of power and is pretty quick lol!

Just my 2 cents and some things to take into consideration.

Edited January 8, 2006 by BFD1054

[LCFD968 10]

Thank you everybody here responses. BFD1054, I think Bucannon FD just got put on the mutaul aid list for Lake Carmel FD, LOL!!!!!

All kidding aside, we are a bedroom community and i dont think it would serve a purpose in our fire district to have a cascade system put on the new truck when Carmel FD has one right down the road.

It just seems that cons being money factor, weight issue and taking up space outweigh the pro's of just having the cascade there. Not when Bucannon can be here in 20 minutes, LOL!!!

Edited January 8, 2006 by LCFD968

[LCFD968 10]

whens the new engine come in service and is it gonna fit on all the roads in Lake Carmel

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I am proud to say that 17-2-3 is now in service and yes it fits on ALL of the roads in our district.

Edited January 8, 2006 by LCFD968

[BFD1054 1,552]

LCFD968....Sounds good to me bro lol! All kidding aside, we will respond anywhere when requested! U12 will respond with a driver, officer and firefighter. A Chief will also take 2 or 3 FF's in their car to the scene as well to assist. Our guys will fill bottles, canvass the fire scene for empty bottles and are available to be used for any other assignment if need-be.

But as you said, it probably isn't feesable for Lake Carmel to have a system put on your rescue truck. If a m/a department near-by has one and you can rely on them to be there quickly, then don't waste the money and space on your own system! Sure its nice to have your own system and nopt have to rely on mutual-aid, but its just a luxury! Besides, thats what mutual-aid is all about, helping other departments when help is needed!

[mfc2257 464]

In years past it has been a great idea to put a cascade on a rescue. Up until the late 1990's there were only a handful of mobile cascades in the county. Greenburgh Civil Defense, Millwood R-36, Buchannen's Utility, and (don't quote me) New Rochelle's Rescue (R-4 I believe) were the only units around. Then everyone started buying them or retrofitting their rigs with them. To my knowledge all of the following units now have air filling capacity... And I'm sure I'm missing one or two, not to mention Putnam/Fairfield County units that border Westchester Response Area.

Millwood R-36

Briarcliff R-37

Yorktown R-16

Bedford Hills R-10

Katonah R-17

Chappaqua R-23

Irvington R-49

South Salem R-34

Town of Mamaroneck R-6

Larchmont R-1

Continential Village R-39

Irvington R-49

Buchanan U-12

Croton Falls.... I forget the # it is either Rescue or Utility 28

Yonkers U-21???????

Greenburgh Department of Civil Defense U-446

At this point, there are more than enough cascades in the county. With innovation in Truck / Engine bodies and the amount of available space on modern rigs, most departments can fit their extrication equipment, water rescue equipment, and other equipment onto Trucks and Engines and eliminate the need for a dedicated rescue truck unless some form of technical or specialty rescue equipment was carried thus necessitating extra space.

[JohnnyOV 2]

BFD1054, Yorktown has 2 sets of tools. One on R-16 and the other on ENG-270. Eng-270 is basically like a rescue (bring on the heat, i know its coming), with a pump. It is our Primary FAS truck, along with backup rescue unit. It carrys a full supply of airbags, ropes, medical, cribbing, and tools, but is an engine.

So when R-16 is OOS or on M/A, Eng-270 immediatly becomes our 1st due to car accidents and rescue operations.

Edited January 8, 2006 by EMSJunkie712

[BFD1054 1,552]

EMSJunkie....Thats great that you have 2 sets of tools, as does Buchanan. However, like i said, this is a luxury for SOME departments in our area due to cost and what have you. I was just stating that many depts. do NOT have that luxury and would be SOL if they were on a cascade run and their tools were needed else where.

I think its great if a dept. can have at least 2 sets of hydraulic tools, but not all can. Its great that Y-Town is one of those that can. And don't worry lol, we too have a "rescue" pumper! Our Engine-161 has all the makings of a pumper, but also carries a full compliment of Amkus tools, as well as EMS equipment and backboards & stokes basket.

[capt9412 0]

My Rescue has one and it is a huge waste of space .....it takes up the majority of the rear 2 compartments on our heavy rescue.....uses up alot of valuable compartment space for something that isnt used all that often

[DOC22 1]

Croton Falls actually has a cascade on Rescue 28 which was part of its original equipment when we took delivery the old Rescue 28 (now Utility 28) has a three bottle system on it Rescue's is a six bottle system. We also have the compressor currently in Station #1 (Croton Falls House). We also have two tools one is on the rescue and the other is in Station #2 on MA 16. LCFD968 You know you can always call us if you need a mobile cascade system.

[Guest]

Hey capt 415 maybe you should back up with kicking any dept on the forum if you dont like them then say nothing at all about them. FDMV may not have the manpower they should have but that is not the members fault they do what they can with what they have.  So back up and look in the miror maybe you are not so great.

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Chris, I didn't mean to offend anyone or kick any Department on the forum. That's not my style. I guess in my comments, I was actually expressing the majority of opinions that many of F.D.M.V.'s members have with regards to the Rescue. What I stated, is just what I've heard from many of their own. Don't take it to heart. I know they do the best that they can with what little they have and it's a shame they don't get the respect and support from their City Officials, which they undoubtably deserve. If you read my comment in the MT.Vernon F.D. forum I think you'll see I'm behind those guys 100%. Take care and stay Safe!

[Porsha911gt3 8]

Just wondering LCFD968 are you talking about East Fishkill's Squad or is there another department around Lake carmel that has one

[LCFD968 10]

Just wondering LCFD968 are you talking about East Fishkill's Squad or is there another department around Lake carmel that has one

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Carmel FD has one on there Rescue

[Guest]

I heard MT.Vernon is getting a new Rescue. Maybe your Department would be interested in buying their old Bread Truck or Tool Box on wheels to convert it into a Cascade Truck. The only thing it did for the past 20 years was get in the way. Why they're getting a new one anyway when all it does is respond with an Officer and one firerfighter is beyond my comprehension. The only thing it contributes to the scene is spare bootles and a cooler full of water!

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[Porsha911gt3 8]

Carmel FD has one on there Rescue

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o ok

[cas2383 22]

Check out this site for an Idea of what a cascade on a rescue looks like, They do take up a lot of room. This rescue is also equipped with a 2200 psi air reel used for hooking up to the police divers to support their operations as well.

http://www.rescue15.com/r15.html

(The pictures may take a few mins to load)

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

If your neighbor has a cascade unit I would suggest you hold off with going with the added expense of putting one on your rig. The added cost and the space that it will require is not worth it. If you can call in the same resource from a mutual aid company that would probably be your best bet. I speak from experience. We purchased a rescue in the early 90's when there were not many cascade units in the county. It seemed that after the purchase just about every department around us did the same thing. Now we are over saturated with cascades in the area. An in house air compressor would still be a good thing to have, but to take up that space and add that cost is something that yu have the luxury to opt out of.

[JAD622 40]

There are many things to consider when specifying a rig with a cascade system. Weight distribution and space are your primary concerns. There are also certain NFPA safety guidelines to be considered. Finally and most importantly, is there enough reason to justify the expense.