Arlington FD Bans Flags on Fire Apparatus

[Flashpoint 94]

 

Quote

 

Tonight, the board majority of the Arlington Fire District directed Chief Tory Gallante to have American flags removed from two fire trucks. Gallante says that there was no official vote taken, but three board members were in favor of removing the flags, two were not.

 

On background: Gallante says the union asked him recently if they could display American flags on the rear of two fire trucks. Gallante granted them permission to do so, as long as the flags were properly and safely secured. The union purchased the flags.

 

Gallante declined to comment on specifics of why the board majority directed the removal of the flags but said he is “very disappointed with their direction.”

 

I will be reaching out to board members tomorrow to get their views on this.

 

 

[SECTMB 612]

I personally believe there is a concerted effort on the part of many to shut down expressions of patriotism.  This appears especially true in Government controlled/supervised areas where bureaucrats can direct these expressions be removed from publicly owned or subsidized properties.

 

I believe it is part and parcel with the 'all inclusive' philosophy that seeks to stifle our ability to have a common language, our own customs and a defined border.

[fire patrol nyc 153]

One would hope there was a good reason,but i can't think of one.......PC?......god save us from ourselves....joe....911 first responder

[gamewell45 258]

1 hour ago, fire patrol nyc said:

One would hope there was a good reason,but i can't think of one.......PC?......god save us from ourselves....joe....911 first responder

While this obviously is a show of patriotic display, there are strict guidelines contained within the US Flag code for the proper display of the flag and displaying the flag as they have (and many other departments have as well) is considered in violation of the code.  I'm including a link which shows the proper way to display the American Flag.

 

http://www.legion.org/flag/code

[Bnechis 3,961]

I have read on a number of sites the backlash, almost all based on the board being unpatriotic or trying to be PC.

 

Beyond, what the board reported as being a safety issue, no one knows what the motivation is. 

 

But, I have witnessed, flags getting larger and larger on the back of rigs, to the point that we are disrespectful of the flag.

 

On engines, I have witnessed hose being laid over a flag that's so large that without wind or driving it hung below the level of the bed.

 

On ladders, I have witnessed grease and tattered ends on the flag where it whips against the turntable gear. I have also seen where it rubs on ground ladders as they are moved in and out of the ladder tunnel.

 

On all rigs, I have seen filthy flags, because the dirt that swirls around the rear of the rigs.

 

On the safety side, I have seen them hiding flashing safety lights, turn signals and break lights. Saw one get burned by high intensity flood lights and have seen firefighters grabbing the flag to help them climb the rig.

 

This is not patriotic, nor is it how the flag should be respected! I am not saying they should be removed, but consider how we are displaying them.

[SECTMB 612]

18 hours ago, gamewell45 said:

While this obviously is a show of patriotic display, there are strict guidelines contained within the US Flag code for the proper display of the flag and displaying the flag as they have (and many other departments have as well) is considered in violation of the code.  I'm including a link which shows the proper way to display the American Flag.

 

http://www.legion.org/flag/code

 

This also shows the proper times for flying the flag at half staff.  Something that is being done too often for inappropriate reasons.

[COH Bulldog 82]

We have small flags on the back of our engines. They are small enough that they do not interfere with any operation of the apparatus (hose deployment, lights, etc.). I agree with the comments above that maybe some people are getting a little carried away with the size of flags being used.

[COH Bulldog 82]

And I don't agree with outright banning them altogether.

[SECTMB 612]

Not only did O'Reilly cover this on his show tonight, my local Savannah news station covered it.

[dwcfireman 656]

I actually prefer smaller flags that are on the right bumper indicator posts.  Large flags off the rear or the rig are generally in the way, and like Barry said, tend to get filthy.

 

[fire2141 33]

Some of the outrage may have been sparked by what happened in Coventry Rhode Island when a commissioner there stated "They look like a bunch of yahoos," Gralinski said at a board meeting. "Like in the paper, like ISIS is Syria going to take over a city. I don't think they need that big flag on the back of the truck. That's not America to me. Those are a bunch of terrorists. So, I'm going to ask you to take the flag off the truck." I think this recent flag ban may be a thinly veiled attempt by the Arlington commissioners to do the same. I support the flags, especially at a time when the country is so divided.

 

http://turnto10.com/news/local/central-coventry-fire-district-asked-to-remove-american-flags-from-trucks

[INIT915 1,119]

On 8/16/2016 at 6:20 PM, Bnechis said:

I have read on a number of sites the backlash, almost all based on the board being unpatriotic or trying to be PC.

 

Beyond, what the board reported as being a safety issue, no one knows what the motivation is. 

 

But, I have witnessed, flags getting larger and larger on the back of rigs, to the point that we are disrespectful of the flag.

 

On engines, I have witnessed hose being laid over a flag that's so large that without wind or driving it hung below the level of the bed.

 

On ladders, I have witnessed grease and tattered ends on the flag where it whips against the turntable gear. I have also seen where it rubs on ground ladders as they are moved in and out of the ladder tunnel.

 

On all rigs, I have seen filthy flags, because the dirt that swirls around the rear of the rigs.

 

On the safety side, I have seen them hiding flashing safety lights, turn signals and break lights. Saw one get burned by high intensity flood lights and have seen firefighters grabbing the flag to help them climb the rig.

 

This is not patriotic, nor is it how the flag should be respected! I am not saying they should be removed, but consider how we are displaying them.

 

Do not try an introduce open-mindedness, common sense or any attempt to try to get to the bottom of this story. It will delay the mob mentality response, which must proceed unabated! Flying off the handle at the slightest slight, real, perceived or completely imagined, is the way to get things done!

[fire2141 33]

26 minutes ago, INIT915 said:

 

Do not try an introduce open-mindedness, common sense or any attempt to try to get to the bottom of this story. It will delay the mob mentality response, which must proceed unabated! Flying off the handle at the slightest slight, real, perceived or completely imagined, is the way to get things done!

Maybe some of us that live in the area and have friends in Arlington FD have a better picture as to what's actually going on there. If the chief as well as the chauffer's have no issues, why then the commissioners? Who better then them knows what's safe or not.  Remember, these people are in the public safety business. Last I knew commissioners weren't driving the apparatus. People are burning flags across the country and when our brothers answer their final call and there coffins are draped with them this flag ban stings even more. This is arbitrary and capricious. If the size of the flags were an issue then how about a smaller flag rather than an all out ban?

[INIT915 1,119]

4 minutes ago, fire2141 said:

Maybe some of us that live in the area and have friends in Arlington FD have a better picture as to what's actually going on there. If the chief as well as the chauffer's have no issues, why then the commissioners? Who better then them knows what's safe or not.  Remember, these people are in the public safety business. Last I knew commissioners weren't driving the apparatus. People are burning flags across the country and when our brothers answer their final call and there coffins are draped with them this flag ban stings even more. This is arbitrary and capricious. If the size of the flags were an issue then how about a smaller flag rather than an all out ban?

 

OK, so enlighten us with your "inside information."

[fire2141 33]

1 hour ago, INIT915 said:

 

OK, so enlighten us with your "inside information."

some things are better off not said.

[Bnechis 3,961]

3 hours ago, fire2141 said:

....If the chief as well as the chauffer's have no issues, why then the commissioners? Who better then them knows what's safe or not.  Remember, these people are in the public safety business. Last I knew commissioners weren't driving the apparatus.

You are correct, the commissioners are not driving the apparatus, but they are charged with setting department policy.

 

and even if the policies they set are improper or even outright wrong it is still their legal roll to do it.

[dwcfireman 656]

On 8/18/2016 at 8:43 AM, INIT915 said:

 

Do not try an introduce open-mindedness, common sense or any attempt to try to get to the bottom of this story. It will delay the mob mentality response, which must proceed unabated! Flying off the handle at the slightest slight, real, perceived or completely imagined, is the way to get things done!

 

If you're trying to win the internet, you're doing a swell job!

 

On 8/18/2016 at 10:53 AM, fire2141 said:

some things are better off not said.

 

If you didn't want to share information in the first place, then why say anything at all?  The situation probably isn't about the actual flag itself, rather safety or regulation issues that the commissioners were addressing.  If it's a safety issue, like blocking warning/hazard lights or getting in the way of hosebeds and ladders, then there's plenty of reason to remove the flag from the rear of the apparatus.  If it's a regulation issue, then read Title 4 of the United States Code.  It's the entire LAW pertaining to the Flag, and it does state how it WILL be attached to a motor vehicle if the owner (the commissioners) choose to do so.

[mustang22_2002 21]

The commissioners do not own the vehicles ... the tax payers do !!!

[Bnechis 3,961]

9 hours ago, mustang22_2002 said:

The commissioners do not own the vehicles ... the tax payers do !!!

But the taxpayers have given the commissioners total control of them. The only say the taxpayers have is voting for one commissioner each year and an up or down bond vote to purchase.

[AFS1970 504]

While I agree that many of the flags we see displayed are being displayed improperly, the fact remains that the flags in Arlington were ordered removed, not relocated. This is absolutely an attempt to stifle patriotism. If the real concern were to display the flag according to the US Code then that would be an easy enough policy to write. If anyone in this country actually wanted to follow the law about flags, then we would arrest everyone wearing an Old Navy 4th of July T-Shirt, because the flag is never supposed to be used to advertise commercial goods or services. Then again our flag should not be lowered to half staff for music performers who die from self inflicted drug overdoses, nor for foreign nationals, especially when killed oversees and not on US soil, yet both have been happened in recent memory.

 

If I lived in Arlington I would certainly attend the next commission meeting and ask many questions, especially if they start the meeting with a pledge of allegiance to the very flag they don't want displayed on apparatus.

 

Just to show that I am not beating a dead horse, it appears that the issue has been resolved somewhat:

 

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We have agreed to install a flag on an engine and continue to work together to develop a standard and protocol,” said Board of Fire Commissioners Chairman James Beretta; Tory Gallante, the fire chief; and union president Joseph Tarquinio in the statement

 

 

Quote

In a joint statement, County Executive Marcus Molinaro, Sheriff Adrian “Butch” Anderson, Poughkeepsie Town Supervisor Jay Baisley and Poughkeepsie Town Police Chief Ron Spero, said, “Firefighters displaying the American flag is tradition and it’s appropriate.
“We are heartened the Arlington Fire District Fire chief and district board chairman were able to sit down and resolve this issue."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2016 by AFS1970

[Bnechis 3,961]

17 hours ago, AFS1970 said:

While I agree that many of the flags we see displayed are being displayed improperly, the fact remains that the flags in Arlington were ordered removed, not relocated. This is absolutely an attempt to stifle patriotism. If the real concern were to display the flag according to the US Code then that would be an easy enough policy to write.

"Absolutely an attempt to stifle patriotism" or this is a labor management thing, where the board is flexing its muscles?

 

a lot of people have assumed the first and most are blind to any other possibility 

 

[AFS1970 504]

51 minutes ago, Bnechis said:

"Absolutely an attempt to stifle patriotism" or this is a labor management thing, where the board is flexing its muscles?

 

a lot of people have assumed the first and most are blind to any other possibility 

 

 

I can sort of see the labor relations angle, but if that is it, then it is even worse. To use and abuse patriotism for such an agenda, on either side, is more than distasteful. Citizenship is never a matter for negotiation, and those that think it is should not be elected to office.

[shfd86 1]

This is bologna we meaning all firefighters should have the right to fly r countries flag the country we protect and serve on a daily basis. Put the flags on the trucks it's  are rights they r not a distraction. 

[antiquefirelt 994]

20 hours ago, Bnechis said:

"Absolutely an attempt to stifle patriotism" or this is a labor management thing, where the board is flexing its muscles?

 

a lot of people have assumed the first and most are blind to any other possibility 

 

I was thinking along those lines. Anti-patriotism among more that 2 commissioners? Really? I'd find it unlikely that any board involved in emergency service would have an anti-American slant. There are plenty of reasons this may have come about, most are likley the result of fear of some sort of reprisal: Some citizen complains that responding into their neighborhood waiving the flag is seen as a type of "invasion" while their neighborhood is in America (some people think strange things).