Village Of Port Chester Disbands Career FD

[FireMedic049 597]

23 hours ago, Dinosaur said:

Problem is they're saying that the eight victims of this "supplemented" the volunteer force.  So they're claiming that there's no substantial change in coverage by eliminating the eight career guys. 

 

 

Obviously there was a reason they "supplimented" their volunteer force with career positions.  I doubt that that reason no longer exists.

 

Unless the volunteers are going to staff (in station) every single minute each career guy worked, then any claim that this isn't a substantial change in coverage is blatantly false.

[dwcfireman 656]

1 hour ago, Oaks said:

Did Port Chester participate in the Airport drill today? I've seen Engine 58 there on emergencies and drills in the past. That's another part of Port Chester's jurisdiction that I hope speaks up....I'm sure the airport ARFF guys would rather see an engine for mutual aid sooner then later.

 

 

AS one of the airport guys, I'll answer this one for you.  They were at the drill today (E62, L32, R40, and I believe 2393).  Under the previous circumstances Engine 58 would not respond to the airport for alerts (as far as I have noticed).  However, E59 would respond while it was on duty for Rye Brook at night (RB would respond with E14 while they're on duty).  And, quite honestly, there is no effect on the response for the airport with situation at hand here.  Between all of the other agencies involved within our emergency response plan (ERP) we have fair coverage for the majority of our aircraft alerts.  But here's why  the lack of an engine wouldn't hurt the airport:  WE NEED MANPOWER!  Under our ERP we require any piece of apparatus to come out to the airfield with a FULL crew.  That means if 3 engines show up with 2 firefighters each, we want you to abandon two engines to staff one.  In essence, we really don't care how many pieces of fire apparatus show up, we need manpower, tools, and a buttload of ambulances!

 

As far as this situation with the paid firefighters in PC being "laid off,"  the Local at the airport supports their efforts to regain their jobs (and as the Representative I can assure that we do have our brothers and sisters in our thoughts and prayers, and hope for the best of this situation).

[MiFF 23]

Just out of curiosity what did the full timers do on down time. Besides truck checks and station chores of course. Did they run on ems runs as first responders? Did they do building inspections or install smoke detectors? Did they attend and represent the department at community events? 

 

How many calls does PCFD run. How many fires?

 

Haven't read much about resident reactions. Has there been outcry from a lot of residents? The pictures and video i've seen show alot of firefighters at the rallies. I understand union solidarity and brotherhood but if the taxpayers don't care or for some reason don't want the fulltimers then no union or rally will ever get them back on the job in that town.

[Chkpoint 131]

Does PC really need 7 pieces of Engine apparatus?  Probably not but that's a whole other story - towns keeping with traditions of we had 5,6,7 engines for decades so we still need them.  Times and technology change.  Probably get away with 4 engines in PC and consolidate manpower.  Same in places like village of Mamaroneck. Both with 4,5 fire houses do we need that in a small town?    But what do I know.  

[Dinosaur 844]

On 5/8/2016 at 8:28 PM, Oaks said:

Did Port Chester participate in the Airport drill today? I've seen Engine 58 there on emergencies and drills in the past. That's another part of Port Chester's jurisdiction that I hope speaks up....I'm sure the airport ARFF guys would rather see an engine for mutual aid sooner then later.

 

 

None of the airport is in the Village of Port Chester.  Part of it may be in Rye Brook but the majority is in Harrison and North Castle.

[SECTMB 612]

11 hours ago, Chkpoint said:

Does PC really need 7 pieces of Engine apparatus?  Probably not but that's a whole other story - towns keeping with traditions of we had 5,6,7 engines for decades so we still need them.  Times and technology change.  Probably get away with 4 engines in PC and consolidate manpower.  Same in places like village of Mamaroneck. Both with 4,5 fire houses do we need that in a small town?    But what do I know.  

 

Many of the older towns/villages whose departments go back over 100 years have many individual fire companies. One reason was social, however another reason was/is response. 

 

A central station is fine for a paid department whose personnel is in house, but for a volunteer department whose members must respond from various locations, having multiple stations and apparatus can reduce response time.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

On 5/8/2016 at 3:50 AM, MiFF said:

Just out of curiosity what did the full timers do on down time. Besides truck checks and station chores of course. Did they run on ems runs as first responders? Did they do building inspections or install smoke detectors? Did they attend and represent the department at community events? 

 

As I understand it, fire inspections are handled by the "Code Enforcement" department.

[nfd2004 750]

As most in the fire service outside the Port Chester area, many of us really don't know too much about it. But for those that have been around awhile, this is what we know and remember most. For those who were not around, this is the shocking story that put the Village of Portchester, NY on the map for a very long time.

 

 Apparently the local city officials and leaders of that local fire service were not around or they have completely forgotten about this. This story woke up a lot of places to just how dangerous and quickly a fire could spread. I'm sure if you lost a friend or family member that night, you wouldn't forget it either. Or if you were one of the lucky ones who was there and recovered after your hospital stay. Yes, today better building codes and fire protection systems have played a huge part in the reduction of this kind of event. But as we so often see, "there are no promises made in this fire service business". I hope this link works. If not it should direct you to the web site for a search.

 

www3.gendisasters.com/new-york/1099/port-chester,-ny-dance-hall-fire,jun-1974

Edited May 9, 2016 by nfd2004

[somebuffyguy 190]

Couldn't get that link to work, here's the wiki page for it. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulliver%27s_nightclub_fire?wprov=sfla1

[nfd2004 750]

1 hour ago, somebuffyguy said:

Couldn't get that link to work, here's the wiki page for it. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulliver%27s_nightclub_fire?wprov=sfla1

 

  Thank you "buffguy". That will give the readers a good idea of just what happened. So the "Wise Wisdom" of those towns leaders today is to eliminate those 8 career firefighters.

 

  I'm no legal expert but just "IF" something were to go sour in the future, I would guess those public officials could maybe be held liable for their action taken. Reminds me of an old saying I remember. But true today as it was then.

 "Penny wise and a pound foolish".

 

Edited May 9, 2016 by nfd2004

[SECTMB 612]

45 minutes ago, nfd2004 said:

 

  Thank you "buffguy". That will give the readers a good idea of just what happened. So the "Wise Wisdom" of those towns leaders today is to eliminate those 8 career firefighters.

 

  I'm no legal expert but just "IF" something were to go sour in the future, I would guess those public officials could maybe be held liable for their action taken. Reminds me of an old saying I remember. But true today as it was then.

 "Penny wise and a pound foolish".

 

 

I am not a legal expert either, didn't play on TV or stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, however, I believe public officials are personally insulated from liability for their public decisions.

 

Regarding Gullivers, while I was active at the time, my department was not involved.  A close friend from Glenville was on scene and still remembers it as if it was yesterday as much as he would prefer to forget it.  Like a combat veteran, there are some memories best left behind.  What happened then one hopes will never happen again, but while fire codes and construction methods can minimize some dangers, as we have seen in years since, catastrophes always find a way to occur.   

[dwcfireman 656]

21 hours ago, Dinosaur said:

 

None of the airport is in the Village of Port Chester.  Part of it may be in Rye Brook but the majority is in Harrison and North Castle.

 

The whole southeast quadrant of the airport is in Rye Brook.  However, since RBFD suspends operations from 1900-0700 and PCFD is/was covering it, and because PC and RB run dual response, PCFD is in the airport's emergency response plan as a primary fire agency.  However, from 0700-1900 RBFD responds with Engine 14, and from 1900-0700 E59 would respond [as Rye Brook].  As far as this whole debacle in Port Chester goes, it has not affected our emergency response plan (ERP).  Between all of the  agencies involved within the ERP we are well covered in the event of an aircraft accident.

 

On the structural end, PCFD and RBFD respond dual response to all of the buildings/hangars/structures south of the fuel farm on Airport Road, Including Landmark Aviation, Signature Flight Support, and the Main Terminal.  The only affect of this type of response is the lack of E58.  Otherwise, we still get Rye Brook's ladder, and an engine, rescue, and ladder from Port Chester.

[rob zombie 33]

Has there been any resignations from the PCFD volunteer force over this ?

[dwcfireman 656]

3 hours ago, rob zombie said:

Has there been any resignations from the PCFD volunteer force over this ?

 

I sure as hell hope not.  If the volunteers start resigning over this issue, then there will be NO fire protection in Port Chester.

[x152 179]

5 hours ago, dwcfireman said:

 

I sure as hell hope not.  If the volunteers start resigning over this issue, then there will be NO fire protection in Port Chester.

 

Absent from most of this banter has been the giant elephant that is the Port Chester volunteers.

 

Now I am not suggesting that the rank and file were part of the negotiations prior to the dismissal of the entire career force, but this thread looks to be painted with financial blame with little said about the animus toward the Union.

 

So where is the widespread support from the PCFD volunteers? Yes, there are a handful out there support the laid off members, but with claims of upwards of 300 volunteers to support the village...one would think that more than a handful would show visible support?

 

Why have more volunteers not taken a stand with their "brother" career firefighters?

 

Have we not heard time and time again "that we are all brothers?", "the fire doesn't care if you are paid or volunteer", "I am a professional too" and other countless canned lines of absolute BS for years on this board and others out there.

 

Where is the cry of the volunteers? Where is the Chief pounding the desk?

 

In places like Lawrence (MA) and Providence (RI) were departments were dissimated due to the agenda of a Mayor, Fire Chiefs have resigned in protest (no worries, some boob is always found to sit-in), but the leader took a stand in protest.

 

I'll throw the gauntlet to the PCFD Chief and other "leaders" at his side....you sure have been quiet about this issue. Your silence is deafening. When will you stand?

 

There must be a bunch of hearing impaired individuals that live in "la-la-land" on this board if they still want to pretend that this was solely a financial crisis. This appears to be nothing more than good old fashioned retribution against a small labor union.

 

You want to know why?....Wait for the court documents and depositions...nothing like a nice controlled and sterile legal environment to find truth and oppress political smoke.

 

Who will stand? The Chief? His subordinates? The Volunteers?

 

BMA 

 

 

 

 

 

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

How do the Chiefs stand , they did it was all there idea . Now Rye Brook has started there legal action  and like you said it will now all come out . This may be just as good as The Stamford  topic ! 

[frost025 94]

The chiefs did pound the desk, to get rid of them. Like I have said before, had nothing to do with money. The people that have to get up is the citizens and the business owners.They are all paying their taxes which provide emergency services, and they took part of this away. Total bull.... Have a public forum and let the public decide. Not a few people behind closed doors

[frost025 94]

The chiefs did pound the desk, to get rid of them. Like I have said before, had nothing to do with money. The people that have to get up is the citizens and the business owners.They are all paying their taxes which provide emergency services, and they took part of this away. Total bull.... Have a public forum and let the public decide. Not a few people behind closed doors

[kinkchaser 352]

It was obvious from the start that no Village Board would have done this without assurances from the Volunteers, that they could pick up the duties of the Paid Firefighters and fulfill the Rye Brook contract. How many of the Vollies are AFL-CIO or Teamster members . How could they be party to putting fellow Union members and their families"out in the street". Remember the Port Chester local is part of the AFL-CIO

[gamewell45 258]

2 hours ago, kinkchaser said:

It was obvious from the start that no Village Board would have done this without assurances from the Volunteers, that they could pick up the duties of the Paid Firefighters and fulfill the Rye Brook contract. How many of the Vollies are AFL-CIO or Teamster members . How could they be party to putting fellow Union members and their families"out in the street". Remember the Port Chester local is part of the AFL-CIO

First off,  I've been involved as a labor activist for over 37 years and spent time on picket lines with both private and public sector unions that I'm not affiliated with and engaged in numerous actions including organizing to help my union and others bring rights to the workplace.

 

That being said, I can tell you that in this case, it appears both sides are a part of the same hypocrisy; how many firefighters who are union/volunteers do you see shopping at Walmart (Who is on the AFL-CIO's hit list for anti-union activities) or union "brothers" buying foreign made automobiles or doing side jobs on their days off doing carpentry or plumbing, taking jobs away from union tradesman?? 

 

It seems at times that some of us  wrap ourselves in the flag of unionism only when it affects us, ie. contract talks, layoffs, etc.  But if some other union has an issue, in some cases, it falls on deaf ears since it doesn't impact on us directly.  What your seeing in Port Chester is precisely what i'm talking about.  Perhaps if all members practiced what they preached when it's contract time 24/7, you'd you'd see more of a partnership of working together particularly in situations like what is going with the Brothers in Port Chester

 

When I was on strike in 1987 I got to watch firefighters cross our picket lines with the excuse being "we have an obligation to protect civilians and save lives"  Well, it wouldn't surprise me if the vollies in Port Chester are of the same mentality. While the vollies may not refuse to get the trucks on the road, they can participate in informational picketing, getting signatures for petitions to restore the laid off brothers jobs, helping to campaign for elected officials who are pro-union, etc.  We should all be working towards a working partnership as opposed to one of division.  Food for though my Brothers.

[kinkchaser 352]

Look this issue will not solve the labor problems in America, how about we concentrate on the Port Chester eight and see if their jobs and families can't be saved. Perhaps a luminary from the AFL_CIO or someone like Eddie Doyle from the Teamsters can approach the Volunteerrs and reason with them, Because with out the Vollies full cooperation this plan can not work nor would they like to get jammed up with their Locals or parent Unions

[gamewell45 258]

17 minutes ago, kinkchaser said:

Look this issue will not solve the labor problems in America, how about we concentrate on the Port Chester eight and see if their jobs and families can't be saved. Perhaps a luminary from the AFL_CIO or someone like Eddie Doyle from the Teamsters can approach the Volunteerrs and reason with them, Because with out the Vollies full cooperation this plan can not work nor would they like to get jammed up with their Locals or parent Unions

Kinkchaser; you are correct; this will not solve all the labor problems in America and its not supposed to, but you have to start somewhere; of course we can keep putting off the issue and nothing will get done and it'll be business as usual. 

 

If you read the last paragraph in my posting I listed things that may help the Brothers in getting some action done which may restore their jobs.  You need reach out to the vollies and form a working partnership,  but keep in mind the thrust of my post.  If we are all going to be unionists, they we have to work together as a team and not play the role but work the role.

[nfd2004 750]

7 hours ago, kinkchaser said:

It was obvious from the start that no Village Board would have done this without assurances from the Volunteers, that they could pick up the duties of the Paid Firefighters and fulfill the Rye Brook contract. How many of the Vollies are AFL-CIO or Teamster members . How could they be party to putting fellow Union members and their families"out in the street". Remember the Port Chester local is part of the AFL-CIO

 

 I dealt with this problem for my entire career as a firefighter. The active members of this department are dealing with this problem even more now.

 

 I was a volunteer firefighter in another town in a combination dept. We all got along great. Then I move to take the job I worked for so hard to get and I find out that I entered a "War Zone". Guys hated me and I didn't even know them. No doubt many of them resented the fact that I came from a distance to get that job. It was actually the sixth test I took and I finely got hired.  I knew that a lot of those guys had families, train on their off time, go to calls in the middle of the night, then get up the next morning to go to their jobs, "JUST AS I DID". But now these guys hate me for the Job I do. I couldn't understand that at all.

 

 It took a long time for this to actually sink in. In the beginning I figured it was only a few. But soon I learned it was actually the majority taking part in actions against myself and brother firefighters. I wish it wasn't like that because many times when we needed them, they were there to help us.

 

  Also what I didn't understand is how could I have so many volunteer firefighter friends outside my own home town. They respected me and I certainly respected them for the job they did. Not only are we friends, but we really are Brothers with a common interest.

 

 Without a doubt, every one of those volunteer firefighters and officers should fight to get those laid off firefighters back to work. As Brother/Sister firefighters, "STAND UP FOR SOMETHING OR FALL FOR ANYTHING". We should be Unite'n not Fight'n to band together. Together we could represent a huge force in our purpose of helping others and saving lives. Together we could become a very powerful group with the ability of facts to back up what we say. But it's up to you, the vol firefighters to do it.

 

  Portchester Volunteer firefighters, tell those leaders and fire chiefs that you intend to get your Brother firefighters back to work now. Or Port Chester may need to find itself some other guys willing to respond to those calls. The ball is in your corner now. You have every right to hold those leaders responsible for what they did. And you have every right to demand they come back.

 

  You do that and I can pretty much assure you that no Port Chester Career firefighter will ever forget that. It would be a Win/Win for everybody.

 

[gamewell45 258]

15 minutes ago, nfd2004 said:

 

 I dealt with this problem for my entire career as a firefighter. The active members of this department are dealing with this problem even more now.

 

 I was a volunteer firefighter in another town in a combination dept. We all got along great. Then I move to take the job I worked for so hard to get and I find out that I entered a "War Zone". Guys hated me and I didn't even know them. No doubt many of them resented the fact that I came from a distance to get that job. It was actually the sixth test I took and I finely got hired.  I knew that a lot of those guys had families, train on their off time, go to calls in the middle of the night, then get up the next morning to go to their jobs, "JUST AS I DID". But now these guys hate me for the Job I do. I couldn't understand that at all.

 

 It took a long time for this to actually sink in. In the beginning I figured it was only a few. But soon I learned it was actually the majority taking part in actions against myself and brother firefighters. I wish it wasn't like that because many times when we needed them, they were there to help us.

 

  Also what I didn't understand is how could I have so many volunteer firefighter friends outside my own home town. They respected me and I certainly respected them for the job they did. Not only are we friends, but we really are Brothers with a common interest.

 

 Without a doubt, every one of those volunteer firefighters and officers should fight to get those laid off firefighters back to work. As Brother/Sister firefighters, "STAND UP FOR SOMETHING OR FALL FOR ANYTHING". We should be Unite'n not Fight'n to band together. Together we could represent a huge force in our purpose of helping others and saving lives. Together we could become a very powerful group with the ability of facts to back up what we say. But it's up to you, the vol firefighters to do it.

 

  Portchester Volunteer firefighters, tell those leaders and fire chiefs that you intend to get your Brother firefighters back to work now. Or Port Chester may need to find itself some other guys willing to respond to those calls. The ball is in your corner now. You have every right to hold those leaders responsible for what they did. And you have every right to demand they come back.

 

  You do that and I can pretty much assure you that no Port Chester Career firefighter will ever forget that. It would be a Win/Win for everybody.

 

I would suggest that a representative from career staff meet with the Captains from each volunteer company and lay their cards on the table and see what the volunteers will do to help their Brothers.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

The 3  stooge's in charge have asked the captains for a list of volunteers that will work over night   to cover the Rye Brook station . 5 of the 7 company's so far have turned them down with no answer from the other 2 . 

[Dinosaur 844]

It does happen on the police side too...

 

http://www.app.com/story/news/local/communitychange/2016/05/11/lake-como-police-shuts-its-doors-tonight/84225366/

[nfd2004 750]

1 hour ago, PCFD ENG58 said:

The 3  stooge's in charge have asked the captains for a list of volunteers that will work over night   to cover the Rye Brook station . 5 of the 7 company's so far have turned them down with no answer from the other 2 . 

 

If I read the above correctly, Five of the seven volunteer fire companies are willing to support those laid off career firefighters. If that is correct, "Hat's off to those Brother Firefighters who are willing to step up to the plate and do what is right". This could be a huge plus in their favor. Try to put yourself in those career firefighters shoes. They loose their jobs from what I am starting to realize over some political or power hungry individuals, who apparently have no concern for these firefighters or for the citizens who depend on them.

 

If I were one of those laid off firefighters, I would make sure I never forget who supported me and who didn't.

 

Of the Five departments whose members are supporting those laid off firefighters, is it possible for someone to post which departments they are. They deserve a "pat on the back and recognition" for what they are doing. Let the World know what True Brotherhood in the Fire Service is all about.  

[gamewell45 258]

1 hour ago, Dinosaur said:

It does happen on the police side too...

 

http://www.app.com/story/news/local/communitychange/2016/05/11/lake-como-police-shuts-its-doors-tonight/84225366/

I think it's been around 15 years now since Pawling, NY disbanded its police force.  It happened at one of the village board meetings when a motion was made to disband the entire force and turn police matters over the county Sheriff's Office.  There were a lot of shocked people in the village, including members of the police department.

[Dinosaur 844]

1 hour ago, gamewell45 said:

I think it's been around 15 years now since Pawling, NY disbanded its police force.  It happened at one of the village board meetings when a motion was made to disband the entire force and turn police matters over the county Sheriff's Office.  There were a lot of shocked people in the village, including members of the police department.

Locally we've lost a few.  Brewster (though it's been reincarnated), Putnam Valley, Cortlandt, Town of Ossining, Village of Haverstraw, to name a few. 

NJ has been under the gun a lot recently and have done away with some big jobs like Camden. 

No public service agencies are safe.  Everyone is a potential political target.

[Chkpoint 131]

Today PC gets toned out for a automatic alarm in a commercial establishment. I heard only 1 engine sign on it was 62.  Maybe I am wrong but I only heard one. thought PC had 300 volunteers?  1 engine with maybe 2 or 3 guys. If you have 300 volleys that truck/ engine should be out the door on the drop of a dime.   Oh all 300 were working or at their homes up north.   Hmmmm