Would you turn around if your brass told you ?

**HCFRFF** · December 12, 2003

Firefighters Called Back From Scene of House Fire
It's your first instinct. When there's a house fire in your neighborhood, you call 9-1-1. But when some Horry County residents did that Wednesday night, they were stunned to see a fire truck pull onto their road and then turn around and leave.
Lots of ashes and a melted chair is all that's left of the home on Oyster Lane. But that's okay with family members. The Wednesday night fire was intentionally set because the house had already been damaged by a previous fire. Wilhemina Scott lives in the neighborhood and said, "So they finally decided to just kind of like burn the rest of it, and the fire just got big." When it got out of control neighbors called 9-1-1. Lisa Bourcier is the Spokesperson for Horry County. "When the citizens started to call in, concerning this structure fire, what pops on a 9-1-1 screen is that actual person who's calling their address and their phone number, which was actually in the city limits of North Myrtle Beach." So the North Myrtle Beach City Fire Department initially responded. But when the department discovered that the house on fire was outside their limits in Horry County neighbors say they saw fire crews turn around. According to Cory Williams, "And they turned around to the top of the road and went back down the road and did not come here."
North Myrtle Beach Fire Chief Tom Barstow says the decision to call crews from the scene was based on several factors. One; Dispatch learned the house was actually in the county's area and two; an officer on scene verified no one was in the house. According to Barstow, "No electricity, no power on it, no exposures where any other buildings were, you know endangered. Nobody's life was endangered so we notified the county." Chief Barstow says the county responded very promptly, within about five minutes, and the outcome of the fire would not have changed. "No, from the initial reports of on-scene personnel, it was totally involved. There was no saving the structure whatsoever." Still, the people who live nearby are upset, saying their neighborhood is being disregarded. Williams said, "A fire is a fire, if or if not somebody was in there. They don't know. We all didn't know so."
There is some resolution to this issue. Chief Barstow says the City Fire Department will continue to honor it's previous contract and provide fire coverage to that area until a new contract with the county can be agreed upon. As for whether or not it was legal to set fire to the house, the Department of Health and Environmental Control says it doesn't issue permits to burn a house. So it would be considered a violation of an open burning law. DHEC is following up with Horry County.
http://www.wpde.com/news/viewarticle.asp?view=107

2024-11-22T01:23:40Z

Wow, thats pretty bad. At some point I'm sure we've all operated in someone elses district. So what, it was close to the line and dispatch got it as close as possible. I always thought the expectation was that you go to work and notify the proper dept so they may respond accordingly. You certainly don't turn around I don't think. How was that Chief so sure that no one was inside. How did he know there were no exposure problems. Because of what people were telling the dispatch? Huh.......do they turn around on the way to automatic alarms if the alarm company calls back and says its false?

**llm60** · May 29, 2005

I dont understand why they would turn around?? If I pulled up and saw a house fully involved, I dont care where it was I would go to work.

**TRUCK6018** · November 19, 2003

This is a no brainer. Do what you have to do until the proper department arrives. If they want you to pack it up, so be it. The last thing you should do is turn around by orders of someone not even there. Last time I checked, the proper IC is the highest ranking officer (or first arriving vehicle) on scene.

The public doesn't care about district boundaries. If they see a first arriving vehicle turn around, no matter whose it is, it's bad for business.

2024-11-22T01:23:40Z

Imagine if you were responding to a reported vehicle fire on the Hutch and, upon arrival you saw that:

1. you were 1st on the scene,

2. vehicle was fully involved

3. vehicle occupants were standing on the grass saying no one remained in vehicle and

4. location just happened to be 300 yards inside another Dept's jurisdiction.

Would you:

get to work

assume that since vehicle is total loss anyway, why waste tank water, let it burn out, call for the wrecker and go back to quarters.

assume traffic flow control and wait for the arrival of the other Dept's response.

Call me crazy, but something tells me all of us would get to work !!!!!

Edited December 4, 2005 by hoss49

**Remember585** · November 16, 2003

This past Summer, we were dispatched on Route 9 for a report of a rollover MVA south of the district line. While responding, I was advised from 60 Control that it may be over the line. As the Officer in Charge of our Department, I had our Engine (which I was on) continue in and 60 dispatched the appropriate agencies.

For once, my choice paid off. When we arrived we found a single car rollover with one patient ejected. The quick actions of the EMTs in my crew and on scene saved this person's life. When the neighboring Chief arrived, I quickly turned Command over to him and offered our assistance until we were released.

So my point is this....who cares if you piss in someone's cereal? So long as the fire gets put out or the people in need are saved, does it matter which agency does it? In the end, I am sure we'd all agree that helping those in need is our #1 priority, even if we step over our territorial lines.

**dadbo46** · July 1, 2005

I hope that there is no thinking of disobeying an oficer's order. Just do what the oficer tells you to do. Let the white hats sort out and defend their decision.

2024-11-22T01:23:40Z

GREAT point remeber 585 we are here for the public sometimes it seems like we as emergency services tend to forget that. Yeah we all want a piece of the action especially if its in our district but if rigs or personal are already responding keep them rolling in hey you might even need thier assistance you can utilize them as a fast or rigs to stand by. Were all brothers doing the samething does it matter where i think not!

**BFD1054** · November 16, 2003

Remember585....I couldn't have said it better myself bro! Our job (as firefighters, EMT's or police officers) is to protect life & property, bottom line!

When i was riding with Peekskill EMS, we were returning from Phelps and rolled up on a multi-vehicle, multi-patient mva at Highland & Croton Ave. in Ossining. Did we drive by and just call OVAC....? Hell no, we stopped and helped OVAC & the other m/a EMS agencies until our services were no longer needed! That is what emergency services is all about.

This story absolutely blew my mind when i read it! I was always taught that if you have proper training and roll up on an accident (or are in a firetruck & roll up on a structure fire), you must stop & render aid if possible. To be called to a structure fire, roll up & its fully involved and just turn around because its not in your 1st-due area? WTF? That is absolutely absurd! I hope that the homeowner considers suing the balls off of the fire district!

Personally, if an officer told me & my crew to stand down from something like that, i think i'd tell him to go scratch and deal with the consequences later!

**COMMANDCHIEF** · February 19, 2004

I have to agree with Dadbo46 on this one. Obedience to orders is the corner stone of any paramilitary organization. I'm not saying that I agree with the Chief in this particular case, but I'm going to listen to him. If there is a problem, it can be delt with later on.

I know there is going to be a flood of "what if's" and "I thinks" on this one. But the bottom line is the professional will learn to take orders and carry them out. Self discipline is one the the hardest traints to maintain and is often the diffrence between the professional and the amature. Be that professional!!!

**ONLOCATION** · May 28, 2005

This Topic could also bring up another interesting topic of when are Dual Responses needed to adequately protect your district. Like in the event of your station being so far away from the edge of you district line that a dual response from another closer department would be a good idea to better serve your citizens. Like if it takes 8-12 mins. for a Deparment to respond to the edge of there district for a MVA and another deparments station is literality down the street from the incident and. Just like SQUADCo. 119 and COMMANDCHIEF stats Profesionalism and the Public is what its about.

When it all comes down to it just do what is Right, in the Best interest of the People you are protecting.

**TRUCK6018** · November 19, 2003

I re-read the story and noticed a few things worth pointing out for clarification.

Even though the chief was the one speaking to the press (probably as PIO), the article never says he ordered his units to stand down. What the chief is quoted in saying is " an officer on scene verified no one was in the house".

As dadbo and commandchief stated, if an order's given, you follow it.

It would not be proper for an officer to give an order to return if none of the information is verified.

**HCFRFF** · December 12, 2003

Guys this is over money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! North Myrtle Beach FD is contracted by Horry County Fire/Rescue to cover some areas that they are alot closer to then a county station. The contract went up and NMBFD asked for more money and the contract hasnt been settleed yet. I beleive it was the week before NMBFD went to the same house when it caught fire the first time.

About being professional- To listen to your commanding officer who isnt on scene yet and they tell you to turn around DO NOT GO IN TO THE SCENE and you know its a workin fire..... maybe it was a family members house of MOS maybe it was MOS house. I thought we are here to protect and serve?

Edited December 4, 2005 by HCFRFF

**TRUCK6018** · November 19, 2003

These actions being taken over money makes it all the worse. Let the bean counters worry about the money, let the firefighters do their job.

**HCFRFF** · December 12, 2003

NMB fire crews to serve county for 'goodwill'

by Paul Nelson of The Sun

NORTH MYRTLE BEACH - North Myrtle Beach Fire Chief Tom Barstow says that as a "goodwill gesture," his department resumed coverage Thursday of certain unincorporated sections of Horry County with the expectations that their fire-services contract with the county will soon be renewed.

On Wednesday, it was Barstow who called off fire crews as they were nearing a blaze at 1399 Oyster Lane after a city public safety officer arrived on the scene before the trucks and notified Barstow that the fire was in a part of the county their department had stopped covering Nov. 9 after failed contract talks with the county.

No injuries were reported in the Oyster Lane fire. The residential structure, the site of another fire in October, was heavily damaged. Barstow said the department handled the earlier fire, which was sparked by an electrical problem.

This time it appeared to be a controlled burn that grew out of hand, officials said.

The chief said North Myrtle Beach officials on Friday morning submitted a contract proposal to their counterparts in the county. He said he was optimistic a deal would be in place soon.

Horry County spokeswoman Lisa Bourcier confirmed Friday that the county had received the form and said she expects the matter to be resolved sometime next week.

She said the county would be "looking at re-drawing lines" and the area the contract covers.

Under the old contract, North Myrtle Beach received $40,000 annually to handle fire calls from roughly 48th Avenue South to the Cherry Grove Inlet, which includes parcels behind Grand Strand Airport, U.S. 17 and from Little River Neck Road to Tilghman Point, officials said.

That contract expired Aug. 31. On Sept. 15, Bourcier said, the county got a letter alerting them that the city was now charging $58,000, an increase Barstow attributed to a countywide property reassessment. By then, Bourcier said, the county already had earmarked its money for the budget year.

Barstow said part of the problem with Wednesday's fire was that the caller could not give the dispatcher a specific street location, which was crucial because Oyster Lane is sandwiched between city streets.

"It was a misunderstanding and lack of information from the initial caller that led to the confusion," he said.

Barstow noted that if the county had needed assistance Wednesday, North Myrtle Beach firefighters would have returned to the scene because of their mutual-aid agreement. He said the mix-up is being blown out of proportion.

"There's no hard feelings," he said. "It was just a contract situation that hadn't been resolved."

**HCFRFF** · December 12, 2003