Is it 10-75 or a "working fire"?

[hudson144 150]

it appears that many departments that work together frequently under the mutual aid plan have different codes for incidents or don't use codes at all. It might be a good time to get on the same page and straighten out some communications problems.Is 10-75 listed on the county codes or is it just something that is being transmitted because it is used in NYC? EG: a 10-29 in yonkers is a building fire but a 10-29 in MV is food on the stove. A little confusion possibly if you are in other areas covering !

[BFD1054 1,552]

hudson...great topic, concerns and comments! The last time i saw the county 10-Codes, 10-75 was on there as "working fire." However, i can't seem to find the 10-codes on the DES website at this time.

As far as confusion, i definately agree. With Yonkers & Mount Vernon neighboring one-another and working together quite often, i could see how their codes would be confusing. The different meaning of a 10-29 for both cities is quite interesting, i never knew the meaning for MVFD.

In Buchanan (Tri-Village), we have entered a 10-75 assignent into the CAD system at 60-Control. I know Montrose has the same, as does Croton, however i am unsure about Verplanck. This is how it works; an officer (or first unit on scene) reports a working fire. All they then have to do is transmit a 10-75 and 60-Control then dispatches the appropriate departments/apparatus. For example, if a "10-75" is transmitted in Buchanan, 60 will re-tone Buchanan for a working fire, as well as dispatch Croton's FASTeam & Montrose TL8 to the scene, as well as hold Verplanck as the covering agency. In Montrose, a "10-75" transmission will summons the response of Buchanan Utility-12 & Croton's FASTeam to the scene. It makes the IC's job much easier, rather than spitting out all the requests for m/a.

I do agree however, that this system still has some loose ends and should have every department on the same page.

[hudson144 150]

Having a plan such as a 10-75 plan is great however my thought in the fire service is "circumstances dictate actions" in other words the IC needs to call the shots as they happen,if you need a certain mutual aid co. there then you need to call for it. you can't or should'nt press a button and have all this mutual aid responding in for no reason. this is done quite often throughout the county nad needs to be adjusted. A situation needs to be dealt with as things happen. the incident is either going to be dealt with or get worse. By calling things in automatically i can see some Incidents getting confusing to the point that the IC will or can be overfwhelmed.I know that I will hear the term better safe than sorry or you can always turn them around but the real point is to handle the incident by proper size up and deploy your forces as needed or shall we say when needed!!!

[firecapt32 282]

heres my 2 cents

lets all go back to sensable common terms and plain english language. the time has come to stop discuising things... if its a working fire--- tell every one-if its food you need tell every one. I believe that the codes were created so that the general public didnt know what was going on. well that time has come and gone. lets not confuse any one any more if its a car fire tell every one. we will all be better off.

[Guest]

my 2 cents 10-75 , its quick , its easy , gets extra engine , truck , relocaters , and a bus , etc...or what ever else is in his pre plan

[Guest EMSCOMM80]

What is wrong with starting out mutual aid apparatus if there is even a remote possibility that you may need them? Think about how long it takes for mutual aid units to assemble, respond, and set up. Especially with FAS Team and Tanker operations! I would rather have the units assembling or enroute…and turn them around because I don’t need them instead of requiring their assistance and waiting the additional time for them to respond.

Additionally, some departments realize they need assistance with manpower during the day. Why not at least get them started, rather then have a firefighter get hurt because he/she didn’t have the manpower they needed?

[Remember585 815]

Several good points - on a topic that will probably be discussed 10 years from now.

By definition, a 10-75 should mean an "all-hands" event. It shouldn't be limited to a working fire. For example, Departments I've heard have said "10-75" just to notify dispatch that all units on scene are committed, and in some cases it brings additional resources to the scene.

Like BFD said, having a pre-planned assignment is a good thing for those days when the new Lt. is the IC, and is so overwhelmed with what is going on that they forget to call for certain things.

Some Departments have pre-plans for posible fires - not just those that are confirmed. Our FD (Croton) has a set "Working fire" policy at 60 Control that will bring a FAST, Cascade and additional EMS unit in hydrant areas, and 3 Tankers in the non-hydrant areas. It came in handy with our July 18th fire - even though Command had a "senior moment" and forgot to state what he had. Luckily, 60 Control was on the ball and filled out the assignment for us.

Hudson - I listen to all kinds of Departments (as you probably know) and have to keep a couple of 10-code lists in my work area to have a clue what everyone is talking about. I think that CLEAR-TEXT (Oh no, I said it again!) is the way to go.

Abuse of the wanna-be FDNY lingo is not only getting played out, but it is being misused too often! Be wise with your radio transmissions - don't do what sounds cool, do what people will actually understand.

[CPFD91206 0]

WOW a lot of good points are brought up here. It appears alot of '10-code" usage has migrated from the city to "home" where some of the "metro' firefighters reside. Through time as these guys became active in their local vfd's and rose up through the ranks and were IC's giving progress reports NATURALLY work jargon

came out. A downfall to this was unless you worked with that IC or knew what that ten code meant you were S.O.L. !

With todays technology in CAD for preplans its far easier on the dispatchers as well as the Officers (incl the most junior officer) to press the mic and just say "BLAH BLAH BLAH is on the scene with a active fire give me a 2nd alarm". Any officer who takes the time to develop preplans I would presume also notifies his M/A depts of their assignments so when they hear that their neighboring FD has a 2nd alarm they start heading to the firehouse.

Great topic lets keep it going, interested to hear how other FD's operate........

[SteveOFD 176]

Westchester County's 10 Codes can be found at Westchester County 10 Codes

[Guest]

i think one in the same for mkfd. we tell our people to say what you have and tell us what you need. if you understand the 10 codes they are the same ones 60 control tells us to use. the other towns that have thier own codes real defeats the word standardization. who caused the confussion here? 10-75 is something that shouldn't be abused. it holds a code that people react differently too as in get your crews ready on the way to the fire were going to put a little bit of that trainning to use. most important see what you have before you call 10-75 if you don't have flames in visible site see what you have. i've heard 10-75 sent for oilburner malfuntion built up buy the public who see smoke and all hell brakes loose. we have a pre plan for 10-75 wich gets us an ambulance, fast team,the rest of our department apparatus and a relocate to our station 1 of 1 ladder and 1 engine. tones kill our radio communications. it will be great once the new radio system is in place! but you need to train your people to talk on the radio! i think people take talking on the radio for grantit. you have to read and define all the codes make your people understand what there real meaning is! here one for you in plain english engine ### in service. are you responding asks 60 control? yes replies the engine with an attitude if you translate that to 10 codes it's engine### 10-17 not engine ### 10-8. i think theres more confussion now with people trying to use plain english. people that talk on the radio need to be trainned! get you code list ant put it next to your radio and use it as a tool. also the other units that use different codes that work with us need to have copies of our 10 codes so they understand. i think 10-75 or working structure fire is the same thing. say what you have and train your members to use and understand radio communications.

[hudson144 150]

capt 32-if its food that i need don't worry I'll find it! anyway- i see that i started something that brought out alot of valid points. my main point here is to not hit the panic button before you get there.many times the dispatchers will let you know that they have recieved several calls on the incident. ok with the info provided hit the buttons. I still feel that through proper size up and a little thought the IC can keep control of the situation and not allow it to get blown out of proportion. ems- i understand about the fast team/tankers and agree especially with the need of water in some areas.

[dadbo46 50]

I was the officer in a truck years ago and pulled up to a job. I called the dispatcher and said "This fire is out....out the doors and out the window." 'Nuff said.

Plain English sends the message clearly and distinctly to the dispatcher and all fire ground units. Let's cut out the emotion charge of saying "10-75" and simply state "Working Fire."

Edited December 21, 2005 by dadbo46

[HFD750 6]

heres my 2 cents

lets all go back to sensable common terms and plain english language. the time has come to stop discuising things... if its  a working fire--- tell every one-if its food you need tell every one. I believe  that the codes were created so that the general public didnt know what was going on. well that time has come and gone. lets not confuse any one any more if its a car fire tell every one. we will all be better off.

←

Great idea!! I've been sayin that for years and thats what I use on the radio. If it's a fire in the basement it's not a "10-75" it's a fire in the basement.

[firecapt32 282]

thanks for aggreeing HFD750 it only seems reasonable to use the english language. working fire--fillout the asigement is plain and simple-- give me a second alarm simple enough--- it shoujd work fine unless we in the servive find some way to f*** it up

[BFD1054 1,552]

Capt...something get f***ed up in the fire service? No way lol!

As i stated, i believe the whole "10-75" things has its pro's, but definately needs to be worked on a bit.

Personally, i'd rather use plain talk/english like some of you have said.

Capt, maybe you can answer this (or someone from 60); I thought the county wanted agencies to start using plain talk, am i mistaken?

[HFD750 6]

I thought so too.

[Guest]

the county only recommended plain english from i believe n.i.m.s. now i heard they want 10 codes. the answer is simple we need to train people no matter what format, we train for everything else. the county needs to make up its mind because everyone has their own oppinion and i respect your oppinions they both work under certain circumstances. if you get the wrong person talking on the radio you can have an even bigger problem than just a fire. this is a great topic hopefully there is a soulution in the near future. i also agree with proper size up that is also a good key to the strategy for putting the fire out safely. but i highly recomend not to call the shots on the run. the general public doesn't know if it's a broken radiator hose or a carfire in the making. the general public also doesn't know an oilburner malfuntion from a basement fire. a few weeks ago mt. kisco had a trench colapse call, 60 called the ic back while still enroute and said the victim was out so he cancelled f.d. response. it was true he was out. out of the ruble but still in the trench. he was busted up alitle but nobody expected a secondary collapse wich happened. as the ic arrived he had to redispatch f.d. imagine the time that was lost. so i found its better to be on scene to call the shots than let the public or 60 tell you info and i'm not knocking 60 in any way they pass on good information but if you don't know the qualifications of the reporter on scene the consequences could be bad.

Edited December 22, 2005 by mrbolz

[ajsbear 11]

mrbolz;---the solution, once dispatched, you go..period. Just like an automatic alarm. How many times did the owner or alarm company call back to say it was set off by accident. we still respond. Once an alarm is called it you respond. It's then up to the first arriving officer to call the shots. Not the dispatcher, not a a civillian, no one. Sorry if 60 takes offense. I've never seen an automatic alarm response cancelled.

[firecapt32 282]

I do believe the NIMS calls for plain english transmission to control.

BFD I know your joking but you know as well as I do that we can f*** up a free lunch.

language such as "give me a second alarm" is just as popwerfull. I can only assume--(I hate to do that) that every department knows what happens on a second or third alarm., I'm sure that control has the information on mutual aid and who responds to where.

"2461 to 60 control I'm on location at 33 MainStreet, we have a working fire, can I have a second alarm to this location"

pertty simple huh

sorry 2461 for the location I dont want to see that place burn either

but you get the point

have a safe holiday everyone

remember your training and its the citizens we protect not the egos we have that make us better firefighters

[dougeng41 1]

NIMS did call for the use of plain language in all transmissions especially when dealing with multiple units from different agencies. Recently though, they have changed their minds to some extent. The police agencies made an uproar over the use of plain language. They feel that they should still have the ability to hide certain transmissions from prying ears. As far as I know, NIMS intergration center has changed their mind to some extent as for allowing the use of some type of code system for certain situations. Think about it who wants to be anouncing to the world I have dead victims or found certain evidence.

[Guest]

in mt kisco we or shall i say i will start out saying 10-75 to alert responders there is a actual fire. with flames through a window or two or through the roof we will start out by saying 10-75 to get the fast dispatched and our dept. redispatched then after the tones finish we can give a good size up in plain english. if its just smoke showing i say just that then maybe an upgrade in alarm response but for the most part we end up useing plain english. our incoming units are directed on a fireground frequincy. hopefully the new county radio system will solve this problem because we end up cutting our throat with redispatching. in essance we only end up useing 6 codes anyway, 10-2, 10-4, 10-8, 10-17, 10-19, & 10-75 but its my option to say 10-75 and i think most people know what 10-75 is anyway. people that don't know what 10-75 is like senior members or probies should be educated to use both because we still have the option.

and by the way happy hollidays to all. please be safe!

and ajsbear i agree 100% but i was out ranked that day by 2 other chiefs.

Edited December 23, 2005 by mrbolz