Police Dept. vs. County Control Dispatch

[Guest]

Whats the best choice? Is their a difference in PD and Conuty control dispatch? The reason for this thread is to find out what in fact is the best choice. In my FD we have dealt with both, and at this point I believe we need some feedback from agencies that have switched to County Control. Please leave some feedback!!

[mfc2257 464]

County fire dispatch is by far and away the best choice.

I've got no issues with the PD, but at the end of the day, the dispatchers at 60 control have the training, know how, and all the resources that a FD needs.

When 60 control dispatches, it is uniform and 99% of the time clear, well spoken and understandable.

I cannot say the same is true for PD's, where the desk officer isn't necessarily a trained dispatcher.

If the crap hits the fan, there is usually only one officer on the desk. It is impossible for him/her to be handling mutiple situations with his RMP's, taking multiple 911 calls, dispatching FD, dispatching EMS, and calling for additional resources. Let them answer the 911 call, and if the FD is needed, send it on to 60 control.

The PD (usually) cannot account for automatic mutual aid, they aren't familiar with other FD/EMS agencies that support the first due, and the propensity to send an RMP to a call to "check it out" happens all too often.

This being said, it's not a bash on the PD dispatchers.... Just that 60 control is trained and equipped to do the job and has more resources at their fingertips. 60 control dispatchers have uniform training and SOP/SOG's.

[Guest]

RMPs?

[WAS967 97]

[Cue sarcasm]From Acronym Finder:

Risk Management Program

Radar Modernization Program

Radio Management Panel

Radio Mobile Patrol (Police Car NYPD)

Radio Motor Patrol

Radio Móvil Privada (Spanish: Private Mobile Radio)

Random Match Probability

Random Mod Players (gaming)

Rapid Message Processor

Rapid Models and Prototypes Inc

Raster Map Product

Readiness Manning Period

Receive Message Processor

Records Management Plan

Recurring Maintenance Program

Reentry Measurement Program

Reference Model Parameter

Regional Monitoring Program

Registered Medical Practitioner

Regression-Based Model Prediction

[pjm1733 22]

1191

Edited August 9, 2005 by pjm1733

[ONLOCATION 24]

Control is probably the best way to go but only convience about having Local PD dispatch is the better knowing of your area but also this has been proven false in some situations but nothing is ever perfect. All in all Control is the way to go.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Any centralized dispatching, 911 answering point is the way to go. If your 911 calls get transferred properly control can give EMD for medical, ask the right questions for other emergencies and it is all computerized CAD material.

As far as knowing your area, I don't see where this is any benefit as far as the PD goes. Once your info is transferred into the CAD a separate screen shows a map of the incident location and surrounding area. Uniformity is the best and the plethra of resources they can find if you need it is priceless, including better coordination of mutual aid etc.

[ems-buff 81]

Any centralized dispatching, 911 answering point is the way to go. If your 911 calls get transferred properly control can give EMD for medical, ask the right questions for other emergencies and it is all computerized CAD material.

As far as knowing your area, I don't see where this is any benefit as far as the PD goes.  Once your info is transferred into the CAD a separate screen shows a map of the incident location and surrounding area.  Uniformity is the best and the plethra of resources they can find if you need it is priceless, including better coordination of mutual aid etc.

I agree with alsfirefighter any centralized 911 system is a good system saddly i'm being dispatch by PD and i don't know if i want to go to 60 because who know the way around the village better than the PD who patrol it

[Guest]

Thank you all very much for the input...Hopefully soon, the white hats in my Dept. will realize what we are missing out on..

[Guest alsfirefighter]

So then your PD operates your apparatus? What does them knowing the way around your village have anything to do with answering and dispatching alarms? I'm just interested in why some seem to think this is such a plus and why it is the only reason I see listed. I could get anyone around any town or village if they needed by viewing the map screen next to the CAD.

[ems-buff 81]

by dispatch they dispatch our ambulace not the fire trucks. and i would like to go to 60 personaly but my officers don't why i could tell you srry

[Guest]

The reason for this thread is to find out the best way to go..Personally prior to posting this thread I knew the way to go. In my Dept. we are having so many problems with our present dispatch, as in not toning the call out, delaying FD dispatch so the PD can "check and advise". Think this is an liable issue?

Anyway, at this time the information is in the CAD system at WCDES but our present and future Chiefs aren't getting the ball rolling. Grow a set and make a persistent problem get better. There are so many pluses as in the EMD, CAD, etc. everything is in front of the professional dispatchers.. Sometimes change is for the good, and this is one instance that falls into a gain for the CFD..

[MF237 2]

THE CALLS ARE RECEIVED BY THE PD, WHY TAKE EXTRA TIME TO SEND IT TO 60 CONTROL. THE PD IS NOT GIVING UP THE PHONES AND MOST FD CALLS DO NOT COME IN 911. ALSO HAVING A DISPATCHER WHO KNOWS THEW AREA IS DEFINATELY AN ADVANTAGE ANYONE WHO DOESN'T THINK SO IS A FOOL. NO KNOCK ON THE PRESENT 60 CONTROL BUT WHERE ARE THE COMPUTERS AND CAD EQUIP THE FD'S ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE GOTTEN YEARS AGO-OBSOLETE THATS WHERE

[dadbo46 50]

Guns don't put out fires....water does.

PD's have a mentality to protect the home turf....at all costs. If they could put out fires, they would. Hence delayed calls...on a regular basis.

Perhaps there needs to be a consolidation of PD's in Westchester. Maybe that will provide superior emergency services to the good citizens of Westchester.

[Remember585 815]

THE CALLS ARE RECEIVED BY THE PD, WHY TAKE EXTRA TIME TO SEND IT TO 60 CONTROL. THE PD IS NOT GIVING UP THE PHONES AND MOST FD CALLS DO NOT COME IN 911. ALSO HAVING A DISPATCHER WHO KNOWS THEW AREA IS DEFINATELY AN ADVANTAGE ANYONE WHO DOESN'T THINK SO IS A FOOL. NO KNOCK ON THE PRESENT 60 CONTROL BUT WHERE ARE THE COMPUTERS AND CAD EQUIP THE FD'S ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE GOTTEN YEARS AGO-OBSOLETE THATS WHERE

Where's the delay? A couple of real-life cases would help with this statement.

Most calls do not come in via 911 - true, to an extent. the number of cellular 911 calls continues to grow, and these calls go to NYSP, then, in most cases, to 60 Control. Speaking from personal experience, calls that 60 Control receives for our FD get dispatched propmtly, whereas a BULK of calls received by our PD get the ol' check and advise.

As for knowing the area....I don't agree. One of 60 Control's dispatchers that hails from DUTCHESS COUNTY has no problem doing his job, and he does it quite well, if not better then some others! To bring up the old and antiquated system we were all supposed to receive, who really gives a $hit now? What we have NOW works better then many systems in the area, if not the country. A team is dedicated to constantly improving the CAD that 60 Control has.

I can not speak on Police dispatch for each area, but as a whole, it is no longer the way to go in smaller communities. Having all the resources you need, whether its a fire, EMS, haz-mat, C&O, etc. etc. etc. - one phone or radio call gets it for you.

I close with this statement. If you dial 911 in your town, who answers it? Is it someone who can give you pre-arrival medical instructions, or someone who just says "help is on the way." Is it someone who has the capability to send more then one resource or not? Don't you think you are entitled to the best you can get?

Enough with the head against the wall debating - this should be a hands-down issue!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

The only one that is a fool is the one that cannot explain in factual detail why having a dispatcher that knows the area means anything for fire and ems.

"Most FD calls don't come in 911." Nice blanket statement, in my district they do, they just don't get transferred to 60 properly by the PD. If thats the case in your area I feel sorry for you, actually I feel sorry for your residents, perhaps you need to reevaluate your public education if this is the case.

On a side note anyone who doesn't think that prearrival instructions, coordinated response, mutual aid isn't beneficial then they are a fool. As far as those computers...who cares. What difference does that make. We have computers in our firehouses now that accesses the CAD and computerized reports for the state that is phenomenal in getting reports done, getting stats, etc. Some of the attitudes reflected on this topic is exactly why Westchester Fire/EMS can go nowhere and why communication is so screwed up. Keeping living in the past while the future comes and goes.

[x635 4,066]

Although the replies by ALS and Remember585 were awesome, I want to reply too.

THE CALLS ARE RECEIVED BY THE PD, WHY TAKE EXTRA TIME TO SEND IT TO 60 CONTROL.

So that the caller and agencies being dispatched get a dispactch center staffed with professional dispatchers (notice the plural), in a centralized and properly equipped facilty. Which will actually SAVE time.

THE PD IS NOT GIVING UP THE PHONES AND MOST FD CALLS DO NOT COME IN 911. 

Way off base and wrong. Most automatic alarms come in via digit, MOST MVA's, Fires, hazmats, etc come in via 911.

ALSO HAVING A DISPATCHER WHO KNOWS THEW AREA IS DEFINATELY AN ADVANTAGE ANYONE WHO DOESN'T THINK SO IS A FOOL. 

Who's calling who a fool here??? 60 Control Dispatchers know the area a lot better then you think. I'd rather have dispatchers with a good knowledge of the system, a GIS CAD and trained to properly interview callers then someone who "knows the area".

NO KNOCK ON THE PRESENT 60 CONTROL BUT WHERE ARE THE COMPUTERS AND CAD EQUIP THE FD'S ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE GOTTEN YEARS AGO-OBSOLETE THATS WHERE

What does that have to do with the subject at hand??? NOTHING!

[Guest]

What does GIS stand for?

[Skooter92 7]

GIS stands for Geographic Information System-it allows CAD users mapping, demographic and tracking information.

As for x635's response-way to go, xman. The county dispatch printout system was a loser as soon as enhanced digital paging came about. Instead of having a static printer available for paper tear-offs of limited info, we now have information available to multiple users on a mobile basis via text messaging, with further info available via fixed or mobile web access. And the failure to deploy the old system was due to the incompetence of the county's IT folks, not 60.

So there.

[hatr1k 6]

I am in an ambulance agency that gets dispatch by the local PD and let me tell ya I'm beyond ready and waiting to switch to county control Dispatch. Our district is within two differnet police department jurisdictions and things never go smoothly when one has to call the other to dispatch us, meanwhile haveing to keep the radio on one of the two police frequencies makeing simple scene observation imposible when a medic or police car gets there first (usually the case). central dispatch is the way to go...I could say much more on this but will leave it at that.

[msm232 69]

We have beat on this thread before and although the reasons for centralized dispatch are many and profound, you will continue to see PD's limp along dispatching agencies because there is $$$$ involved. There is no legitmate reason in a county like westchester, there can't be Centralized 911 communications. The sooner these agencies wake up, the better off the residents will be! Monroe County did it upstate. Stay safe..

[Guest]

We dispatch all 3 fire police and ems we answer all 911 calls and dispatch the necessary responce . Except for 911 cell phones> They go to State first who takes all the info>Then Get transfered to 60>60 takes all the info> who calls us via land line>We take all the information>Then we can dispatch the ambulance or fire dept. >Then we can call county police to let them know we are going to one of thier properties for a fire or ems call. Great system

911 cell calls for police get transfered from state directly to us.

You asked what is the best way, A single answering point capable of dispatching all necessary resources the fastest, is the best way to go. The key to all of this is fast. Get the address, nature, get them rolling then go back and follow up. That extra time transfering calls cost lives! make no mistake about it. Radios dont put out fires either. Should you need a dedicated dispatcher do that. Local control is always best. Send a trained person to your local psap. Let them deal with coordinating mutual aid w/60 and all that 10-8 ,10-2, 10-75- bs ,Retones for additionial man power, A driver for the ambulance is still needed after the 3rd dispatch for that heart attack victim. (mind boggling in the year 2005)

The next time your dispatched on the unknown medical on that dark street in your village, you know the one. You get that weazie feeling in your tummy, no police car is in front of the house, ask 60 about all past incidents involving weapons, domestics, gang activities and dangers to ems persons. See how gis and emd helps. You will wish you where on a police channel.

no quick solution here just a open line for communications

I'm pro police fire and ems

[dadbo46 50]

Lets think about this now.......

Single PSAP

Central Dispatch

Consolidation of PD's

Consoliditaion OF FD's

Countywide Medic services.....

Hhhhhmmmmmm.....save $$ and improve delivery of services ??????

I think we're on to something here.

[Remember585 815]

Tanker42 - what you are driving at is dead-on, for the most part.

If we could create one central answering point we would be golden. But, having one answering point PER COMMUNITY is a little redundant and insufficent, don't you think? And I honestly think we'll never see one 911 center in W.C. anytime soon.....

In smaller communities, such as those that make up the majority of Westchester County, it just doesn't make sense for one place to handle Fire, Police and EMS. There's several reasons. Manpower, money, resources, training and attitudes come to mind. For example, let's take "Anytown" and use it as an example.

Anytown is a 5 square mile village with a PD, Volunteer FD and VAC. The 911 center is staffed with an overwhelming ONE Police Officer. At 8:30 am on a Tuesday morning in October, a man on his way to work drives his car head-on into a school bus with 10 children on board. The phones start lighting up and the Desk Officer is quickly overwhelmed with 911 calls. The D.O. dispatches his only two Police units and an Ambulance, because he doesn't feel that FD is needed based on the info he has so far.

As the first PD unit arrives less then 2 minutes later, she radios to the desk that there is multiple injuries and that extrication is needed. At this point, while still getting 911 calls reporting the accident, the D.O. has to now dispatch the VAC's 2nd ambulance, the FD and a Medic unit. While in the middle of dispatching the FD, the PD unit on location starts screaming into the radio that there is one person not breathing, and to "expedite the medic." As the event progresses, the D.O. has to page / call in his Detectives and Accident Investigator. Being such a major incident, the D.O. has to call for help from SP and WCPD. The FD IC declared an MCI, and asked the D.O. to send an additional Engine to the scene and another to a nearby school to setup an LZ for Stat-Flight. While this incident is going on, the phones keep ringing at their usual pace with the usual PD business. However, thanks to the local radio station and TV channels, word is out that a school bus crashed in Anytown - so every parent is now calling the Police for info about their kids.

Mutual Aid ambulances from 5 nearby towns was requested. 3 additional Paramedics were called in. A total of 2 Helicopters were called to transport the critical. And, being that all FD resources were drained, a Mutual Aid Engine was relocated to Anytown FD HQ for coverage.

Now ask yourself this, can a single Desk Officer handle this much of a work load? No. Something like this will take the work of 3, 4 and even more dispatchers to properly mitigate. One Police Dispatcher to handle the PD work invovled. At least one dispatcher to handle the FD, another to handle EMS and someone has to be making phone calls to get all of these resources. You can take the best D.O. you have and give them this scenario, and I can almost guarantee their patience is going to be tested. The public, no matter where you are, can and will be a problem. Having people properly trained to handle these situations and that can get you all the resources you need is invaluable - hands down.

Don't get me wrong - I know many PD Officers that are great Desk Officers. Unfortunatly for them, they are left alone 90% of the time, and when the proverbial $hit hits the fan, they become overwhelmed quicker then you can say "I should of called in sick today."

Bottom line - like I've said a billion times - the days of local dispatch are behind us. This is a big, diverse county that needs to consolidate resources to further our capabilities to our customers. And, since nobody other then Yonkers, White Plains and Mount Vernon is really big enough to handle their own work, we should all be looking to merge our FD and EMS dispatches to one location, and let the Cops handle their own. Let's face it, the Police Departments in Westchester County do an outstanding job, but why should our needs be THERE JOB TOO?

[ems-buff 81]

And, since nobody other then Yonkers, White Plains and Mount Vernon is really big enough to handle their own work, we should all be looking to merge our FD and EMS dispatches to one location, and let the Cops handle their own. Let's face it, the Police Departments in Westchester County do an outstanding job, but why should our needs be THERE JOB TOO?

you are right i'm all for every Emergency service(ie fire ems) going to 60-control

what the point of haveing 60-control if not everyone is useing it.

Excellent Point Remeber585 :angry:

[Guest]

Excellent points... Wouldn't it be more feasible to have 60 control handle all the runs, rather than going through every rinky dink Polce Dept. and have them waste valuable time. There are just too many FD's, EMS agencies, PD's in this county, if we combined them and made a county FD, county Pd etc. WE would save $$$$$....Oh well, I know this topic is kinda off the thread so I'll leave it at that. The fact is from the input received by everyone, the way to go is obviously 60 Control without a doubt. It's time to get away from the PD's so we can dictate how we operate, and not letting them dictate our operations.

Again thank you for the input!!

[27east 19]

Lets think about this now.......

Single PSAP

Central Dispatch

Consolidation of PD's

Consoliditaion OF FD's

Countywide Medic services.....

Hhhhhmmmmmm.....save $$ and improve delivery of services ??????

I think we're on to something here.

Part of that sounds like the Westchester 2000 report.

Does anyone know where I could possibly read it or find it or something like that?

Edited August 24, 2005 by 23piraf

[Jared1979 19]

I am in an ambulance agency that gets dispatch by the local PD and let me tell ya I'm beyond ready and waiting to switch to county control Dispatch. Our district is within two differnet police department jurisdictions and things never go smoothly when one has to call the other to dispatch us, meanwhile haveing to keep the radio on one of the two police frequencies makeing simple scene observation imposible when a medic or police car gets there first (usually the case). central dispatch is the way to go...I could say much more on this but will leave it at that.

I agree with you having a central dispatch is more reliable than having local pds tone out ems or fire. alot of times page outs by police are hard to understand because of static. When 60-control pages out they sound clear. 60-control uses a computer system to transmit the tones which is 100% more accurate then the technology that is used by police depts who dispatch volunteer fire depts. Many depts in westchester use 60-control as their primary dispatch and they like using them. Its all about making sure that the emergency personnel get to the scene quickly and safely.