Ladder Vs. Tower Ladder

[Guest]

Approximately how much higher is an average tower ladder higher than an average regular ladder?

[ny10570 745]

None. There is no specified diffference between the two. The difference comes from a tower ladder having a platform mounted to the end of the ladder. Actually you will usually find "sticks" (straight ladders) longer than towers since there is less weight at the tip and you can fit more ladder into the same amount of space.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Straight stick ladders are measured fully extended from the base of the ladder to the tip. Tower Ladders or Ladder towers are measured fully extended by working height. Working height is to the top bar of a tower basket to the ground. It is possible that a tower's boom may be 100 feet long fully extended but only has a working heigh of 95 feet. If you have the NFPA essensials manual, it bereifly explains this in the ladder section or you can check the NFPA 1901 guide to apparatus.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Straight stick ladders are measured fully extended from the base of the ladder to the tip.  Tower Ladders or Ladder towers are measured fully extended by working height.  Working height is to the top bar of a tower basket to the ground.  It is possible that a tower's boom may be 100 feet long fully extended but only has a working heigh of 95 feet.  If you have the NFPA essensials manual, it bereifly explains this in the ladder section or you can check the NFPA 1901 guide to apparatus.

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I hit enter too soon. There is a major difference in platforms and sticks. Platforms may be able to reach as far but are not as high.

[antiquefirelt 994]

I hit enter too soon.  There is a major difference in platforms and sticks.  Platforms may be able to reach as far but are not as high.

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Not necissarily true. As a stick is measured from the tip to the ground and the platform is measured fromthe top rail to the ground. Both, if as stated are 100' than thats where the measurement is to. Then consider that to work off a 100' stick you'd have to lay in the ladder and maybe be able to reach out the length ouf your arms. In the tower platform you're standing on a floor that is no further than 42" from the top rail. Therefore you truly have greater working height as measured by the ability of the firefighter to reach up or out. Unless you're shoulders are at the 42" rail hieght, like my old D/C. (Dorf-On fire)

[ajsbear 11]

Hey antiquefirelt, I had one of DC's back then too. I think he just made the height requirement.

[IzzyEng4 427]

antiquefirelt, then is the NFPA guideline wrong then??? If so they have been teaching this wrong for at least 15 years I have been in the fire service. All the ladder operators and manufacuters have always said that a stick is measured by length of the ladder, not tip to ground. If you really think about it, then a 105 ft Rearmount would actully be 5 to 7 feet longer if it was straight up. Everyone that I have asked says it's from the tip to the base at the turntable.

Plus to we had Mike Wilbur from FDNY up here a few years ago for an aerial class and he said the same thing. So who's right? I need to know now

[antiquefirelt 994]

Izzy:

I'm pretty certain that NFPA 1901 says a mstick is measured from the top rung to the ground at full elevation and extension ands a tower from the ground to the top of the rail. I'll check the 'puter tomorrow if I remember (NFPA online). I'll be meeting with Mike Wilbur Sunday or Monday in Ephrata, PA. He's meeting us at the ALF aerail plant to do our pre-build conference. I'll ask him too, he's a great guy!

[IzzyEng4 427]

Ant.... Sorry I meant NFPA1904 standard for aerial apparatus my bad there. Let me know. Thank you.

Also my essentials book - 3rd Edition qoutes "The fully extended length, also refered to as the working height, of North American made aerial ladders is 50 to 135 feet." (I left out the length in meters)

[antiquefirelt 994]

OK. Finally back from vacation, time to pay some bills. Awesome trip to the ALF plant in Ephrata, got to see a few rigs from the NY-NJ area. Summit, NJ 100' midmount, 100' stick from Long Island and a few Buffalo RM Towers. Plenty of tillers for the Left Coast.

On the rated height debate: here's the NFPA definitions fromt he latest (June 2005 meeting) CD:

20.2.2 The rated vertical height of an aerial ladder shall be at least 50 ft (15 m) and shall be measured in a vertical plane with the ladder at maximum elevation and extension from the outermost rung of the outermost fly section to the ground.

20.7.2 The rated vertical height of the elevating platform shall be measured in a vertical plane from the top surface of the platform handrail to the ground, with the platform raised to its position of maximum elevation.

Basically except for where they're measured from, rated height is rated height. Length is measured fromt he center of the turntable, to the outermost point. This way either a stick or a tower will have less reach than height than beceause of the difference betweent he ground and the turntable - 5-7 ft.

By the way- Mike Wilbur was classic Mike. Telling the ALF guys some of the stupid stuff they do (not just ALF- even Peirce) and making them change ot for our truck.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Cool Thanks

Yah Mike was classic Mike up here to about 3 years ago. But you know what he brought a lot of valid points up with alot of trucks, not just aerials. He's got a wealth of knowledge.

Thanks again

[Guest NewRo-L12]

There is no big difference between the 2. The only difference between the 2 is that a Tower Ladder has a bucket at the end of it.

[Guest]

There is no big difference between the  2. The only difference between the 2 is that a Tower Ladder has a bucket at the end of it.

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Yeah, We know boobie, haha. But was anserwed already in the other posts.

Edited February 9, 2006 by N.R.F.D.~TL-11

[Guest]

I haven't seen many towers taller than aerials...not in a while at least...obviously some of these other guys can answer better, but these days you don't see many 110' Towers...too big for crowded city streets and too big for windy small town roads...they came and went in NYC

[merkle41 2]

There is no big difference between the  2. The only difference between the 2 is that a Tower Ladder has a bucket at the end of it.

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I can't say a lot for rigs outside of NYC but inside Towers Are a hell of a lot slower to set up, in operation and to drive. The aerials can get set up and operate a lot faster. But the city likes towers to be in front just in case the building is lost and you can work a little better from a tower. But always remember quicker saves can be made from an aerial. Can you tell what I'm a fan of??!!