why is everything so complicated?

[hudson144 150]

It appears that over the past few years alot of alarms turn into a major mutual aid response that not too long ago would have been handled by the department by itself. I am aware of the importance of fast teams, additional ladders etc. but are alot of the incidents anymore a little over kill? I know,its always easier to send them back but in some cases mutual aid is activated before the IC is even close to getting a look at what is going on. This post is not directed to any particular dept. and it is just a thought that I have and might bring out some valid information for moving so many rigs for basically no reason at all,lets hear some thoughts and please leave out the finger pointing!

[x648eng119 2]

Simple - When in doubt, start 'em out. You can always turn people around, slow them down, etc. Best to get them started.

[turk182 37]

Manpower!!! I do not think it the equipment that is needed it is the manpower that the IC is looking for. My department does not have nearly the manpower it had 15 yrs. ago I am sure it is the same with other depts.

[Guest EMSCOMM80]

The majority of local departments definitely do not have the membership the once had. Since the end of the Vietnam War, the amount of people who volunteer in their local fire companies has dropped. Over the last few years, membership in the volunteer fire service seems to have declined even more rapidly. At the present time, a lot of the local companies seem to have very little manpower during the day…some have no manpower at all. Thus the reason for requesting various other departments. It seems like the IC would have no other choice but to request enough resources to safety bring the incident to its conclusion.

[TBarnum 2]

I agree, Manpower. More members working jobs they can't leave for fire calls even working fires, jobs not in town, working 2 jobs, younger members moving due to cost of housing or job availability, not getting the 18 - mid twenties member base joining-up. These are some of the problems that face Departments now and in the future. I have been in the fire service since 1982, I can't imagine what the fire service in Westchester County will look like in 2028!

[Guest EMSCOMM80]

Maybe, if the cost of living were a little lower, Westchester Co. volunteer departments would be thriving.

[turk182 37]

"Since the end of the Vietnam War, the amount of people who volunteer in their local fire companies has dropped."

EMSCOMM80 I have never heard that before. I am curious, is that a known fact or just a observation?

[Guest EMSCOMM80]

Turk 182-

My statement is based on my observations. Prior to Vietnam, every high school graduating class always had a hand full of guys who weren’t going off to college. These guys just planned to work locally, ie. DPW, the phone company, etc.. Traditionally, these guys became part of you local fire companies.

During and after Vietnam, some people didn’t want to volunteer. Over the years, different people with different traditions and cultures moved in. The cost of living slowly climbed pushing all the “blue collar†people out of the area. The ones that remain are forced to work so much that they don’t seem to have much free time.

In addition, back in the day volunteering in the fire service was a family tradition. As soon as a young man was old enough, he joined his local department. The new generation does not think like this. Most of the young men and women I know seem to be totally driven by money. (which isn’t a bad thing in today’s society).

(I am not trying to start trouble with this statement) Lastly, departments seem to be hurting for members so bad that they allow just about anyone to get in. My grandfather used to tell everyone that when he joined his company, back in the day…the department came to his home to interview him. Departments seemed to have higher standards back then. Now, some people avoid their local companies because of their membership’s “repâ€. I am not bashing volunteers…I am one myself.

Thus… the local volunteer fire service suffers.

Just my two cents.

[dadbo46 50]

It's all about the money !!!

[turk182 37]

I think your observation is very interesting and it sounds pretty much right on target. Thanks for sharing some interesting insight.

[BIGRED1 71]

People worship money. plain and simple. The "let me help the community and better myself" thought proscess has be replaced with "how can i get more money so i can buy something i don't need". I do love money as we all do but i also have a scense of pride in my town and myself. alot of young people today talk about there cars (that mommy and daddy bought) and there sweet cloths( also from mommy and daddy) and thats what their proud of. i take great pride in the fact that i am a firemen and that i volunteer to help my community. some high school kids asked me why i would risk my butt for people i don't know and not get paid for it. i said i get paid in something more valuable, self worth. If people could afford to live around here we would have more candidates for the volunteer departments, more people taking the paid job tests. we wouldn't have to just take who ever shows up at the door. more members means more likely hood someone is gonna be around to make the calls.

Thats my two cents.

[Remember585 815]

Slow down people, I can already forsee a paid vs. volunteer fight starting.

Why does so much Mutual Aid get called? I don't have an answer for that. If I had to take a guess, perhaps manpower, specialized resources, or even that old tradition of "calling one's friends for the big one..."

In our Department, we respond to a structure fire with 3 Engines, 1 Quint, 1 Rescue and if needed, Our Tanker plus 2 additional right off the bat. The last two structure fire we had (both in July) we contained and extinguished on our own. We called in FAST for Mutual Aid on both. We also utilized Mutual Aid for a Cascade Unit, EMS and to provide coverage.

At the second fire, it was so damn hot and humid our IC called for an additional Engine Company for relief. Not to mention there was a F-up in dispatch, where many MANY members didn't know we had a fire. (Different subject for a different time).

I agree with Hudson however, that Mutual Aid is getting called more and more. I don't disagree nor agree with it. I just hope it works, and that it is used correctly. I can't tell you how pissed I get when someone calls for something just to "do the right thing." I've heard requests for FAST that takes 10-15 minutes to respond with a crew of 3 or 4. I've even witnessed or been a part of a Mutual Aid request that skips a town....??? Why does everyone think they are better then everyone else? Why do people call for things they don't need, is it to ensure they are called when their neighbors get thier next big one?

Bottom line - Mutual Aid is GREAT. Use it, but use it wisely. And for the love of pete, GROW UP and do what is best for your incident, not your reputation!

[RichC 0]

The manpower issue is something each department needs to factor in and the IC should have strategies in place to deal with the issue. The time of day and day of the week, and as the moderator just pointed, weather, have to be factored in. If these factors dictate a quick or automatic call for mutual aid, so be it. End result, we may be running on each others fires which is fine since most of us with a few exceptions don't see that much fire to begin with. As with most things in life, the more you do it, the better you get at it. Playing with the bells and lights or whatever is not really much of a draw for me.

I think most of us signed on to fight fires and would welcome the opportunity to see more of it by going to each others fires if its done in a planned and systematic way.

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

For years command related classes have been trying to get IC's to request resources "BEFORE" they may actually be needed. Just as the other poster has said, it's easier to turn them back than to get them started too late. I am in full agreement with this policy. It's better to have it on the way and not need it than to realize that it should have been requested 10 minutes after it would have been useful.

Another point I would like to make is that additional resouces at scenes in both winter and summer particularly dealing with extream temperatures give the option to rotate out companies so they can rehab for a bit. This may be one of the contributing factors toward the high death rates (due to heart attack). Aside from physical conditioning, the fact we are working our people harder than usual at scenes may come into play.

Just a though.

[ONLOCATION 24]

For years command related classes have been trying to get IC's to request resources "BEFORE" they may actually be needed. Just as the other poster has said, it's easier to turn them back than to get them started too late. I am in full agreement with this policy. It's better to have it on the way and not need it than to realize that it should have been requested 10 minutes after it would have been useful.

   

    Another point I would like to make is that additional resouces at scenes in both winter and summer particularly dealing with extream temperatures give the option to rotate out companies so they can rehab for a bit. This may be one of the contributing factors toward the high death rates (due to heart attack). Aside from physical conditioning, the fact we are working our people harder than usual at scenes may come into play.

Just a though.

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Could not agree with you more. simply put. The majority of the time the answer is right infront of you!