Preconnects on FDNY Engines?

[Turborich 12]

Call it a silly question, but I've never noticed crosslays on any FDNY engine (and unless their in the small compartment near the pass. side pump panel there's no room for them). If not why.. there has to be some important reason that we all aren't thinking of. Also, does FDNY run anything preconnected off the rear?

Call me a newbie (or an anti-buff) but I've never really took the time to look at an FDNY engine too close, a couple of the guys up here at work were wondering/arguing and I just figured we may all need some enlightenment.

Rich

FF/EMT-P

[Guest]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but a FDNY pumper is supposed to have a preconnected transverse bed behind the cab with 4 lenghts of 1 3/4 " on top of 6 lenghts of 2 1/2" and also a 2 length 1 3/4" preconnect on the front bumper.

However, the bed behind the cab is not usually visible from photos. Is there a transverse compartment up top behind the pump pannel ? Anyone ?

[Guest]

Th only "pre connects" on our Pumpers are the "trash" lines on the front bumper.

Pre connects are good if the Engine can operate in front of the building. We don't operate like that. Engine Co pulls up to the scene, the members stretch the handlines, then the engine pulls ahead and takes a hydrant. The front of the building is now clear for the Truck companys to operate.

There are too many variables here in NYC to use pre connects.

The older Mack Rigs did have a preconnected bed behind the crew cab. It was loaded on a "Chick Stand Swivel", which you could connect any hoseline too, but there was only one connection point. The device would "swivel" to either side of the Pumper, and left & right.

Those were the days........the best truck to ever operate in the Fire Service....the Macks!!!!

[antiquefirelt 994]

Pre connects are good if the Engine can operate in front of the building. 

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True enough, but often it isn't when they "can" operate in front, its just that they will because it's easier. This is also why you see engines parked in front of the building when they shouldn't be! The crosslays often get lines up with the front door, taking the truck's spot. A little discipline can correct this or get rid of the preconnects which cause all sorts of problems with hose stretching.

"There are too many variables here in NYC to use pre connects. "

We all have many variables, but the foremost variable is the wishy washy decision making processes and the lack of disciplined training. Preconnects are easier, but better? No way! Too many times the line is too short but becuase it works 8 of 10 times we pull it all 10 times. Most newer firefighters don't even grasp the concept of estimating a hose stretch!.

OK thats enough to start the week off!

[Turborich 12]

True enough,  but often it isn't when they "can" operate in front, its just that they will because it's easier. This is also why you see engines parked in front of the building when they shouldn't be! The crosslays often get lines up with the front door, taking the truck's spot. A little discipline can correct this or get rid of the preconnects which cause all sorts of problems with hose stretching.

"There are too many variables here in NYC to use pre connects. "

We all have many variables, but the foremost variable is the wishy washy decision making processes and the lack of disciplined training. Preconnects are easier, but better? No way! Too many times the line is too short but becuase it works 8 of 10 times we pull it all 10 times. Most newer firefighters don't even grasp the concept of estimating a hose stretch!.

OK thats enough to start the week off!

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Thanks for the input guys.. I appreciate it... definately ends a heated debate we all have been having "upstate" here.

Hey HM1/288... the squads have basically the same setup as the engines right?

[tbendick 27]

Squads have a lot of changes on the rigs. One major one as far as hose goes is that they only have three beds. One 1 3/4, 2 1/2 and 3 1/2.

They also have a much diffrent compartment layout. If you goto code3's website you can look at some of the models and see the changes.

[IzzyEng4 427]

I my opinion I think if FDNY adopted preconnects, only to use a couple feet of hose to feed the line, say 50 to 100 ft. that's all. But why even bother with that, they have a really good system that works for them.

[Guest]

Thats why we have the "trash line" preconnects on the front bumper. 2 lengths of 1 3/4" hose.

[Turborich 12]

Squads have a lot of changes on the rigs.  One major one as far as hose goes is that they only have three beds. One 1 3/4, 2 1/2 and 3 1/2. 

They also have a much diffrent compartment layout.  If you goto code3's website you can look at some of the models and see the changes.

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Oh yeah.. looking @ the c3 Sq. 61 right now as a matter of fact.. wondering about the current hoseloads on the squads though...

3 1/2 in hose? never heard of it... Oh well... I'll go back to my upstate LDH state of mind

I think it's so interesting to hear the ideology behind firefighting in the city... It's like a totally different world down there. Think about it though... about the only FD above the city (that I can recollect) that doesn't have preconnects is Mount Vernon (on the new engines at least)... aside from that just about every dept. has @ least 2 crosslays and 1 preconnect off of the back... interesting reasons why they do (n't do) it.

The idea is great though, I mean, If you take away the preconnects it leaves no margin for error. The apparatus placement O/S is taken care of automatically secondary to water supply (IF the 1st due is forced to reverse lay), and the worst that can happen with the 1 3/4 or 2 1/2 line is you just add to the line prior to charging... thus taking the guess work out of advancing preconnects at structural fires.

So, since we're all on our soapboxes, do you guys (if first O/S) tend to hit a hydrant or wait for the 2nd due? If not waiting do you lay a length of supply-> an appliance (water thief/gated wye/manifold) ->handline or something else for a taxpayer or multi-story residential?

I would love someday to see some sort of SOGs/SOPs just for shits and giggles... is that info in that super buff "operational reference guide" that was put out a few years ago?

May be getting over my head here... but just wondering (eh... this should certainly be enough to start the week off)

Rich

[Firefighter57 0]

the Satellites have LDH dont they? I thought i saw a few with some on it.

[dadbo46 50]

Anybody remember the FDNY "Superpumper." Could knock down walls with it's deck gun !!!

[Guest]

Many departments use pre connects because most of their structures are PD's that can be laddered with portable ladders. You must also look at the manfactures as they tend to build pumpers with 10' high hose beds, that are built strictly for supply hose. To cover all the bases and be ready for anything atleast one bed on every pumper should be static.