NYS Vol FFs need more training

[firecapt32 282]

blkcloud again you have hit the nail on the head-- it seems though that some departments are still stuck passing things on from chief to chief and year to year. we have to break the chain-- some departments are circiling the drain just spinning their wheels.

some departments are very progressive--- here though and I knowe some of you will think i'm crazy but what the hell

the vol organizations need to be unionzied---- In the firefighters union I.A.F.F. the bigger unions help the smaller ones. the ones that are in the forfront help bring the other ones up to them so that every one is on the same page and fighting for the same things.

question is how do you bring a department up to meet the requirements of todays modern firefightering techinques?? big truck certinaly dont do it!!

Its training training training.

just my thoughts dont come down too hard on me please im very sensitive

[Guest]

Yes, more needs to be done. However, at the county level the concern is just not there. Our wonderful legislators and executive are too busy pointing fingers at eachother and raising their own salaries. I feel there is no point in expecting anything from the county any time soon. I also feel that raising the standards in terms of hours spent in training will definitely turn people away. I know I almost gave up b/c it took me 8mos to get into a FFI. My solution is two fold: one, everyone should get their asses into better physical shape....no doubt. Gyms like the one in my area should be held accountable to giving discounts to Volunteers...not just career guys. Two, individual departments should conduct consistent, regular drills. I find some of my drills to be some of the most valuable training i have ever had. it's a shame a good drill only happens every once in a while. Obviously the reason for this is money. Maybe, some of the state money for training could be allotted to individual departments so long as they use it appropriately. Less dinners and outings wouldn't hurt.....i enjoy the "good" drills far more than the food and events...

[firecapt32 282]

sfd-- go back to your department --- see how much money is in the coffers--- set aside some money for training. mabey it wont be much but mabey it will be enough to cover costs of a trip to the State Fire Academy for a course that cant be conducted here in Westchester.

firefighter 1 is being offered every month in Westchester in some form or another. Thats more then any other County in the state so it's hard to blame the County on that one. The County is also moving foward to improve the training center-- so look for improvments soon.

[Guest]

blkcloud  again  you have  hit the nail on the head-- it  seems though  that some departments are still stuck passing things on from chief to chief and year to year. we have to break the chain-- some departments are circiling the drain  just spinning their wheels.

some departments are very progressive--- here  though and I knowe some of you will think i'm crazy  but  what the hell

the vol organizations need to be unionzied---- In the firefighters union I.A.F.F. the bigger unions help the smaller ones. the ones that are in the forfront help bring the other ones up to them so that every one is on the same page and fighting for the same things.

question is  how do you  bring a department up to meet the requirements of todays modern firefightering techinques?? big truck certinaly dont do it!!

Its training training training.

just my thoughts    dont  come down too hard on me please im very sensitive

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don't be fooled by the IAFF...they're not the answer...I don't see them working to make training better for all firemen, just their locals that pay most. If they were they would not teach paid ff's how to fight with vollies..anyway...way off topic...but you are right in one sense...let the active volunteers make decisions, not just old ex-active members and chiefs that haven't taken done training in years...

[Guest 786XP]

don't be fooled by the IAFF...they're not the answer...I don't see them working to make training better for all firemen, just their locals that pay most. If they were they would not teach paid ff's how to fight with vollies..anyway...way off topic...but you are right in one sense...let the active volunteers make decisions, not just old ex-active members and chiefs that haven't taken done training in years...

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Well it is good to see that Mr. Blkcloud is now the area's leading expert on the IAFF and the services that they provide to their members.

Son, unless you work for the IAFF's Health and Safety Department, please do not try and speak about the IAFF's training priorities. Your feeble attempt at a position is so far off base it clearly demonstrates a complete lack of ANY factual knowledge regarding this subject.

Since you do not see the IAFF "making training better for all firemen (perhaps Fire Fighter is a more appropriate term in 2006)", then you must have missed one of the numerous Health and Safety seminars that the IAFF conducts every 2 years or one of the numerous local seminars that the IAFF conducts throughout the year.

When you suggest that they IAFF's safety commitment is solely to their members, you may want to reference the following:

Every take HAZMAT training? Most likely the training that you received was or was based upon the IAFF's HAZMAT training program (the curriculum is taught to ALL Fire Fighters).

SAFER ACT - IAFF initiative to allow federal funding so Fire Departments can hire more FFs (this includes volunteer departments and also allows funding for volunteer recruitment/retention)

The FIRE ACT - Heavily supported and lobbied by the IAFF (now 75% of all Fire Act funding must be allocated to volunteer fire departments)

When SCOTT air-packs were failing in numerous fire departments across the country, the IAFF went public and pressured SCOTT to fix the problems (there are more SCOTT SCBAs in service in volunteer departments then career).

Federal PSOB benefits (Public Safety Officer Benefit), lobbied by the IAFF to increase to the current $250K + level and payable to the family within 30 days (this applies to ALL fire fighters).

The list can go on for awhile, but I think my point has been made.

Oh, one other thing. Can you give me the time and place of the IAFF seminar where they "they (the IAFF) teach paid FFs how to fight with vollies"?

I have been to numerous IAFF seminars, conferences, and conventions all over this country and I have yet to see that class offered on the agenda. Perhaps I missed it, since you obviously have knowledge of this, please enlighten us.

I would recommend that you stay "on-subject" and leave the IAFF bashing out of it.

Edited January 24, 2006 by 786XP

[ex-commish 490]

don't be fooled by the IAFF...they're not the answer...I don't see them working to make training better for all firemen, just their locals that pay most. If they were they would not teach paid ff's how to fight with vollies..anyway...way off topic...but you are right in one sense...let the active volunteers make decisions, not just old ex-active members and chiefs that haven't taken done training in years...

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I can not comment on the IAFF being I am from the volunteer ranks. Volunteer firefighters and represented by county, state, and national organizations. What I have found being members of three such organizations is while they talk about training and the need for it in many cases they were the forerunners in fighting mandatory standards which was very well known in the late 70's when FASNY fought to block the minimum 229 hour basic training program that would of applied to all firefighters....not just career. Who won here? FASNY perhaps but not the firefighters they represent.

I think the training attitude starts at home, just like raising a family. If your leadership has a lapsy-dazy attitude than so will most of the members. We ( fire service leaders) have to settle for nothing but the best for our people. We may make a few enemies ( I have) but that's ok as I rather have my enemies alive and healthy.

I feel we are all on target here on this issue. If any type of topic deserves any time and effort it is this one.

Andy Mancusi

Chief

Hawthorne FD

I gotta keep up with Firecapt......

[firecapt32 282]

glad to see things are picking up so to speak--- I do have to agree with 786 on this point the I.A.F.F. has been the leader for firefighters for a long time.

chief Mancusi is right F.A.S.N.Y. has held up the volunteer service for a long time here in New York.

Lets move in the same direction TRAINING our firefighters , bringing all firefighter up to the same standards.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Oh boy...guess I better get my .02 worth.

First, how do we hold the volunteer fire service accountable for training on the same level as career?

You just do it. People will rise to the expectations that are placed upon them. Do we live in a vacuum here in NY? Many other states have equal requirements for career and volunteer firefighters, so why not here? Want some real answers, get rid of bars in firehouses, to get rid of the social aspect which is killing some departments. If you had to wait 8 months to get into a FF 1 course, that's not just on the county. Also its not the end of the world, some other places not just in NY but other states can wait a year or more. There are plenty of other things you can and need to learn on a department level that will aid you and your department also.

As far as the comment on the IAFF. Its funny, I never had a class on how to fight with volunteers. So your way off base there my man. Don't do anything for all firefighters, again your talking out of your a$$. The IAFF is heavily involved in addition to all that has been said, in reducing FF fatalities every year with their LODD investigations and lobbying in regard to recommendations made during and after NIOSH investigations. They also don't waste time arguing for less training, nor worrying about who has what colored lights on their official vehicles, like some other organizations I once was a member of, when they should be getting funding and laws requiring NIMS usage, the proper way. Radio systems that work and funding to assist departments on equipment, how about getting a TIC in every department in the state and so on.

[firecapt32 282]

I knew if I waited long enough ALS would show up here-- and hes worth the wait.

how about trying this-- Intense firetraing for Volunteers---4 week summer course to include ff1-ff2- rtb- safety survival. in sence a fire academy for the volunter service.

Is it feasable--- I dont know is it worth looking into??you be the judge.

Never say your training let you down!!!!!!

Andy you gotta get out more

[ex-commish 490]

I knew if I waited long enough ALS  would show up here-- and hes worth the wait.

how about trying this-- Intense firetraing for Volunteers---4 week summer course to include ff1-ff2- rtb- safety survival. in sence a fire academy  for the volunter service.

Is it feasable--- I dont know  is it worth looking into??you be the judge.

Never say your training let you down!!!!!!

Andy you gotta get out more

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Hopefully the cast comes off Monday and I can get out more..

ALS as usual brings up some very good points which are worth alot more than 2 cents. I think the idea of an academy is a good idea in fact I myself would love to be involved with running it. The only problem I see is people getting time off to do it so perhaps doing it on a part time basis would be better but I bet you would get a good response to a four week academy. Why not try both....

Andy Mancusi

Chief

Hawthorne FD

[Guest]

the statement that they teach how to fight w/ vollies comes from a IAFF pamphlet that circulated last year called "10 responses to volunteer lies" or something to that respect. And yes I did take the IAFF Hazmat course...there is no doubt that they have the money to put on these programs (my FirePac funds alone certainly help)...my point was about union reps making conscious efforts to keep vollies from training with paid men (which would help both) and keeping other union members from helping to train vollies. I understand job sercurity but that is ridiculous. I guess I should not have lumped the IAFF all together, but I am trying not to name locals...my point is that in order to keep each other safe we have to share the knowledge we have, no matter whether we receive a check or just personal satisfaction and a good meal every once in a while...so take a breath and relax...believe it or not we are on the same team

[Guest]

Lets face it times have changed. With the great demand on people to get food on the table and raise a family this day, forget about volunteering. Gee I wonder why they are dwindling so quickly. Lets talk NYS training. I think it is a joke to began with. Yes there are some good classes out there, but I belive we are going about it the wrong way. We should be teaching NATIONAL STANDARDS PERIOD. Any paid dept in nys that isn't is a fool.The problem with this is the huge demand on the volunteers. This is why they will be no longer in years to come. You can't expect the white collar workers that are moving in and buying these $400,000 homes, and are driving to nyc for work to volunteer...It isn't going to happen. Those workers and home owners should get quick and profess fire/ems service at there door. The are paying tax payers correct? Yes the fire protection taxes will climb, but if they are buying a 400,000 homes I don't think they will care....

This is just a eye opening we all know is coming. More years of higher training standards will force more vols out..thus making paid/combo depts all across NYS..

[ex-commish 490]

Yes the fire protection taxes will climb, but if they are buying a 400,000 homes I don't think they will care....

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Please tell me where there are 400,000 homes??? Are they handyman specials??

Andy Mancusi

Chief

Hawthorne FD

[Guest]

Please tell me where there are 400,000 homes??? Are they handyman specials??

Andy Mancusi

Chief

Hawthorne FD

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LOL I hear ya sick isn't it

[ajsbear 11]

LOL I hear ya sick isn't it

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In the northen area's. A few fixer uppers in Lake Peekskill and the eastern end, one of the little lake coops in North Salem I beleive. Looked at 2 as an investment a year ago.

[Irons 0]

LETS NOT FORGET ABOUT THE NYS PROFESSIONAL FIREFIGHTERS NEED MORE TRAINING AND BETTER FITNESS. GRANT IT ALL FF's SHOULD TRAIN THE SAME, AND HOPEFULLY THE PROBATIONARY FFS TRAINING THE CAREER SIDES RECEIVE IS NOT THE LAST OF THE TRAINING AND FITNESS. THEY SHOULD BE GUARDED AND MAINTAINED TO THESE STRICT STANDARDS EVERY DAY OF THEIR PROFESSIONAL CAREER. WHETHER THEY DO 1 RUN A TOUR or 10, THEY HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO PROMPTLY RESPOND IN GOOD PHYSICAL CONDITION AND PROPERLY FINE TUNED IN THEIR FIELD.

THOSE WHO WORK IN FIRE DEPARTMENTS WHERE FIRES ARE EVEN LESS COMMON OWE IT TO THEIR COMMUNITIES TO EVEN TRAIN MORE AND MORE AND MORE.

[Guest]

well said Irons

[Guest]

I think NY should up the training standards. I have been a volly in NY for 11 years and now I am a career FF in GA and the standards are much higher. The FF1 class I had to take was 152 hours and on top of that my dept requires me to meet 120 in house training hours plus 24 hours of training throught the fire acadamy to keep my job. NY has alot of good traing classes but more hours should be required of the volunteers. No matter if your a career FF or a volunteer, your still a FF and we all do the same job and can be injuryed or killed doing what we love. I have seen over the years these young guys and some older come into the firehouse and sit on there rears, esp after 9/11, just so they can say there a FF. They dont want to train and if they do they complain about it and say " god im only a volunteer" well guess what, get the hell out of the profession. Yeah you might only be a volunteer but other peoples lives depend on you as a FF. There is no room for slackers in the fire service no matter if your paid or volunteer, so if you want to slack off and not train or show up whenever you feel like it just so you can tell the girls im a FF, I have the perfect job for you, the next time were fighting a fire you can pour my coffee and make my sandwich!!!! Like I said before NY has some good training but the state should require more hours of training and the individual fire departments should want to train there people to the highest quality they can and make there people the most educated so they can do there jobs the best and everyone goes home when there done and the departments should weed out all the slackers and send them packing. I understand that times are changing and most people arent home long enough to volunteer in there local fire dept, but until your dept goes paid, you still need to train train train. Most departments have a retirement now so you cant say your not getting anything. It all comes down to this, even though the state doesnt require alot of hours of training, take it upon yourself to get as much training as you possibly can. It cant hurt you to take as many classes you possibly can it will only make you a better FF, paid or volly. Take training into you own hands. If the state doesnt require it, make yourself require it. As long as you meet the minimum state requirements, they cant say a word to you for going above and beyond what the state says. Remember you train for your life and your brothers and sisters around you!!

[Guest]

i think physical fitness is an important benefit to the firefighters and the departments. it reduces stress and puts ff in better shape, less injuries and a better mindset. as i sit here getting fatter i tried to get a physical fitness program and failed but we can try again. but we do also have a problem with under staffing running to alarms with under trainned personel and not enough of the older trainned personel to watch over the rookies. the problem is making people spend the monies we have allocated! make a health program, we are expected to take a physical every year or so depending on your, age help us help you! the benefits to the community will be much greater. its expensive to have volunteers with great bennefits but more expensive to have paid staffing. but i think the state needs to realize that everything is increasing, runs, trainnings, meetings, responsabilities, taxes, cost of living people need to do something for those who put their lives on the line day in and day out who do it for free otherwise it's enevitable that the vollies will soon disappear.