Mask's when doing over haul.

[Guest]

Ok during over haul you have fumes, gasses, chemicals, and other possible toxic substances in side a house. Some one made a very good point that during over haul there should be a pack of little white face mask's that you can put on when u go in side to do over haul. cause most of the time you wont be on air when doing over haul so you will be breathing in all those bad substances. you could get thoses mask's in whole sale about 100- 500 and keep them somse place on a rig to have just in case

[Guest alsfirefighter]

First...who came up with this? It makes no sense whatsoever.

Those little white masks are only good for fine particulate matter. They do not filter out carbon monoxide, hydrogen cyanide, phosgene and the multitude of other noxious and poisonous gases that occur during the combustion process and linger long afterward. Not to mention that you may be performing these duties in a oxygen deficient environment, one that is still considered a or potential IDLH atmosphere which by the OSHA respiratory protection standard is a requirement for the use of Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus.

Second: "Cause most of the time you won't be on air while your doing overhaul."

This ties into the first, as I already mentioned that operating in a potentially IDLH atmosphere requires SCBA use. SCBA should be donned until the environment has been evaluated by the use of a multi-gas detector. Not to mention that it will also protect your face and eyes much better then any face shield and if you wear borque's forget it. Read up on some recent Fire Engineering articles concerning the amount of hydrogen cyanide that they have been finding in tests conducted on firefighters and in environments operated on at real structure fire sites and what levels they are finding we are taking in and the long term effects of even low level chronic exposures can or even worse is doing to us.

[Guest WolfEMT]

Yeah, I have to agree with ALS here. SCBAs are there for your protection, both during and after the fire. There's all kinds of crap floating around in the air, the molecules of which are often too small to be stopped by the little white face masks. Using your SCBA is the most logical and safest way to protect yourself. Anything less, and you're probably running a big risk, health-wise and safety-wise.

[x242Steve 1]

There was an article I read not long ago about how breathing the gasses that are present during Overhaul has led to a rise in the cancer rate (particularly Bladder cancer, believe it or not) in firefighters.

Just because you can't see it or taste it doesn't mean its not there.

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

There was an article I read not long ago about how breathing the gasses that are present during Overhaul has led to a rise in the cancer rate (particularly Bladder cancer, believe it or not) in firefighters.

Just because you can't see it or taste it doesn't mean its not there. 

Those white mask are to block out particles, not gases. Use your SCBA. Taking short cuts only endangers you.

[Remember585 815]

I agree about wearing the SCBA during overhaul. Does it happen, hardly ever. And I am not talking about one specific area, I am talking about every fire scene I have been to throughout my life. I really can not recall any incident where the SCBA are donned by everyone during overhaul. Is it because we are afraid of looking like wussies? Is it the "un-cool" thing to do? I even got my balls busted about bringing in the multi-gas meter during overhaul to monitor the air we were working in.

Safety may not seem cool to you, but how cool is it to get permanent damage to your body, or worse, to die, for no reason?!

What's that saying I've seen here...something about no greater honor in dying for someone's life.....but to do so checking for hotspots.....I don't think so.

[lickeystickey 1]

What about people at dumpster fires who say they do not need a pack because the wind is blowing the smoke away from them

[Mofire24 27]

even at dumpster fires everyone should wear airpacks because you dont know what chemicals or debris is in that dumpster. It could be anthing from frion to pool chemicals dont take any chances wear your mask.

[Guest SQUADco119]

I for one am guilty of not wearing my mask during overhual at some fires and to be honest atleast from my standpoint i dont think its becuase im afraid of not being cool or being called a woos i think its becuase the fire conditions have decreased especially when your on initial attack overhual seems like everything is ok the smoke is lessened even though the toxins may still be present u can see better then before while battling the fire. As we all know overhual is the deadliest time for firefighters for one like i just mentioned we take our air off becuase everything seems ok but the gases could kill without warning and do harm in the future to our system as we heard in recent posts. Not only to mention that the white mask is a ludicrous idea when we have a piece of equipment that we just wore while the fire was still ripping and the chief spends thousands of dollars to help protect us why not wear it. Hell overhual just isnt the problem ive seen firefighters even in todays age without a pack on trying to fight the fire on initial attack. Its on the rig use it. We wear i turnout gear lets get in the habit including myself of not just wearing the pack but donning it, your next fire during overhual be the guy with air on maybe everyone else will follow if not then thats thier problem.

[FDNY 10-75 640]

Last night while at a drill, I had the high pressure line on a brand new SCOTT 4.5 blow, that scared me. After that, I ate car fire smoke for the rest of the night. Not very pleasant. The line blowing could have been much worse, but the smoke probably did more damage to me than anything. Anyway, as many of you can tolerate it, the particles and noxious gases that come with the process of combustion are extremely harmful to your body. Whether they will cause cancer in the long run, or just suffocate you, they all cause nasty problems that could be prevented by donning a mask and pack.

Just remember, don't panic if a line blows, this isn't the first one on our new packs that has blown.

Edited October 12, 2005 by FDNY 10-75

[ny10570 745]

SCBA is cumbersom and heavy. Plus, after a few evolutions through a fire the last thing anyone wants to do is put that beast back on. You can achieve safe standards of airquality with the right respirators. Keep a few on the rigs with replacement canisters and you have hours of light weight lung protection. Another even easier way to help us along durring overhaul is forced air ventilation. Crank those fans up and get the air moving. Both of these are recognized by OSHA as acceptable ways to improve airquality in a workspace. Because lets face it. In the fire service we are painfully slow at effcting change. Especially change that requires more work. Untill we get everyone working on air, lets see about implementing these protection ideas.

[cas2383 22]

air monitoring as well as ppv also decrease the risk of inhaling harmful substances, whever there is a question always revert to your pack.

[Guest]

WE all know that people dont always wear there SCBA'S inside maybe if they would wear these little white ones they can still reduce lots of harmfull things. i mean its better than not having any thing on right so if you can get at least 50 people to wear the white ones if they wont wear there SCBA'S its better than nothing.

[TRUCK6018 50]

its better than nothing.

←

No it's not, the little white masks are useless for smoke situations. There is no substitute for SCBA.

It's bad enough that is someone gets smoked as a result of not wearing SCBA, OSHA could be paying you a visit. If they read the firefighter casualty report and see a particle mask was used, they'd fine the department for stupidity. If they'd read that no respiratory protection was used, then you only be fined for ignorance.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Don't take offense to this snapshot, but this is where your inexperience shows. No its not better then nothing and when it comes down to it, wearing your SCBA isn't a personal choice in most cases. There is no such thing that someone "won't" wear their SCBA. This is a management issue, leadership by example, you tell them to put it on. They say no, they are told to leave the building, they give you lip, adios for 2 weeks. Keep running their mouth, 2nd offense automatic 30 days. Complacency and improper safety and tactics is a disease that will spread faster then cancer. So again, no its not better then nothing, much of what will hurt you has nothing to due with carbon based particulates in smoke, its the colorless, odorless, non-irritating gases that those little masks won't filter and will embed its vapors in the absorbant material. Things like Carbon Monoxide, Hydrogen Cyanide and Phosgene just to name a few. Sound like its better then nothing now? Do you know what these gases do to you and your body?

[firecapt32 282]

Dont you just love the way alsfirefighter puts things!!!! dont ever hold back!! tell it like it is the mask is there to protect you and you and you. Fire Chiefs should lead by example, training officers the same thing make them wear the masks.

Do some research find out the latest cancer rates among firefighters then see if you still want to take that mask off. Tell the Department Doctor to get you a few pics of a lung or stomach or a throat that has been ravaged by a cancer that firefighters are prone to get, then see if you want to take that mask off.

just my 2 cents