Town Council Votes To Ditch Volunteers, Contract With Adjacent City

[Viper 139]

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INGRAM PA (KDKA)- The Ingram Borough Council voted to enter into a fire protection agreement with the City of Pittsburgh, meaning the local volunteer fire company will be shut down.

 

The council members approved the intergovernmental agreement 6-1 at last night’s meeting. The meeting was very tense, as concerned citizens, firefighters and the council argued about the decision.

 

Police were at the meeting to make sure nothing got out of hand. After the decision was handed down, concerned neighbors and firefighters yelled at the council. Some residents said they were considering leaving Ingram because of this decision.

 

In the end, the council said this decision came down to the money. They claimed it will be cheaper for taxpayers and the borough to pay the City of Pittsburgh for fire protection.

 

“With the city, it’s a fixed cost over the next five years,” said Council President Sam Nucci. “No unforeseen things, no additional vehicles, no additional liabilities. You add on other things they (Ingram Volunteer Fire Company) need, it would total $1.5 million.”

 

The agreement for fire protection goes into effect immediately, meaning the Ingram Volunteer Fire Company is out of commission starting today.

 

 

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2016/04/12/ingram-borough-council-votes-to-eliminate-volunteer-fire-company/

[jd783 64]

I feel for the volunteers but the company had 61 runs last year. Im sure a dept. like Pittsburgh can pick that up no problem. This will sting for a while but I'm sure its in the towns best interest , they could use the extra cash for law enforcement 

[x635 4,066]

Well said, John.

 

I noticed the article and the members interviewed pointed out the more social and fraternal parts of the organization then the actual safety aspects. And people said they would move out of the town because of this, but no one said they were willing to pay more taxes for it.

 

If you look at their website ( http://ingramvfd.org/ ), they have equipment that looks very old and substandard, and will need replacement soon. One is a midmount quint that is close to 40 years old, and to buy and maintain even a used one is an expensive thing. And three aging, single engine firehouses. And, as pointed out above, they only do 61 runs a year.  If you look at the map, they are enveloped by Pittsburgh.  It's what in some areas of this county would be a single engine first due. In this particular situation, not looking at it emotionally and objectively, it makes sense.

 

I understand this is a difficult, devastating thing. But, again, given the picture of the department portrayed by the members in the media, there's no reason why they can't continue on as a service organization to the town and still keep providing what they do. They could probably keep an Engine somehow.

 

This is going to be the future of the fire service. I was speaking with a friend from Oklahoma today, he reminded me of my time in Texas, where this is called "annexing".  Except in Austin, where everything is going from being a regional county service to a local service again lol.

Please also note, from a buffy perspective, that ALF Quint they have is pretty sweet.

[somebuffyguy 190]

While it certainly sucks for its members, does a .4 sq mile town really need it's own department? It's certainly unlikely that a town with 3,000 people could afford the apparatus or supply the manpower for a self sufficient department. At the end of the day the town needs to give the best fire protection possible and do what's right for th taxpayer. 

[bigrig77 95]

They were running with a 1979 Ford/Hamerly, 1999 HME Pumper, 1975 American La France ladder truck. I think the town made the right choice. Why waste $1.5 million on the vols when they only went on 61 calls. I don't think that money total took into consideration that a new rig needed to be purchased. They had a GoFundMe site set up to buy a ladder. The town weighted the options and it would be cheaper for Pittsburgh to come into the town when they had a call. It works out to about one call every week, easy coverage. The borough is 0.4 sq mi. with a population of 3,330 people. There are only 28 members on the rolls but i think we all know about the roll numbers and actual firefighters are two different numbers. They should be happy a fully staffed department with properly trained guys are now covering the town. 

[nfd2004 750]

Based on what I read here, "annexing", is probably the way to go as "x635" says in his above post. Even with 28 members on the rolls, as "bigrig77" says, how many could actually respond to a serious incident if needed. I'm sure Pittsburgh must respond anyway as a mutual aid company. Is it fair to say that the mutual aid goes the other way as well. My guess is it probably doesn't.

 

Seeing people cry at loosing their fire department which served this area for several years is very sad. But crying for some unfortunate person or family who may die in a fire if things stay the same could be much worse. It just doesn't make any sense to continue to operate in this type of system. It is wishful thinking but the reality is that it just cant be done. The people of that town really have much more to loose if they decided to continue as is.

 

 

[FireMedic049 597]

5 hours ago, nfd2004 said:

Based on what I read here, "annexing", is probably the way to go as "x635" says in his above post. Even with 28 members on the rolls, as "bigrig77" says, how many could actually respond to a serious incident if needed. I'm sure Pittsburgh must respond anyway as a mutual aid company. Is it fair to say that the mutual aid goes the other way as well. My guess is it probably doesn't.

 

 

Pittsburgh did not respond into their district prior to this and Ingram didn't respond into Pittsburgh. 

 

With the exception of border calls where there is confusion, misidentification of the location for the call, etc., Pittsburgh Fire generally doesn't respond into other communities (that they don't cover) and they don't respond into the city. 

[SECTMB 612]

I doubt the City of Pittsburgh, with 34 Engines and 11 Trucks, etc. would need assistance from their neighboring volunteer departments.

 

According the their station map, stations 29, 30 and 31 are closest to Ingram which puts 3 Engines and a Truck available to Ingram.  I know I would feel safer knowing those resources and firefighters were available 24/7/365.

[nfd2004 750]

2 hours ago, FireMedic049 said:

Pittsburgh did not respond into their district prior to this and Ingram didn't respond into Pittsburgh. 

 

With the exception of border calls where there is confusion, misidentification of the location for the call, etc., Pittsburgh Fire generally doesn't respond into other communities (that they don't cover) and they don't respond into the city. 

 

 

  Okay, I wasn't aware of that. Next question I have related to this then "If Ingram DID have a serious incident, who did they rely on for mutual aid" ?

[AFS1970 504]

If I remember correctly, there are a few small towns that are completely surrounded by Pittsburgh. This has been the result of annexing the surrounding towns over the years.

[FireMedic049 597]

4 hours ago, nfd2004 said:

 

 

  Okay, I wasn't aware of that. Next question I have related to this then "If Ingram DID have a serious incident, who did they rely on for mutual aid" ?

They utilized the other VFDs in that area and as far as I know, their 1st alarm included mutual aid units.  I've seen Crafton mentioned several times.

 

I'm not up on all of their details since they are on the opposite side of the county and in a different dispatch/radio zone.

[FireMedic049 597]

1 hour ago, AFS1970 said:

If I remember correctly, there are a few small towns that are completely surrounded by Pittsburgh. This has been the result of annexing the surrounding towns over the years.

Mt. Oliver is the only one small town that is completely surrounded by Pittsburgh.  Pittsburgh provides their EMS, but they have their own VFD and I think police too.

 

I'm not sure of the exact reasons, but Pittsburgh Fire is not on any of their responses and vice versa.  They utilize a few other VFDs on their 1st alarm.  I think it's more their choice than the city not being willing to do so.  I believe they didn't like the city's terms for providing them the aid.

 

Due to our geography and odd border configurations, several other smaller towns border the city similar to Ingram, but aren't completely surrounded like Mt. Oliver. 

 

To the best of my knowledge, Pittsburgh hasn't annexed any areas in at least 2 decades.