(Video) Garfield NJ 2nd Alarm 11/20/16

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http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/11/20/garfield-new-jersey-fire/

[antiquefirelt 994]

Sorry, maybe I'm missing a whole lot, but WTF!!! No one could figure out how to prevent the fire from getting inside? Maybe hit the eaves and let the water wash down the siding from a safe point away from the power? Hell dry chemical upon arrival? Seems like maybe getting inside in the rooms with windows directly being exposed to the outside fire might have been a good idea? Amateur hour in NJ? 

[LayTheLine 108]

We all get Monday morning quarterbacked to death. I prefer the standard answer of, "I don't know happened, I wasn't there. It's not place to criticize." 

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11 hours ago, LayTheLine said:

We all get Monday morning quarterbacked to death. I prefer the standard answer of, "I don't know happened, I wasn't there. It's not place to criticize." 

 

I have to disagree here and agree with antiquefirelt, Get inside with drychem to at least slow the advance. Been there done that, kept a room and contents in check with a 5lb dry chem until the first engine arrived.  How about getting a rope line around the wire and pulling it off to a safe distance? Sometimes Monday morning analysis, in a nice way, can inspire some changes.  And, back to some prior forum discussions, this I why I think local utility companies need to have a 24/7 rapid response truck, lights and sirens, to respond for cases just like this.  These utility workers have specialized training, I don't think it would be a stretch to train them in emergency driving. 

[LayTheLine 108]

Yes, I agree if done in a constructive and nice way. Asking WTF? or is this amateur hour? is not constructive or nice. Using decency and respect should be paramount when talking to or about other firefighters & their actions. To do otherwise makes us look like a bunch of lunkheads. 

[antiquefirelt 994]

7 hours ago, LayTheLine said:

Yes, I agree if done in a constructive and nice way. Asking WTF? or is this amateur hour? is not constructive or nice. Using decency and respect should be paramount when talking to or about other firefighters & their actions. To do otherwise makes us look like a bunch of lunkheads. 

I'll admit maybe that was a bit harsh, but I was hoping to evoke a bit of discussion here. Sadly everyone has gotten so PC that we can't have a frank discussion about tactics without worrying about offending people. Gone are the days of right and wrong, left for the kinder gentler FS who is tolerant of excuses and poor performance.  It is hard not to disparage the actions or lack of action when you have 8 minutes of fire growth going unopposed despite a large FD presence. Admittedly we don't know all the factors, but I hope someone knows something about it. I'll happily eat a plate of crow if someone can serve it.

[LayTheLine 108]

I agree that some very good points were brought up on what they could have done. Rope to pull the wire back, Inside hose lines at the window, apply water at the eaves and let it wash down the side, etc.  It would be interesting to know the full story. Here's a similar story that happened to me when I was a rookie. I don't remember all the particulars because I was just trying not to get myself killed!

 

Rainy night, high winds. Service wire to the house broke off and landed in the aluminum gutter, Arcing and sparking. Electric company was requested. We entered the house to search and check for extension. As everyone was doing their job, a couple people said they were getting static type shocks.  Someone (a lot smarter than me) realized that all the metal surfaces (refrigerator, stove, washer, dryer, screen door) were charged with a low level of electricity. In essence, the whole house had electricity running through it, including the aluminum siding. The chief ordered everyone out of the building and to stand clear. The electric company was  again requested - stat. The fire started smoldering under the roof shingles and smoke began coming from the eaves. The power company showed up and killed the power. We went back in and a crew was sent to the roof. We were able to extinguish the fire with minimal damage to the house. I never saw anything like that before and I've never seen it happen since.

 

In retrospect, the chief probably could have ordered someone to throw a rope over the dangling line and stand back 50 feet and pull it out of the gutter. If I recall, he didn't want to put anyone in jeopardy by pulling the line down and then having it dance around on the wet ground and zapping someone. We probably could have extended the ladder to the peak of the roof and squirt water onto the peak and let it run down over the shingles. But with the high winds, the rain, and the electrically charged house, the chief was taking no chances whatsoever and backed everyone away. The owners weren't happy when the smoke began coming from the roof line, but the chief wasn't budging. I have never experienced the "burden of command", but he was holding his ground. He probably would have rather explained to the owners why their house burned down than to go to a firefighters house and tell the firefighter's spouse that he had been killed.

 

With everything to be considered I would have to side with the (now retired) chief that night; but was there a Plan B available to us that we should have used? A tough call....

[antiquefirelt 994]

Interesting that a few people noted "throwing a rope over the wire and moving it". Anyone actually done this? I've always thought that the risk of the rope being a conductor would be too great, or the end contact with something else might cause uncontrollable arcing that could be more hazardous than the current condition? The Fire Chief here when I started my career job was a master electrician. He was more aggressive than most and taught us to be when it came to working around live lines/wires, but most of the confidence in those lessons left when he did.