The maneuverability strength of a Tractor Drawn Aerial vs. Aerial Platform

[x635 4,066]

 

[antiquefirelt 994]

Thinking it might have been a bit better with a MM than the RM? That front overhang is killer. Of course the MM tailslap is an issue, but I'd bet a MM could make it in one shot. 

[fdalumnus 165]

TDA's are the best when it comes to maneuvering, no question about it. I concur with Firelt, a MM would probably make the swing. I myself could never see the advantage of a RM Bucket vs the MM. But then again, my experience is only with a TDA and a MM. Maybe those who have experience with the RM can enlighten us.

[bigrig77 95]

That's a great video showing how pre-planning your area before purchasing a rig is always a great idea. I think that while great, most departments don't have the man power to operate the tiller. In Westchester, most are lucky to get one guy on the rig. Does the Officer drive the front or the back? It sucks to bring up staffing but its the hard truth when it comes to these apparatus.

[dwcfireman 656]

36 minutes ago, bigrig77 said:

 Does the Officer drive the front or the back?

 

The Officer is still in the shotgun seat.  A TDA just requires a second driver in the rear, and usually the drivers and officer are connected through headsets so they can communicate about upcoming turns/traffic/directions.

 

[SECTMB 612]

Pooler is the City next to where I live now. The Pierce tiller is brand new along with 5 new Pierce engines. The tiller is in their new HQ which just opened last month.

They now have three stations, all new, and a fourth is under construction at this time.  The City has doubled in size over the past 10 years. 

 

When I was checking out their new engines they told me about the tiller coming in. There are a lot of condo and apartment complexes in the City and they wanted a tiller for its manueverability in the tight parking lots.  

 

[bigrig77 95]

Just now, dwcfireman said:

 

The Officer is still in the shotgun seat.  A TDA just requires a second driver in the rear, and usually the drivers and officer are connected through headsets so they can communicate about upcoming turns/traffic/directions.

 

 

So basically out of the question for all departments in Westchester except the cities. I do know how the rig works, but the point was that most places are not gonna hire another guy to the squads to man that seat.

[LayTheLine 108]

I believe there are models of TDA's that have a pin in them. If you only have one driver and no tiller-man, the truck can be driven as a straight ladder. If you've got both drivers, you remove the pin and bingo, you're into a TDA. Best of both worlds; however, I can't speak to the maneuverability when the pin is in. Cool video anyhow. Watch it again and see how the rear of the TDA just misses the garbage can on the right side of the road. Looks like inches!!

Edited February 23, 2017 by LayTheLine

[Bnechis 3,961]

1 hour ago, bigrig77 said:

 

So basically out of the question for all departments in Westchester except the cities. I do know how the rig works, but the point was that most places are not gonna hire another guy to the squads to man that seat.

I'm sorry but if you can not staff a ladder with at least a driver and tillerman, then maybe you should not burden your community with the cost of a fully equipped ladder ($1- $1.5 M). Your ladder needs at least enough staffing to do truck work 

[vodoly 535]

5 hours ago, Bnechis said:

I'm sorry but if you can not staff a ladder with at least a driver and tillerman, then maybe you should not burden your community with the cost of a fully equipped ladder ($1- $1.5 M). Your ladder needs at least enough staffing to do truck work 

There are Rear mount Sticks  going for 1.5 million too Cliffside Park NJ runs a tiller   They went with a tiller due to some tight streets on the south end of Boro as well as in Fairview where they are Fast team  I have heard of their chief at the time actually tillering so Truck gets out But they have excellent plan B they can respond with thier squirt when short on tillerman 

[savff 26]

7 hours ago, SECTMB said:

Pooler is the City next to where I live now. The Pierce tiller is brand new along with 5 new Pierce engines. The tiller is in their new HQ which just opened last month.

They now have three stations, all new, and a fourth is under construction at this time.  The City has doubled in size over the past 10 years. 

 

When I was checking out their new engines they told me about the tiller coming in. There are a lot of condo and apartment complexes in the City and they wanted a tiller for its manueverability in the tight parking lots.  

 

Actually, we have four stations and bought 4 new engines with the tiller.  A fifth station is about to start construction. The tower was purchased after it was "turned in" (repo) by another department in the Northeast. It is an 09 that we got in 2015. It is an awesome truck and we get a GREAT price. The biggest issue for us is currently we only have the engines and the tiller staffed so the tiller is our ladder and rescue company. The apartment complexes, new shopping center/commercial and amount of traffic accidents in our area. really drove the purchase. We cover about 9 miles of Interstate 95 each direction and about 7 of Interstate 16. Our future plan includes staffing station 5 (2018), then staffing a second ladder in 2019 hopefully (2009 Tower). Until then the tower will be our reserve.

[Bnechis 3,961]

27 minutes ago, vodoly said:

 I have heard of their chief at the time actually tillering so Truck gets out But they have excellent plan B they can respond with thier squirt when short on tillerman 

So if the chief drives, who runs the fire? Or does he park the truck and not have anyone doing laddering, FE, SAR, vent, salvage and overhaul?

 

i am sorry but showing up with a one man squirt instead of a ladder COMPANY is not an excellent plan!, it's covering up a departments shortfalls so the public doesn't know you are faking it!

 

save my baby! Save my baby! ...... I'm sorry ma'am but we brought the toy truck instead of the big expensive one that we told all the taxpayers we had to have to protect you. 

[FireMedic049 597]

9 hours ago, LayTheLine said:

I believe there are models of TDA's that have a pin in them. If you only have one driver and no tiller-man, the truck can be driven as a straight ladder. If you've got both drivers, you remove the pin and bingo, you're into a TDA. Best of both worlds; however, I can't speak to the maneuverability when the pin is in. Cool video anyhow. Watch it again and see how the rear of the TDA just misses the garbage can on the right side of the road. Looks like inches!!

If I'm not mistaken, the feature that you are describing allows the rear steer axle to be locked and this allows the vehicle to be operated with a single driver, but it's more like driving a tractor-trailer than a straight ladder.

[FireMedic049 597]

2 hours ago, vodoly said:

There are Rear mount Sticks  going for 1.5 million too Cliffside Park NJ runs a tiller   They went with a tiller due to some tight streets on the south end of Boro as well as in Fairview where they are Fast team  I have heard of their chief at the time actually tillering so Truck gets out But they have excellent plan B they can respond with thier squirt when short on tillerman 

Leaving your (100' ladder) tiller behind and taking the much smaller squirt because you lack a tillerman is not what I'd consider to be an "excellent plan B".

[fdalumnus 165]

10 hours ago, LayTheLine said:

I believe there are models of TDA's that have a pin in them. If you only have one driver and no tiller-man, the truck can be driven as a straight ladder. If you've got both drivers, you remove the pin and bingo, you're into a TDA. Best of both worlds; however, I can't speak to the maneuverability when the pin is in. Cool video anyhow. Watch it again and see how the rear of the TDA just misses the garbage can on the right side of the road. Looks like inches!!

 

The pin is there for delivery of the apparatus and taking it for maintenance not for responding to an emergency. Without a tillerman, all the advantages of a TDA are lost.

[vodoly 535]

2 hours ago, FireMedic049 said:

Leaving your (100' ladder) tiller behind and taking the much smaller squirt because you lack a tillerman is not what I'd consider to be an "excellent plan B".

To be more precise there was a mutual aid call Where they were call in as Fast team they did not have a tiller man so they responded with the squirt The incident where chief tillered was also a mutual aid call for truck request  You are correct it's not a good plan b 

Edited February 23, 2017 by vodoly

[LayTheLine 108]

Very discouraging... This post was just showing the difference in maneuverability, no about manning and plan B and all the other complaints voiced here. I've only been on this forum for less than a year and just about every post ends up going off topic and bashing the fire service for all the problems there are. News Flash - The general public has access to this forum, it's not a password protected spot. When they read it and, more importantly, when the town fathers and managers read this they must think "what a bunch of lunk heads. No need worrying about them at town meeting because they can't agree on anything and don't get along with each other."

 

Open discussion is good when done in a positive way. But the negative comments and the Monday Morning Quarterbacking on this forum is ridiculous.

 

Getting back to the post: It was a very good video which I learned a lot from in 2 1/2 minutes. Yes, there are different types of ladders with advantages and disadvantages to all of them and that's a good and valid discussion.  FireMedic049, thanks for explaining how the tiller becomes more of a tractor-trailer than a straight stick when the rear wheels are locked. Something else I just learned.

 

Anyway, have at it boys, I've got better things to do!

[savff 26]

11 hours ago, FireMedic049 said:

If I'm not mistaken, the feature that you are describing allows the rear steer axle to be locked and this allows the vehicle to be operated with a single driver, but it's more like driving a tractor-trailer than a straight ladder.

They do have that feature. It is designed so the truck can go to maintenance or repair. It isn't designed for regular use, It is only a cotter pin.

[FireMedic049 597]

2 hours ago, savff said:

They do have that feature. It is designed so the truck can go to maintenance or repair. It isn't designed for regular use, It is only a cotter pin.

Yeah, that was already covered.