FireHouseUSA: Boston Episode 4(?)

[JohnnyOV 2]

Does anyone else notice a serious flaw with the way the boston FF wear there PPE? I dont want to bash, but i feel like what they are doing is extreamly dangerous and will get them hurt or even killed. Yes the car fire issue with the masks was adressed and I am proud that the Lt stood up and gave his men a stern talking to. But then later on in the show, the dorm fire, an even more dangerous issue arose. Actually there were quite a few of them.

1) The FF never even doned a hood. Mask went on then the Helmet and they entered the room on fire!

2) Coats were never buttoned up!!

3) SCBA were not properly worn. The waist strap was not buckled...guess they picked that up from FDNY.

4)The entire time this was happening, the narrator was saying they were donning the appropriate gear, and the officers were partaking in the same acts as well!

When i saw this, i was stunned! How could Career FF, someone who deals with this for a living, not take proper precautions to keep themselves from getting injured? I hope others who saw this episode feel the same way that i do.

p.s. i dont want this to be a paid/volly bash fest or anything along thoes lines, but mearly to get your points of view on the issue.

Edited November 2, 2005 by EMSJunkie712

[BIGRED1 71]

you got here before i did man. i saw the same thing. not waist strap, not hood, i think some guys may have not even had gloves(might have been on the ground). maybe they thought it was no big deal? small fire they thought they could handle it. but then again the guy does say it was so think that you could only stay alive a couple of minutes, they rushed to get clean air? who knows. but i think that the no hood is normal for them.

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

I was astonished att he fact the LT didnt say a thing to the FF's at the car fire and stop an unsafe act. I also think the "hamming up" witht e nozzle was uncalled for. What if the line became charged with they were "wrestling over the pipe" ? Last week we saw the MPO break his arm.

I spent some visiting the Boston Fire Dept and really like that dept, but I cant believe the unsafe acts they show on TV.

But , one thing should be a wake up call to all of us..... auto alarms go off for a reason. How many times have you been in the same situation. I can count on 2 or 3 hands how many times the auto alarm turned into a job or two !

[CAM502 6]

Amazing that they woul let something that might reflect negatively on tv. Well thats why NY is better than Boston...lol.

[HFD23 37]

Defiantly agree with all of you the key is take what u saw and learn from it let it save your life and those men and women you work with.

also I don’t know if it was the 2nd show or 3rd where the new guy was setting up; Ladder 26 on the grass as he was driving very fast across the grass on soft ground, only to become obstructed by over head wires, then after several costly minutes with no ventilation he was able to get the stick in place and the OV was able to vent the fire room,

1st issue is he is new to driving the rig fine we can take it as a learning experience but why not use a ground ladder whets the reliance on the stick. Were their no interior stairs to climb other then the attack stair case? Were their no fire escapes or means to access from an adjoining roof, the key is don’t always rely on the stick

Also once access was made to the roof ventilation could have been attained by vertical ventilation (cutting the Roof) or Horizontal (taking out the windows of the fire room which was on the top floor from above with the proper tools.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Hard to break old habits I guess, but still this day and age, especially being filmed wether they are at a real call or like the begining says "many parts of the program are recreated due to saftey concerns" still should follow the rules.

As for the Ladder stuff, Boston is the most agressive aerial ladder department in the USA. Where ever they can place the rig (experienced or not) they will do so. As for ground ladders, they do use them, but with most of the calls that have been shown, they are at 4 or mor story buildings and with some of those tenaments it is difficult to place ground ladders. However during a samll commercial, business or in residental buildings (triples) they have ground ladders set up.

I have buffed Boston many times since I have relatives up there. Firefighting is very agressinve up there, almost more agressive than FDNY. There is a site where has Bostons' SOG's. I'll try to find it and post it here.

Also, notice Boston truckies can still wear 3/4 boots and coats, but most wear turnouts. This has been in effect since the 1990's and I think it was due to rehab concerns. I know for a fact it was checked with NFPA and OSHA before being implimented. I'll double check it.

[cas2383 22]

If you notice at the begining of each episode there is a disclaimer saying some of the scenes are re-enacted for safety purposes. This could explain why the helmet cam pictures are always crystal clear and there is mysteriously no smoke in a fire room? Who knows....

[TBarnum 2]

Come on everybody, jump on " A BASHING WE WILL GO"

I am not defending Boston but I am sure there are things that need to be addressed at incidents of EVERY SINGLE MEMBER ON THIS SITE departments.

Charity begins at home.

[llm60 0]

These kind of things happen in all departments in every state whether its voulenteer or paid guys, people react differently in pressure situations and even the best of us can forget something from time to time.

[JohnnyOV 2]

Like i said in the first line, i did not want this to be a bash fest or a paid/volly war, just a gathering of thoughts on the issue. Honestly, i would have posted this thread if i was at a fire myself, and saw my dept or any other dept operating this way. I appologize if anyone has take what I thought was a post on safety, and turned it into bashing. Ill just keep my thoughts to myself next time.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

You guys gotta lighten up.

First off, under pressure forget things time to time. Not in my book. Not when it comes to PPE. That is complancency and a leadership problem.

Second, no one is bashing, he is pointing out safety issues, which enough is enough with giving the benefit of the doubt, or don't say anything blah blah blah. He is right on the money with his comments. That is a show reflecting the entire fire service. Perhaps if someone in an upper position were watching the show, and saw the episode where all the injuries took place that would be a wake up call to get into action before a serious incident takes place and they lose one of their firefighters.

The one comment I can't agree on more is, discuss the safety concerns not just here, but at your own departments. Complacency is a disease that grows faster then cancer. Use it to make changes in yourself and your department.

[dadbo46 50]

Does anybody get the feeling that the show should be 30 minutes rather than 60 ? How many times can they make the point that you WILL get wet when visiting Niagra Falls ?

...and....could they have selected a slower house in Boston ?They went a week without a fire call ? Shades of City Island !!

and one final thing.....Real officers tell their men what to do...and lead by example. While use of PPE at the car fire was machoism at it's best, the situation should have been dealt with at the scene and not back at the firehouse. Officers need to be defenitive with their men. I thought that the Lieutenant was gonna put the issue up to a vote !!!

Edited November 3, 2005 by dadbo46

[x242Steve 1]

...and....could they have selected a slower house in Boston ?They went a week without a fire call ?  Shades of City Island !!

Boston E37/L26 (Huntington Ave Express) has been in the Top 5 of the country's busiest fire companies for quite a while.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Actually as an officer I can say what the Loo did was right by saying something at the firehouse. Also he should have said something there, though not in depth as he did at the firehouse. And I don't care what people think of me when I tell someone to do something if its to make sure my guys / girls are safe.

But as firefighters, you have to respect the officer for what he did and the reasons why he did what he did. We only are going by what they are showing on the scenes. And since this is a TV Show, we actually don't know if the Loo did in fact say something at the scene. You all know the media / TV producers do cut out footage that doesn't "fit" the program to what they want, to what 37 / 26's want. Heck just look at every call we have responded to and what was said on the news, usually it's only 25 to 50 % right.

PS I'll be the first to admit I've failed to wear my PPE correctly and truct me I've been yelled at 1000's of times.

And for my two cents on the lenth of the show, 60 minutes is fine, you have to show that these are regular guys as well. There is a life outside of the firehouse.

[Remember585 815]

I still think that those 2 knuckleheads fighting for the knob was priceless. Stupid, but priceless. It made me think back to some of the calls I've been to over the years where a guy will have the knob and someone, either senior, higher-ranking or just plain bigger, rips it away from them.

As for the PPE and SCBA, I've aired out my opinion enough to not only beat the horse to death, but to beat him into a bottle of glue.

Show is OK in my book, because I watch it for entertainment, not critquing.

[csf248 0]

1) The FF never even doned a hood. Mask went on then the Helmet and they entered the room on fire!

2) Coats were never buttoned up!!

3) SCBA were not properly worn. The waist strap was not buckled...guess they picked that up from FDNY.

←

i think it could be because it was a re-enactment that this was not done, but then again who knows?

[JohnnyOV 2]

i think it could be because it was a re-enactment that this was not done, but then again who knows?

←

nah, thoes were the actual college dorms, the scene were they were gearing up was in the hallway with doors and room number on them, with thick black smoke pouring out of the room. And even if it was the reinactment, you would think that they would be suting up there PPE even better (if thats even gramatically correct im not sure). The reinactment could be considered training, so train as if it was the real thing. Why wouldnt they want to suit fully up in a training enviornment?

Edited November 3, 2005 by EMSJunkie712

[Guest SQUADco119]

I personally think the show is good well anything ivolving firefighting ill watch lol. But there are alot of issues to adrees with the ppe and scba but its not our job to do it for them its thiers its starts from the chiefs then works its way down the chain. Theyll learn soon enough hopefully not the hard way. If the gear is available where it its that simple. Mask up especially at car fires i dont know how many times i heard but if your downwind u dont have too well if thats the way they wanna think fine but ill be the guy with my mask on at the car fire so when it explodes i might just have a face left or one of the pressure loaded springs fly off, oh and hey not to mention wind does change direction . OK ill stop now we all no the deal.

[Ladder44 73]

Why would some of the FF wear 3/4 boots and coats? Dont they know that full turnout gear is a lot safer? well what ever the reason for wearing that is, everytime i see them i think of that movie Backdraft.

Edited November 3, 2005 by Rytoast391

[TBarnum 2]

I agree that safety is the most important thing. NOBODY want to get hurt or see others hurt.

When we make comments about things that happen (in departments we are not a part of) you could call it "monday morning quarterbacking" or worse "bashing"

I guess we have forgotten the post about 2 weeks ago dealing with this.

Let Boston fix their issues. Are they going to listen to me or some other web site critic, DOUBT IT

We all should work at our home departments to make it better and SAFER.

I know My department has lots to address.

We can make general statements like: "has anybody seen the stuff that happens in this show happen in their own department'. Then it would be first hand knowledge.

It comes down to training and SUPERVISION.

Be Safe!

[mfc2257 464]

I didn't have a chance to watch any of the episodes at their original broadcast time, so I TiVo'd them. After watching the first bunch of episodes back to back to back, I kept seeing the fact that the fires were all without smoke etc. Then there was the fire in the cabinets that kept shooting out at them.

I rewound and saw that most of the fires appeared to be filmed in a propane fired training facility. Sometimes you could even see the poured block walls of the training room. All of the overhaul films appear to be genuine, but I think most of the actual fires are filmed in a facility, and the budget for the show probably pays to have halfway decent and real looking furniture and settings put into the room to make it more realistic than the typical training facility with concrete and metel everwhere.

Just my 2 cents.

I'd comment on the PPE issue, but it's been covered.

[HFD23 37]

the one problem I have with this is no one is bashing a department people are pointing out issues that we are all guilty of and these happened to be caught on TV and if you want to be on TV then well your open to critics, but all the comments made here are designed to help other people on this site see the whole picture watching other departments in action helps us to learn and talking about what we saw helps us to learn from not only what we saw but what come of the best in our field saw, you have state and county fire instructors on here, your have probies, FF's Lt's Capt's Deputy Chiefs, Batt Chiefs and full Chiefs learn from the knowledge and experience, its not a bashing its a critique learn form it and let it save yours or some ones else’s life

And thats what this site is about and what Seth and every one else on here want a learning tool for all ages and levels of experiance. so we can learn form each other.

Edited November 3, 2005 by HFD211

[TBarnum 2]

Well I learned how to wear my PPE and other safety issues in training classes. If I or others don't follow good safety practices than either we just don't give a sh*t or we weren't paying attention. Wear our gear or being safe at a firescene are BASICS. We should all know this before we ever respond to our very first call. Like someone once stated on this site " Train to live, Live to train"

[JohnnyOV 2]

Well I learned how to wear my PPE and other safety issues in training classes. If I or others don't follow good safety practices than either we just don't give a sh*t or we weren't paying attention. Wear our gear or being safe at a firescene are BASICS. We should all know this before we ever respond to our very first call. Like someone once stated on this site " Train to live, Live to train"

←

I think the reason people dont wear PPE, is to look cool. I honsetly belive that 100%. Why you ask? beacause i was once that way. I know im still a youngon in the FD world but the first year or so, i wasnt properly wearing my PPE, so i could look cool. Sounds stupid to me now, but i was young and nieve back then, and honestly still am in most areas.

What caused me to change, was my fault entierely. I was outside a structure fire with the house fully engulfed and collapsed, except for small parts of the frame. The older members, from what dept i will not say, were not wearing there PPE fully and I followed there example, since it was my first working fire. Well needless to say, I was wearing my hood, around my neck and not pulled up. My good luck and fortune had me standing in the path of a water stream from a hose line on the other side of the house. Well a couple of hot embers were taken in that water stream and ended up lodged between the folds of my hood, and my neck. And they stayed there for quite some time while i tried to pull them out with my gloved hands. I now have a nice scar on my neck that is a constant reminder of why PPE is an absolute nessesity, and not a "cool thing" to wear. IT IS YOUR LIFE AND WELLBEING, not something to be worn to get the ladies! You wouldnt go space walking without properly wearing your spacesuit, so why should you fight fires when your not properly wearing your PPE?

Never again will i approch a burning structure without my entire PPE on. I lucked out once by having it hit my neck and no where else, next time I might not be so lucky...actually, there will be no next time!

Stay safe and smart!

Edited November 4, 2005 by EMSJunkie712

[DaveTFD 0]

is it just me or does any1 else see 1/2 of those guys not even wearing bunker pants? the LT. walks around in his coat and the old rubber boots and his helmet. no air pack, no gloves, no hood.

good observations

even with the flaws in the show, it is real and it is a good show. this doesnt mean i like boston or anything, i am a yankee fan

[IzzyEng4 427]

is it just me or does any1 else see 1/2 of those guys not even wearing bunker pants? the LT. walks around in his coat and the old rubber boots and his helmet. no air pack, no gloves, no hood.

good observations

even with the flaws in the show, it is real and it is a good show. this doesnt mean i like boston or anything, i am a yankee fan

←

See my post above. I'm looking into the protocol for 3/4 boots but thay have been able to wear them for quite sometime now.

[DaveTFD 0]

izzy, when you find out the answer, let me know ime curious about it

[ny10570 745]

Apparently there isn't much in terms of national requirements for bunker gear. In many of the photos I see of San Fransico FFs I see guys performing all sorts of operations with their air pack on with only a bunker jacket and their duty uniform on.

Edited November 4, 2005 by ny10570

[IzzyEng4 427]

Hey everyone.

I have found the link to FEMA's report on Boston's turnout police. It's long but worth the time to read and understand. Boston spent a lot of time on this and I have to agree with their findings. This policy was placed in 2000

http://www.usfa.fema.gov/pdf/efop/tr_02dm....r%20policy'

Cut and paste the link. It's 52 pages but very informative.

Iz