Hudson River Incident Logistical Mess (Plural)

[x635 4,066]

First, I want to preface this by saying the dispatcher at 60 Control who handled this incident did an EXCELLENT job coordinating everything given the situation. It was almost mind boggling to try and keep track of everything and he nailed it.

 

For those that didn't monitor, there was a cardiac arrest involving a crew member on a tugboat in the Hudson River. The tugboats location was static, but had to be determined further. It was one worst incidents I've ever heard logistically play out just given the fact that there was no coordination by any unit with anyone else. Everybody was freelancing, and everybody wanted to play. There was no concrete information about which boat had EMT's or Medics. It was, literally and this was stated on the radio several times, whoever got to the boat first got the patient. No one knew who was the true incident commander, and there was no true command.  Rockland couldn't communicate with Westchester and vice versa in a timely or efficient manner. Both Rockland and Westchester were basically both working the same incident completely separate from one another with no idea of who was doing what.

 

It also should have been kept in mind that it was pitch black out, and the current very strong, with heavy winds. You had rescue boats swarming from each directions with limited to no awareness of anyone else in the area. Responders putting other responders in danger.

The inefficiency, to say the least, could have made the difference in the outcome of a cardiac arrest. I get everyone wants to help, but sometimes you're doing more harm then good.

 

And, at the very least, Westchester and Rockland need to develop a better system of interagency incident command and training, especially since there seems to be a very large overlap of jurisdiction. There should be numerous drills and tabletop exercises on a regular basis, as well as a single channel for Hudson River incidents that is primary and a dedicated tactical channel that both counties can access.

 

60 Control needs to be able to have the authority to control units, such as to stand down units or give specific commands in a situation like this where no one else is capable of taking charge over such a widespread area.

 

Another thought. Westchester DES needs to appoint a Marine Battalion that is familiar and capable of coordinating incidents on the Hudson, and capable of taking command of multiple jurisdictions and equipped with Rockland radios. Or appoint WCPD SOD as primary command and coordination since they have better resources.

 

Quite frankly....one of the major issues was that no one could take personal blame  for the situations....it was the circumstances at play.

 

AGAIN...EXCELLENT JOB BY THE 60 CONTROL DISPATCHER, who made the best of what and who he had to work with! It was almost mind boggling to try and keep track of everything and he nailed it.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

This is a rerun of the same discussion over the years.  Nothing is going to change so long as we have these little empires and emperors running things.

 

[x635 4,066]

 

This is a rerun of the same discussion over the years.  Nothing is going to change so long as we have these little empires and emperors running things.

 

 

In this case, it really didn't have anything to do with it. It came down to a complete lack of coordination of resources and interagency communication failures.

[ctmed5408 3]

The solution to this problem that has long been an issue in certain areas of NYS is legislation.  There should be no guessing or discussion about who is in overall command & responsible for 

operations at an incident.  In CT, the

senior fire officer on scene is in charge, by law.  Nothing is left open to

interpretation.  It's clearly defined.

[SKE#2HAHN 18]

On July 14, 2012 Orange County held a Full-Scale Exercise to test their Hazard Specific Annex (2011 ed) for Transportation Accidents (Hudson River) contained in their CEMP.  This Full-Scale Exercise was based upon a very challenging boating accident on the Hudson River involving multiple patients requiring search, extrication, and land-based rescue. (SEE LINK) Based upon lessons learned from that exercise and several significant incidents involving multiple jurisdictions on the Hudson River, Orange County improved their Hazard Specific Annex in their CEMP to provide responders with guidance for Transportation Accidents on the Hudson River.  Agencies from Albany to Westchester with  jurisdiction on the Hudson River were invited to observe the exercise and subsequently the final copy of the plan was distributed to hopefully help stimulate improvement of emergency response on the Hudson River.

This comprehensive plan addresses many issues and operational challenges that frequently present with incidents on the Hudson River.  Orange County has designated (with USCG Approval) Marine Channel 81A for interoperability with all units operating on the Hudson River.  Motorola APX Dual Band VHF/UHF radios were purchased and issued to every agency with jurisdiction on the Hudson River and programmed with Marine Channels for Interoperability.

It would be beneficial if there was a Hudson River Emergency Response Consortium spearheaded by NY DHSES and the USCG...

Edited March 29, 2016 by SKE#2HAHN
Easier View of Link

[Jybehofd 85]

There's alot of problems with operation north of the washington bridge on the hudson river.  The biggest is the correct rescources.... its not there.  I've seen the police and fire boats on the river.  They can't handle a large to major incident in 5 foot seas.  yes the hudson can and has experienced seas that big and alittle bigger.  Someone needs to get a 50-60 foot steel or alumiun boat similar to what NYPD has. Without a jet drive, either direct drive shafts.  A large 500 to 1500 GPM pump that can also be lined up to send a suction hose over to a vessel with a plumped fire monitor and a portable one. In addition to a manifold set up to run hand lines.  Along with portable pumps, gas, or electric, 3cm and 10cm radars, FLIRR, 2 VHF radios with DSC, ECDIS, DGPS two units, 2 trunk radios (since ems and fire are on different bands), radios for rockland and nyc NYPD avaition and marine units.  Below deck a "med bay" one or two M tanks, BLS supplies minus the drugs. a PAD. Rescue equipment: scoop with vertical and horizontal lifting straps, a PECU (portible exothermix cuting unit), 2 peri-jet dewater, Foam and lots of it. 500 gallon min. with appriorate nozels and attachtments for monitors. standard fire fighting tools, haligan, axes, crowbars, sledge hammers, wedges, cribbing, along with multiple fire extinguishers, co2, dry chem, pkp, 

 

this is just some of the things that should be availible at a moments notice on the hudson river.  think and prepare for the worst...  a loaded barge with gasoline vs a fully loaded ferry in a good storm.   it can happen don't say it can't.    its just a matter of time before agencies along the river get caught with there pants down and its not going to be good. yes FDNY and NYPD will step in but FDNY will take a while to get the big boats up the river, NYPD aviation will be on scene very fast with divers. and the NYPD patrol boats will come too in time, probably faster then the bigger FDNY boats. But there newer boats are fast now, not like the firefighter.  

 

you might say why only receational boats and some tug boats go up and down the river... yes they do along with some commercial ships from time to time.  how will the recources availible now assist a crew of 15 on a ship with a large engine room fire ?  anchor the vessel in the channel? put her in a soft bank? call for tug boats that have barges alongside?  

 

The new tappen zee bridge is going to be higher, that means bigger ships can come up the river.  they will no longer be restricted by air draft, the river is about 30-35 feet deep in the channel in the shoal spots... a litte dregging and that can become 50 feet.   I don't think a massive surge of ships will come up the river but an occationaly a big ship can and more then likely will.  plan on it. 

 

thats my rant for now, mind you i am in the merchant marine, a paramedic, and a vol. fire fighter for some years. 

B Fleming

[PEMO3 523]

Just a point of information.  Peekskill OEM has a mobile command vehicle equipped with not only Westchester DES and PD but Rockland, Dutchess,  Putnam,  Orange and Marine channels along with a PC with ICS software. It is not trunking capable but that is another thread.  The unit is only a simple phone call away through the PPD desk.

[SOUSGT 357]

 

The solution to this problem that has long been an issue in certain areas of NYS is legislation.  There should be no guessing or discussion about who is in overall command & responsible for 

operations at an incident.  In CT, the

senior fire officer on scene is in charge, by law.  Nothing is left open to

interpretation.  It's clearly defined.

It does not appear to be as cut and dry as you think. I was listening to part of the call. It appeared that there were several other factors that mucked up the situation.

1) In this case it wasn't a fire but a medical emergency. Does the fire officer still retain command?

2) It could not be determined exactly were the call was (Town or County).

3) It seems like there was an over dispatch because it was not known were the call was. (I could be wrong on this).   

4) The weather played a role I recall hearing about boat being dispatched and one of the chiefs replied "You realize that boat s a hard bottomed Zodiac, We have 20 knot winds out here. "

     Also its difficult to hear a radio on the river with high winds and trying to keep a small craft stable and on course.

They did have a command post set up at Half moon bay and I did hear that one of the chiefs took command form the shore. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[10512 214]

The simple truth is, if someone, anyone, had taken command, it is likely everyone else would have followed. I did not hear this incident, but from what I am reading, it sounds like no one was in charge.

Some solutions, such as a Marine Battalion, while sounding good, only add another layer to bureaucracy to it. A complicated incident does not need additional layers.

Just my opinion, but a good rule of thumb for establishing command would be the boss of the first agency that gets the original call is in charge, and remains in charge unless and until a reason comes up that justifies a change.

If the location or jurisdiction, is in question, the command stays with the original responding agency until the jurisdiction is positively determined. It makes no sense to change unless there is a valid reason.

This would eliminate the some of the guesswork and would, at the minimum, have everyone answering to the same authority, even if it changed later on, at least the ballgame starts with everyone on the same page.

These are just my thoughts, I have seen similar things before, and they will likely occur again.

Edited March 29, 2016 by 10512

[antiquefirelt 994]

 

The solution to this problem that has long been an issue in certain areas of NYS is legislation.  There should be no guessing or discussion about who is in overall command & responsible for 

operations at an incident.  In CT, the

senior fire officer on scene is in charge, by law.  Nothing is left open to

interpretation.  It's clearly defined.

The senior fire officer of the department responsible for the given area or do they pull out badges and resumes? While I'm not familiar with the Hudson tug incident, I have been part of and witnessed clusters when no one was sure who's jurisdiction was responsible, thus those who disagreed with an order or plan just freelanced. It's hopefully a rarity on land, but where the ocean or large bodies of water are involved this can be an issue. I'd assume the State would have jurisdiction on a  major waterway? But alas, like here, there's a good chance local resources are well ahead of the limited Sate resources.

Edited March 29, 2016 by antiquefirelt
keyboard caused misspelled words

[Jybehofd 85]

the coast guard has put it on local municipalities. fact is a 20 foot zodiac and a 25 foot whaler along with a 30 foot rig will be working hard with 25 knot sustained wind with 50 kt gusts.  they will need to be rescued. instead of doing the rescue

 

Edited March 29, 2016 by Jybehofd

[res6cue 67]

Let's be perfectly clear about this: the so called "logistical mess" was confined to the Westchester side of things last night.

 

Rockland units (Sheriff's marine unit, Stony Point FD marine unit, EMS on land) were all coordinated very well through 44-Control on Rockland's trunked system, including all involved agencies in direct communication on the Interop 1 talkgroup when necessary.  The Sheriff's marine unit was in constant contact with Coast Guard Sector NY on Marine 16, and also had direct contact with the tugboat.  They were also the first unit to board the vessel to provide aid. Stony Point's fire chief and marine unit were in direct and constant contact with the Sheriff's marine unit.

 

Notwithstanding the fact that the location was initially mis-reported and it took some time for the correct location to be determined (it happens, especially at night on the river), there were no issues otherwise with the Rockland side of things.

 

Note that this incident was on the Rockland shore, and that 44-Control notified 60-Control more or less as a courtesy than anything else.  Somehow, that turned into 60-Control dispatching just about every fire dept marine unit in the county, along with the WCPD marine unit.

 

Perhaps the real issue here is that it appears that Westchester units are allowed to self-dispatch, with no one actually managing resources. That does not happen in Rockland.  If 44-Control doesn't dispatch you, then you do not respond, plain and simple.

 

I was monitoring Fire 10 on the Westchester trunked system, and it was painful. You have a fire chief assuming command on the opposite shore 5 miles away from the actual incident? Really?

 

Next time maybe Rockland doesn't bother to notify Westchester at all when the incident is on the Rockland shore. If garbage like last night is the norm for Westchester, and no one can control the response, then just stay home.

[Spartan052 43]

alright ill bite and start by asking you how many of those commenting on this incident where there last night? Those that were there can comment on how much of a mess it was NOT those that sat home and love to play armchair QB. OK   

Edited March 29, 2016 by Spartan052

[Spartan052 43]

 

Let's be perfectly clear about this: the so called "logistical mess" was confined to the Westchester side of things last night.

 

Rockland units (Sheriff's marine unit, Stony Point FD marine unit, EMS on land) were all coordinated very well through 44-Control on Rockland's trunked system, including all involved agencies in direct communication on the Interop 1 talkgroup when necessary.  The Sheriff's marine unit was in constant contact with Coast Guard Sector NY on Marine 16, and also had direct contact with the tugboat.  They were also the first unit to board the vessel to provide aid. Stony Point's fire chief and marine unit were in direct and constant contact with the Sheriff's marine unit.

 

Notwithstanding the fact that the location was initially mis-reported and it took some time for the correct location to be determined (it happens, especially at night on the river), there were no issues otherwise with the Rockland side of things.

 

Note that this incident was on the Rockland shore, and that 44-Control notified 60-Control more or less as a courtesy than anything else.  Somehow, that turned into 60-Control dispatching just about every fire dept marine unit in the county, along with the WCPD marine unit.

 

Perhaps the real issue here is that it appears that Westchester units are allowed to self-dispatch, with no one actually managing resources. That does not happen in Rockland.  If 44-Control doesn't dispatch you, then you do not respond, plain and simple.

 

I was monitoring Fire 10 on the Westchester trunked system, and it was painful. You have a fire chief assuming command on the opposite shore 5 miles away from the actual incident? Really?

 

Next time maybe Rockland doesn't bother to notify Westchester at all when the incident is on the Rockland shore. If garbage like last night is the norm for Westchester, and no one can control the response, then just stay home.

well unfortunately your wrong because none of rockland's info was being relayed to westchester units

[gpdexplorer 46]

 

Let's be perfectly clear about this: the so called "logistical mess" was confined to the Westchester side of things last night.

 

Rockland units (Sheriff's marine unit, Stony Point FD marine unit, EMS on land) were all coordinated very well through 44-Control on Rockland's trunked system, including all involved agencies in direct communication on the Interop 1 talkgroup when necessary.  The Sheriff's marine unit was in constant contact with Coast Guard Sector NY on Marine 16, and also had direct contact with the tugboat.  They were also the first unit to board the vessel to provide aid. Stony Point's fire chief and marine unit were in direct and constant contact with the Sheriff's marine unit.

 

Notwithstanding the fact that the location was initially mis-reported and it took some time for the correct location to be determined (it happens, especially at night on the river), there were no issues otherwise with the Rockland side of things.

 

Note that this incident was on the Rockland shore, and that 44-Control notified 60-Control more or less as a courtesy than anything else.  Somehow, that turned into 60-Control dispatching just about every fire dept marine unit in the county, along with the WCPD marine unit.

 

Perhaps the real issue here is that it appears that Westchester units are allowed to self-dispatch, with no one actually managing resources. That does not happen in Rockland.  If 44-Control doesn't dispatch you, then you do not respond, plain and simple.

 

I was monitoring Fire 10 on the Westchester trunked system, and it was painful. You have a fire chief assuming command on the opposite shore 5 miles away from the actual incident? Really?

 

Next time maybe Rockland doesn't bother to notify Westchester at all when the incident is on the Rockland shore. If garbage like last night is the norm for Westchester, and no one can control the response, then just stay home.

What Westchester agency self dispatched? 60 Control dispatched Verplanck FD and WCPD Marine, Verplanck FD requested 60 Control dispatch Croton FD and Tarrytown FD Marine Units. To my knowledge, no agency self dispatched. 

[x635 4,066]

 

alright ill bite and start by asking you how many of those commenting on this incident where there last night? Those that were there can comment on how much of a mess it was NOT those that sat home and love to play armchair QB. OK   

 

You didn't have to be there last night to hear what was going on if you were monitoring multiple Westchester and Rockland frequencies. IN FACT, if you were on scene, you probably couldn't hear everything that was going on.

 

 

well unfortunately your wrong because none of rockland's info was being relayed to westchester units

 

And that right there is part of the problem.

[Bugler83 7]

Let's be perfectly clear about this: the so called "logistical mess" was confined to the Westchester side of things last night.

 

So the incident was going on for approx 45 mins before other Westchester agencies were dispatched.  And Westchester was the mess? Verplank was the only Westchester agency on the initial dispatch and they were dispatch by 60 Control. I'm failing to see what was wrong there.

 

Rockland units (Sheriff's marine unit, Stony Point FD marine unit, EMS on land) were all coordinated very well through 44-Control on Rockland's trunked system, including all involved agencies in direct communication on the Interop 1 talkgroup when necessary.  The Sheriff's marine unit was in constant contact with Coast Guard Sector NY on Marine 16, and also had direct contact with the tugboat.  They were also the first unit to board the vessel to provide aid. Stony Point's fire chief and marine unit were in direct and constant contact with the Sheriff's marine unit.

 

Notwithstanding the fact that the location was initially mis-reported and it took some time for the correct location to be determined (it happens, especially at night on the river), there were no issues otherwise with the Rockland side of things.

 

Then why call in Westchester?

 

Note that this incident was on the Rockland shore, and that 44-Control notified 60-Control more or less as a courtesy than anything else.  Somehow, that turned into 60-Control dispatching just about every fire dept marine unit in the county, along with the WCPD marine unit.

 

44 Control requested Westchester to Dispatch Verplank. It wasn't until approx 45 mins later that everyone else was dispatched to help find the "missing tugboat". You forget that someone was in distress? 

 

Perhaps the real issue here is that it appears that Westchester units are allowed to self-dispatch, with no one actually managing resources. That does not happen in Rockland.  If 44-Control doesn't dispatch you, then you do not respond, plain and simple.

 

Not sure where you get your information but you should research more.

 

 

 

I was monitoring Fire 10 on the Westchester trunked system, and it was painful. You have a fire chief assuming command on the opposite shore 5 miles away from the actual incident? Really?

 

Yes there should be a IC on both sides of the river when multiple agencies are working the incident. Are you joking me?

 

Next time maybe Rockland doesn't bother to notify Westchester at all when the incident is on the Rockland shore. If garbage like last night is the norm for Westchester, and no one can control the response, then just stay home. 

 

Hey instead of trying to Monday morning QB this why don't you be part of a solution instead of the problem.  

 

 

 

Jybehofd and Bnechis like this  Like this

•  
• Quote

[res6cue 67]

I believe that you're the one who needs to research the facts.

 

Here is the exact timeline of events:

 

21:56 - 911 call to Rockland reporting CPR in progress aboard tugboat Pilgrim

21:57 - Stony Point FD and Sheriff's marine units dispatched

22:19 - Haverstraw Fire Inspector spots tugboat at Tilcon's Haverstraw location

22:30 - Sheriff's marine unit on scene, boarding tugboat

 

The Rockland County Sheriff's marine unit was on scene and boarded the vessel 34 minutes after the initial distress call to Rockland 911, which was 11 minutes after the location was positively identified by cell phone ping.

 

Now go ahead and explain where you came up with that ridiculous bit about how:

 

Quote

It wasn't until approx 45 mins later that everyone else was dispatched to help find the "missing tugboat".

 

45 minutes hadn't even elapsed between the initial 911 call and the Sheriff's marine unit boarding the vessel. Facts matter.

 

Except for the unavoidable and unfortunate delay in finding the vessel due to them reporting their location incorrectly, it was a pretty straightforward operation by Rockland units.

 

I stand by my initial point, which is that the bulk of the confusion was limited to Westchester units.

[Remember585 815]

First and foremost, the incident, and the outcome, sucks.  I do not believe anything anyone did or tried to do last night would have made a difference.

 

Going back a few years, maybe 2009-2010, a Response Plan was developed by the "Westchester Marine Emergency Response Association" along with Westchester County Department of Emergency Services.  That plan basically called for a three-tiered response to all Hudson River incidents, meaning the area of jurisdiction - as well as the next closest agency to the north and south - would be dispatched.

 

From a MOS standpoint with my FD, this is an "OK at best" approach.  During my time as Chief we modified this to include Rockland units, since many incidents happen to fall on or beyond that imaginary line that divides Westchester & Rockland.  At the time, according to this "plan" we attempted to utilize Marine 22 (I think) as a radio channel for all FD, PD, etc. vessels to communicate during river operations.  When we had a river incident that fell under our Command, we always tried to steer everyone on to this channel, since we should all have this capability.  I could be wrong but this sticks out in my memory, and it was designated to keep Marine 16 open for emergency traffic.

 

Last night's incident is just another reminder that when someone dials 911 from a cell phone, it's truly a crapshoot as to where they really are vs. where they think they are.  And this doesn't just apply to waterways - a lot of cellular 911 calls for land based incidents require some searching to find them.  Because of this, it highlights the benefit of starting out resources from different angles.

 

Since Rockland switched to their new radio system, communications on the river have suffered.  But there's no reason why the four counties (Westchester, Rockland, Putnam & Orange) can't develop a plan to always work off the VHF Marine radios.  Afterall, as boats, we should all have them and the signal is decent.  Command vehicles should also install this capability.

 

The frequency of incidents, and the complexity of them on the Hudson River is only going to increase the demand for our services.  There needs to be a standard of training for boat operators, crew members and people responding and playing command.  If EMS is getting on a boat, they need proper training too.  It's 2016 and the fact that the same stupid stuff continues to happen irritates me, because we should be well-trained, well-prepared and have pre-plans developed where we can all work together and provide a professional-level of service.  

 

The days of letting the first people to the dock get on the boat needs to end, and the Chiefs of all of these FDs with river response responsibilities need to work all of this out.

 

Additionally, I think it's time for the FDs that are going to be in the marine operations game to seriously look into grants to get the training we all need and the proper vessels to do what is needed.  We all can't stand around, holding our d**ks waiting on County PD or someone else to get there when someone's life is in the balance.

 

 

 

[SOUSGT 357]

This would have been a perfect use for the mobile communications vehicles if they could be on scene in a reasonable amount of time. 

 

However, I have a simpler idea: As Rockland and Westchester have repeaters (trunked systems), In theory what is heard at 44 control and on the site should be the same quality of broadcast. Why can't a radio of each others trunk system be installed at the two control centers and when you have an operation such as this bridged together? This would permit all units at a scene be connected together thus only 1 radio would have to be monitored and everyone would be on the same channel. Many departments were cross banding their radio systems before the trunk system was established.

 

 

[Flashpoint 94]

Does Yonkers Police or Fire still operate a marine unit?

 

[velcroMedic1987 330]

On ‎3‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 11:30 AM, x635 said:

 

In this case, it really didn't have anything to do with it. It came down to a complete lack of coordination of resources and interagency communication failures.

 

Why do you think it came down to a lack of coordination and interagency communications failures?  Because everybody does it on their own and has their own little fiefdom.

[x635 4,066]

1 hour ago, velcroMedic1987 said:

 

Why do you think it came down to a lack of coordination and interagency communications failures?  Because everybody does it on their own and has their own little fiefdom.

 

I think it came down to lack of coordination and interagency communications failures as the primary factor in this incident is because no one could communicate with one another. Sure, there's the issue of jurisdictions, but in this particular incident, there was no way to tell who was where doing what. In this incident, each agency was technically isolated from one another. The Hudson River is like the Wild West, and has a long way to go to be brought up to standards where incidents can be responded to in the most efficient manner possible.

 

Another thought, NYPD Aviation is able to fly in the type of weather experienced that evening, and has a lot of technology on their aircraft to find a vessel, and even deploy crew to it or evacuate a patient if needed. They could have been called and located the tug the quickest. I don't know if WCPD Aviation is in the air or is rated for that type of weather, but for coordinating resources, they have the best vantage points and probably the best equipped emergency boat on the river.  It should be the primary role of the PD to determine the location for those reasons. For all intensive purposes, WCPD and NYPD are the Coast Guard for the Hudson River.

[SECTMB 612]

What was the outcome for the victim?

[SOUSGT 357]

Please see my earlier comments on bridging radios. In it looks like in the current situation an emergency services boat on the Hudson would need:

1 Westchester trunk radio

1 Westchester UHF fire ground radio (or the ability to scan this frequency and the trunked)

1 Rockland County Trunked radio

1 NYPD radio

1 NYFD radio

1 Marine radio

And just for giggles and grins a WCPD radio.

Did I cover all the bases?

(Does the helicopter out of NJ have any of the above?)

Putnam Fire

Orange Fire

Putnam Sherriff's

Orange Sherriff's

As you can see this is a lot of hardware and a lot to pay attention to when involved in an emergency.

Edited March 31, 2016 by SOUSGT
Forgot Orange and Putnam.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

17 hours ago, SOUSGT said:

Please see my earlier comments on bridging radios. In it looks like in the current situation an emergency services boat on the Hudson would need:

1 Westchester trunk radio

1 Westchester UHF fire ground radio (or the ability to scan this frequency and the trunked)

1 Rockland County Trunked radio

1 NYPD radio

1 NYFD radio

1 Marine radio

And just for giggles and grins a WCPD radio.

Did I cover all the bases?

(Does the helicopter out of NJ have any of the above?)

Putnam Fire

Orange Fire

Putnam Sherriff's

Orange Sherriff's

As you can see this is a lot of hardware and a lot to pay attention to when involved in an emergency.

 

You don't need different radios for all of that. 

You need VHF-high band (which includes the marine band), UHF, and 700 and/or 800.   3, possibly 4 radios. 

 

 

[wedgeclose 59]

For years any emergencies on the river have been hit or miss.  I recall a fisherman lost off of Croton Point Park (he jumped in to retrieve a stuck lure) who was swept off the rocks and went missing.  There were so many agencies involved searching for him but no one could talk to each other.  The Coast Guard sent a chopper but no one on shore could talk to them.  There were numerous "fire department" boats racing around but no one could figure out what frequency they could talk on.  We need a plan...a frequency...and most importantly a helicopter with the capability of responding in bad weather and radios that are compatable with 60 and 44 control.

[Dinosaur 844]

On 4/1/2016 at 5:03 PM, wedgeclose said:

For years any emergencies on the river have been hit or miss.  I recall a fisherman lost off of Croton Point Park (he jumped in to retrieve a stuck lure) who was swept off the rocks and went missing.  There were so many agencies involved searching for him but no one could talk to each other.  The Coast Guard sent a chopper but no one on shore could talk to them.  There were numerous "fire department" boats racing around but no one could figure out what frequency they could talk on.  We need a plan...a frequency...and most importantly a helicopter with the capability of responding in bad weather and radios that are compatable with 60 and 44 control.

 

A helicopter with the capability of responding in bad weather?  Weather minimums for all helicopters exist for the safety of the crew, the victim, and everyone else on the ground.  The USCG flies in miserable weather but they aren't going to fly below their minimums.  Any look at HEMS will show you that sometimes pushing those weather minimums ends up with nasty results. 

We need good coordination.  Everybody thinks they can just do what ever they want on the river.  THAT is what has to stop!

[x635 4,066]

And yet another mess today. NO agency, IC, or dispatch center could figure out single interoperability frequency they should be on. Yonkers FD had the best information with visual on the subject, up to date information, on shore with wife, on Marine VHF 16 (from shore), and no one was working to communicate with them or could figure out how to. By the time the information was passed through dispatch centers (multiple), the information was 3-4 minute old. And no one relinquished or tried to consolidate command to Yonkers FD Battalion 1, or go to their existing command post, despite it being in their district.

 

Note, hundreds of kayakers of all experience on river today with the beautiful weather.

 

And good job by the 60 Control dispatcher (636) on trying to coral all this info and disseminate it as best as possible.

 

The Hudson River remains the "wild west" of emergency services.

 

 

 

[velcroMedic1987 330]

On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 3:55 PM, SECTMB said:

What was the outcome for the victim?

 

 

CPR for 45 minutes before anyone even got to the tugboat?  I'm guessing the outcome wasn't good.