FDNY Mutual Aid Plan

[SQDBOSS 6]

I believe last Friday, I recieved the email regarding the FDNY Mutual Aid plan that was sent to all Westchester Departments via DES Chief Gasparre. Did anyone else besides myself find the "training" requirements confusing. Is the recommended requirement set at Firefighter II or does Basic Firefighting qualify you to be able to participate. I must"ve read the email with my Chief about 10x, and the plan seems to contradict itself. If the standard is set at Firefighter II, I know my Dept. couldn't participate. If anyone has knowledge of the above please drop me a line ! Thanks.

[Guest EMSCOMM80]

In reference to the mutual aid plans for FDNY:

All the departments that meet the standards set forth in the mutual aid plan, and plan to participate should also consider the following:

Some departments in Westchester have threads on hose that differs from FDNY. My company in particular learned this on 9/11. We were able to get adaptors made up (on very short notice), and I believe they are still kept on apparatus designated for mutual aid.

Hydrant wrenches are different in NYC. “Normal†hydrant wrenches did not work, the last time I checked.

One other thing to consider is communications. How many departments have any FDNY frequencies in their apparatus? Is there a mutual aid frequency that both Westchester and FDNY utilize? In the event that there was a disaster to which we had to respond…would 60 Control be able to hear our radios on the far side of NYC?

Sorry…a little off topic, but important things to consider.

[JBE 328]

I'm waiting to see what came down on our end. These are all important points to consider. I do remember that WC Field Comm was parked at the Bronx Dispatchers office for a few days following the 11th.

[firecapt32 282]

I do belive that ff2 is the mimium for mutual aid to the city. BIA is the equivelent of ff2 . If your department dosent meet ---you dont go to the street!!! so get it

[TRUCK6018 50]

Did anyone else besides myself find the "training" requirements confusing.  Is the recommended requirement set at Firefighter II or does Basic Firefighting qualify you to be able to participate.

←

Basic firefighter doesn't qualify you as an interior firefighter let alone meet FDNY's training requirements. Today equivalent of Basic is Scene Support Operations. Firefighter I encompasses the former Basic and Intermediate.

FFII is an excellent idea for a mutual aid standard. What good is incoming mutual aid if 2 members of a 4 man engine are exterior only? That will not likely serve the objectives of the incident commander for the mutual aid assignments.

[SQDBOSS 6]

Thanks for the responses. I am full agreement regarding the level of training required is paramount. But, how many Departments within Westchester are able to provide fully manned apparatus with FFII requirements. I know I had to decline participation in the plan due to the training requiremnts. I have at least 12 members with a combination of the required training, but considering CFR & FAST was a requirement and we don't provide EMS and I am still working on assembling a FAST we don't fit the criteria. Food for thought, how many other Department's throughout Westchester won't be able to participate? AND if obviously the paid Department's meet the standards of FFII who would backfill them?? Obviously, I'm straying a bit but just curious!

[SQDBOSS 6]

Thanks for the responses. I am full agreement regarding the level of training required is paramount. But, how many Departments within Westchester are able to provide fully manned apparatus with FFII requirements. I know I had to decline participation in the plan due to the training requiremnts. I have at least 12 members with a combination of the required training, but considering CFR & FAST was a requirement and we don't provide EMS and I am still working on assembling a FAST we don't fit the criteria. Food for thought, how many other Department's throughout Westchester won't be able to participate? AND if obviously the paid Department's meet the standards of FFII who would backfill them?? Obviously, I'm straying a bit but just curious!

[Guest EMSCOMM80]

TRUCK6018 -

I HAVE MY BASIC AND INTERMEDIATE FIREFIGHTER CERTIFICATES. (WHICH YOU SAY EQUALS FIREFIGHTER I.) WOULD YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW IF I AM ELIGABLE TO TAKE FIREFIGHTER II? IF SO, DO I HAVE TO TEST OUT OF MY FF I SKILLS?

AGAIN, A LITTLE OFF TOPIC.

[calhobs 110]

TRUCK6018 -

I HAVE MY BASIC AND INTERMEDIATE FIREFIGHTER CERTIFICATES.  (WHICH YOU SAY EQUALS FIREFIGHTER I.)  WOULD YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW IF I AM ELIGABLE TO TAKE FIREFIGHTER II?  IF SO, DO I HAVE TO TEST OUT OF MY FF I SKILLS?

AGAIN, A LITTLE OFF TOPIC.

←

You shouldnt have to test out, you should just be able to jump into a FFII classbut the thing is i dont think the county gives it very often, what you can do is take the class piece meal when the course come out the FTC is offering AVET i think its coming up in a few weeks but it could be filled ck it out.

[firecapt32 282]

OK OK listen up all interested in a firefighter 2 call your training officer in your department ohhhhhh you dont have one??? mabey you should!!!! OKOK no training officer?? Have your chief call the training center ask when the next ff2 class is scheduled believe me this is a case of ask and you shall be answered!!!!

just remember firefighters must have passed a recent physical and are capable of waring a SCBA ohhhh no physicals??? hmmmm better get them

"GET EM TRAINED KEEP EM TRAINED"

[TRUCK6018 50]

TRUCK6018 -

I HAVE MY BASIC AND INTERMEDIATE FIREFIGHTER CERTIFICATES.  (WHICH YOU SAY EQUALS FIREFIGHTER I.)  WOULD YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW IF I AM ELIGABLE TO TAKE FIREFIGHTER II?  IF SO, DO I HAVE TO TEST OUT OF MY FF I SKILLS?

AGAIN, A LITTLE OFF TOPIC.

←

In order to take FFII, you must have either:

FFI

OR

Basic Firefighter (91),

Intermediate Firefighter (92), and

Hazardous Materials First Responder Operations (31)

Additionally, if you started training prior to the year 2000, you need:

Firefighting Essentials (02),

Initial Fire Attack (10),

Firefighter Safety and Survival (28),

Fire Behavior and Arson Awareness (03), and

Hazardous Materials First Responder Operations (31)

[Guest EMSCOMM80]

THANKS FOR ALL THE REPLIES. I’LL GET IN TOUCH WITH MY TRAINING OFFICER ABOUT FFII.

NOW, BACK ON TOPIC…

SINCE THE FDNY MUTUAL AID STANDARDS ARE SO “TOUGH†TO MEET, WOULD IT BE A POSSIBILITY THAT INSTEAD OF THE COUNTY HAVING A LIST OF DEPARTMENTS THAT MEET THE STANDARD…

MAKE A LIST OF INDIVIDUAL FIRE FIGHTERS THAT HAVE THE PROPER QUALIFICATIONS. PICK VARIOUS PRE-DETERMINED APPARATUS (NOT THE HUGE PARADE MACHINES, BUT THE APPARATUS THAT WOULD BE EFFICIENT AND OF SOME USE)… THEN ASSIGN THE FIRE FIGHTERS FROM THE “QUALIFIED LIST†TO THE APPARATUS LOCATED CLOSEST TO THEM. ONCE THE FIRE FIGHTERS WERE ASSIGNED, THEY COULD FARMILIARIZE THEMSELVES WITH THE APPARATUS AND TRAIN AS A TEAM.

…MAYBE A LITTLE FAR FETCHED, BUT IT’S AN IDEA.

[SQDBOSS 6]

In order to take FFII, you must have either:

FFI

OR

Basic Firefighter (91),

Intermediate Firefighter (92), and

Hazardous Materials First Responder Operations (31)

Additionally, if you started training prior to the year 2000, you need:

Firefighting Essentials (02),

Initial Fire Attack (10),

Firefighter Safety and Survival (28),

Fire Behavior and Arson Awareness (03), and

Hazardous Materials First Responder Operations (31)

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thanks for taking the time to answer this and trying to help other FF's out, and not making "toolbox" answers l

[ny10570 745]

Good luck with that EMSCOMM80. I don;t know of a single dept that's gonna hand over their rig to abunch of guys they don't know. AN d lets no forget, find me any firefighter that will go into a building or anything for that matter, with a crew of guys without knowing anything more about them than they completed FF2. Its just like setting up a fast team. Once you get enough members up to the standard and a rig equiuped to handle the response you submit your dept to the list.

[TRUCK6018 50]

What EMSCOMM80 isn't much different than the current squads, mass decon trailers and MDSU teams that Westchester County has put into play. There is one squad comprised of three departments (S6 - Greenville, Fairview and Hartsdale).

You take a group of firefighters, with specific minimum training standards, from specific neighboring departments to form the unit. They then train together and respond together.

I don't think anyone is implying that you just pick members out of a hat and team them up with someone from accross the county and respond blindly. It's all about training.

[Guest EMSCOMM80]

...My thoughs exactly! Training is the key to any successful emergency response.

[dadbo46 50]

Get over it. Not gonna happen.

When they change the name on the outside of the rig to say "Anybody Can Ride" FD, then maybe !!

[Guest EMSCOMM80]

Get over it.  Not gonna happen.

When they change the name on the outside of the rig to say "Anybody Can Ride" FD, then maybe !!

←

I was speaking hypothetically!

I never said it was going to happen. I don’t think it’s all that unrealistic. I think it would take a good deal of planning and training to get the program off the ground.

[tbendick 27]

I don;t know of a single dept that's gonna hand over their rig to abunch of guys they don't know.

Well lets look at this in the BIG picture. This is about Mutal Aide for something very LARGE SCALE. Down in N.O. this is pretty much what was going on. They put one FF from N.O. that was trained on how to drive and work the rig and then the crews were made up of FF's from FDNY and some from other Depts.

AN d lets no forget, find me any firefighter that will go into a building or anything for that matter, with a crew of guys without knowing anything more about them than they completed FF2.

This happens all the time. I have been sent from my firehouse across to the other end of the city to ride on a Truck because someone got hurt. I don't know one person in the Firehouse or know one street/building in the area. I do know that they have the same training as me and thats all I know.

I have yet to see my great Dept's plans for any of this. We as always are the last ones to find anything out. Time will tell whats next.

[HFD750 6]

I think some of you are missing the point it's in case of another large scale emergency occurring in the city. We went on 9-11 didn't we? Well, All were trying to do is make it more organized. My department for example we signed up for an engine company as part of this mutal aid plan.

As for qualifications just read it, it's pretty simple,You either meet the requirements or you don't. No one else is riding your engine or truck but YOUR men and women.

I'm not sure whats so hard to understand read the first page "The potential for another large scale emergency occurring in New York is an everpresent reality"

"This plan is part of the city's preparation for any such emergency"

Only this time they will be able to dispatch in a "Timely and organized manner."

I think it's a good thing. Again we went down to help on 9-11 so what's the difference?

This time it will be better thought out on who and what to send deppending on the type of emergency.

What's wrong with being ready?