First Responders: Why do you tolerate unfit police and firefighters?

[Flashpoint 94]

Quote

 

Out of the gate, I asked my students directly why they tolerated unfit, often obese, police and firemen at their departments.

Many excuses came back including poor examples at the command level (i.e. unfit, “legacy” police and fire chiefs), union resistance, not wanting to create a “hostile” work environment for members, and “career suicide.”

 

 

http://strongswiftdurable.com/all-articles/first-responders-tolerate-unfit-police-firemen/

[SECTMB 612]

Where to start.  Volunteers get a pass because they're volunteers and the more the merrier. Our annual physical is pretty thorough and you can get 'downgraded' from interior firefighter to exterior if you miss the marks on some of the exams. It has come a long way from when I joined in 1970 and it was strictly turn your head and cough.

 

On the paid side, everyone comes out of the academy fit and for many its all down hill from there.  How long it takes to get to the bottom of the hill depends on each individual and their personal discipline.  Even if a department has weight requirements, try to get someone fired.  The weight becomes a disability or the result of a medical condition, maybe its the result of a psychological issue. Throw in some age, gender, religion or ethnicity and try to dismiss that person.  Good Luck.

 

If you consider yourself a first responder, you need to understand and accept that people are counting on you to perform certain specific functions.  If you physically can't fulfill those functions, you put them and others at risk when you pretend to be someone you are not.

 

[dwcfireman 656]

Many excuses came back including poor examples at the command level (i.e. unfit, “legacy” police and fire chiefs), union resistance, not wanting to create a “hostile” work environment for members, and “career suicide.”

 

This statement at the beginning of the article makes me cringe.  First of all, there should be no excuses.  When I was in ROTC, we had a sign above the door to the cadet offices that said "No Excuses!

 

At the command level, there are no excuses.  These are the people that are supposed to be setting the example for the rest of us.  These are also the people that need to tell their staff that they need to be in shape (and preferably the chiefs should also be in shape!).  Set the example, and expect and enforce the troops to follow suit.  If the chief is a fat slob, what motivates me to stay in shape other than my own personal safety concerns?  I, for one, am never concerned about just my safety.  If I go into a fire with three other firefighters, all four of us are coming out.  If one of them is out of shape, I don't want the group to end up like the example from the article (2 LODD, 2 severely injured).  As an officer myself, I'd rather point out that someone should buy a bike or hit the gym a little more than explain to OSHA why half the crew didn't make it.

 

This ties in with creating a "hostile" work environment, as well.  Why are people so concerned with offending others when there's a clear and cut safety issue?  Of course someone is going to get upset when you tell them that they are out of shape, but they need to be in shape for a job that is as vigorous as a firefighter's or police officer's.  If we're not on our A game, someone is going to get hurt (and it's usually the person that brought their B game or lower).  If you are the one that gets told to hit the gym a little more often, then suck it up and get yourself into better shape.

 

And for the love of all that is good, why would a union resist against a physical fitness protocol?  Unions fight to keep the troops safe in their jobs.  Why wouldn't they just rally behind their brothers and sisters to get them or keep them in shape so EVERYONE can accomplish their jobs safely?  Union resistance sounds like a joke to me when it comes to this matter!

 

The last one I don't get.  "Career suicide."  I understand that there are some people out there that just let it all go and stop caring (i.e. just riding it out until retirement, or the volunteer that just let go and decides "I'll just drive."), but this is still a huge safety issue.  Without starting a volunteer versus career debate, because this can happen on either end of the spectrum, let's look at the latter example:  A volunteer firefighter gets older and decides to ride out the rest of his career as a driver because he cannot meet the medical qualification to be interior because of weight gain and the associated medical issues.  His department is struck out for a working fire, he drives the first due, and has a heart attack behind the wheel because the adrenaline and stress overcomes his body.  The rig crashes, sending the other four firefighters to the hospital, and the fire has to wait and grow because the first due water didn't make it.  What I'm getting at here is that just because we get older doesn't mean that we can't be fit.  Granted, fit for a 20 year old is different than fit for a 50 year old, but there are people 60 years of age and older still fighting fires!  I can't account for the law enforcement world, but there are a lot of firefighters that keep trucking along and stay in shape for their entire career!  These are the guys we need to be like!

 

Now that my rant on excuses is over.....Do your fire departments (BOTH career and volunteer) have physical fitness standards?  Should departments have them and enforce them?  Should there be some sort of physical fitness program to keep the troops in shape?

[AFS1970 504]

This is so much a part of us that we accept it without thinking of it. This article brings it to mind, so we are somewhat defensive but generally in agreement. But look at the first excuse about poor examples in the command structure. No one in this thread will say anything other than the Chief needs to be fit as a fiddle. But in a previous thread about a chief going through RIT training, many were saying he didn't need to do that, his job was a desk job. Well if all he does is drive a desk, why can't he be 400 pounds? We have accepted this for so long that it is the norm.

 

As for the union excuse and the career suicide excuses, they are tied together in that nebulous word "brotherhood". If you criticize other members too much you are thought of as not being a brother, even if you are looking out for their health. I once heard an HR staff member say that all unions did was to protect the incompetent, he said this to me while I was serving on a union negotiation team. Now I obviously did not agree with him, but I have seen where that perception comes from just because the union want's to make sure the process is fair. So try firing someone based only on being overweight and out of shape, the union is no so much defending being fat as making sure that a department that watched the employee get fat over a number of years is not unjustly applying a new rule or requiring a sudden weight loss in a matter of days.

 

If a department decided to implement a new physical fitness standard, it would be met with resistance by anyone who could not meet it. In the volunteer sector there would be many calls for grandfathering of existing members. On the career side this would likely be subject to negotiations, and the union would want to get something in return for agreeing to this. Add this to most peoples only vague knowledge of the ADA and what can and can not be considered a disability and you kind of have a perfect store that will discourage members from speaking up.

 

 

[ForkandHoseCo 20]

This topic is one which I am extremely passionate about.  In my own personal experiences, it is tough to implement any changes in the fire service which go "against the grain", such as focusing on our own health/fitness.  Why you may ask? A lot if it is because the majority of the time, we make it back to the station.  And thank God for that.  But at the same time, it is our downfall.  Many simply do not understand the possibility for much worse outcomes due to our own health/fitness levels, which we have almost complete control over.  

 

When I started working out at the station, I was alone.  It is a combination department, so neither my own career guys or any volunteers had any interest in joining in on a workout.  I heard and still hear it all the time "Im getting tired just watching" .  But I realized I hadn't asked them if they wanted to, so one day I did.  And since then the guys on my own crew have pretty much worked out with me every tour, as well as one of the volunteers.  But that's not enough!!!  I don't always work on the same crew with the same one volunteer showing up.  I have brought up the idea of a yearly FUNCTIONAL fitness "test", and not so much a pass/fail test, but one that we can gauge ourselves on.  Can you gear up, climb x amount of flights, crawl with weight on your back, drag someone x amount of feet under stressful conditions in the physical state you are in?  It was met with resistance from all ends.  Why? Because just like in training, we are afraid to admit what we don't know, or in this case what we cannot perform.  The fire service is UNFIT, and this is unacceptable.  And you know what.....THE PUBLIC HAS NO IDEA!  To them everything is fine and dandy, but if only they knew what lies beneath the turnout gear....how maybe that one time they need us to make it up 3 flights, force the door and search for their missing child but we can't....we can't because we are too out of shape.  

 

I look at some of the members in my department, career and volunteer, and think to myself sometimes...if they go down, can I get them out?  And you know what,  more times than not, that answer is no.  And that scares the hell out of me.  How can we look at each other this way and not do something about it?

 

I started a firehouse cooking blog, with the goal of sharing any and all recipes.  This quickly changed to a focus on healthier eating in the firehouse when I started my own personal change in lifestyle.  As with nutrition, fitness is also a huge part of the equation.  I feel like we all need to start somewhere...

 

Stay safe, eat well 

[nfd2004 750]

Way back around 1984/85 I made a trip out to the West Coast. My wife and I took a two week vacation. Part of that vacation for me was to see the difference in the fire service here in the northeast and the City and County of the Los Angelus Fire Depts. I had spent several days with both departments as a buff and a firefighter from the northeast part of the U.S. Of course we compared notes. They could not relate to what it was like battling a good job in sub zero temperatures. But I also noticed that they didn't have any fat firefighters like myself and a few other guys around here.

 

 That led me to ask them how is that possible. They could not believe that we had no program designed to keep firefighters fit. One guy who had been on the job at that time about 22 years, had told me that is all he knew. He said since he had gotten on the job, just about every evening, the members made up a HUGE salad and was "take all you want". Every body seemed happy with that. I told them how I had won several eating contest in my firehouse for eating the most. I guess they could see that looking at my body.  That became one of my main interest in my trip.

 

  They were doing the Task Force and Strike Team kind of thing before some places here thought about it. But the northeast still had the much higher fire potential with it's old, very closely packed older buildings.

 

  Each L.A. member was weighed once a month by the battalion chief within the district. Records were kept. When it came to a firefighter being overweight, that member was put into what was called "The Fat Man Club". He/she was required to loose TWO pounds a month until they met the proper weight. I was told that after three months and those two pounds were not lost, action would be taken against that member in the form of a suspension. I was told that members in the past had actually been suspend for that offense, and the union agreed.

 

  Of course there was also on duty classes given on the importance of proper weight as a firefighter. In addition every morning after checking the rigs, 2 hours was set aside for exercise and clean up.  My first visit to a firehouse was to Task Force 3 in downtown L.A. City about 10:30 am.  A member answered the door wearing gym shorts and a tee shirt. I told him I was a firefighter from Connecticut and could I get somebody to pull out the rigs for me to take a few pictures. That member told me to come back in about two hours, which I did. I asked them about the exercise and they said "It's mandatory". Then they told me how each day, the guys took turns leading the exercise class in the firehouse or fire station as they put it. They also said if there was a park nearby, the guys go there to run. "I couldn't believe it". They even sent me their entire department manual on eating right and physical fitness.

 

  As for my wife while I was visiting fire stations, she spent her time at Venice Beach. After seeing some of those slim, muscle bound, tanned up guys walking around, I don't think any woman would have a problem being there.

 

 

[CFD048 32]

One of the doctors doing fire dept physicals here in the hudson valley has adopted a rule if your b.m.i is over 40 at your yearly physical he will give you 3 months to bring it down. If this is not down after 3 months you lose your interior fire fighter status. you can still be a member, just not an interior fire fighter.

 

[gamewell45 258]

On 4/29/2016 at 9:32 AM, AFS1970 said:

This is so much a part of us that we accept it without thinking of it. This article brings it to mind, so we are somewhat defensive but generally in agreement. But look at the first excuse about poor examples in the command structure. No one in this thread will say anything other than the Chief needs to be fit as a fiddle. But in a previous thread about a chief going through RIT training, many were saying he didn't need to do that, his job was a desk job. Well if all he does is drive a desk, why can't he be 400 pounds? We have accepted this for so long that it is the norm.

 

As for the union excuse and the career suicide excuses, they are tied together in that nebulous word "brotherhood". If you criticize other members too much you are thought of as not being a brother, even if you are looking out for their health. I once heard an HR staff member say that all unions did was to protect the incompetent, he said this to me while I was serving on a union negotiation team. Now I obviously did not agree with him, but I have seen where that perception comes from just because the union want's to make sure the process is fair. So try firing someone based only on being overweight and out of shape, the union is no so much defending being fat as making sure that a department that watched the employee get fat over a number of years is not unjustly applying a new rule or requiring a sudden weight loss in a matter of days.

 

If a department decided to implement a new physical fitness standard, it would be met with resistance by anyone who could not meet it. In the volunteer sector there would be many calls for grandfathering of existing members. On the career side this would likely be subject to negotiations, and the union would want to get something in return for agreeing to this. Add this to most peoples only vague knowledge of the ADA and what can and can not be considered a disability and you kind of have a perfect store that will discourage members from speaking up.

 

 

My son is a career FF down in SC, it's non-union (State law says municipalities are not required to recognize unions) and every year he has to undergo a rigorous physical exam.  If you fail it you have 60 days to meet the standards and if not, then you are out of a job.  No and's, if's or buts, your gone -- no union to go to bat for you.  Every morning everyone on shift exercises for 45 minutes (they stagger it so not everyone is exercising at the same time) to help them remain in shape.