Greenwich FD Staffing

[Flashpoint 94]

 

Quote

 

Attention residents of Greenwich, we need your help!

 

For the last 2 years the First Selectman and Fire Chief have attempted to add firefighters to improve the unsafe staffing levels of the Fire Department. Currently Old Greenwich, Cos Cob, and Byram only have two career firefighters assigned while Central, Glenville, and North St have 4 career firefighters. This staffing model leaves large portions of the community deficient in fire protection.

 

The First Selectman and Fire C...hief once again attempted to increase the staffing of the undermanned companies and once again it is about to be removed from the budget by the Board of Estimate and Taxation. The sole reason for the increase in staffing is to improve the safety of the firefighters and the residents in the Town of Greenwich.

 

There will be a public hearing on the budget tomorrow, March 17th at 7pm at Town Hall. Please come and support the First Selectman and the firefighters. If you cannot attend the public hearing you can contact your BET representatives and voice your support.

Thank You!!

 

 

[sueg 77]

I hope people show up in support of retaining the money for the staffing.  Even with volunteers supplementing personnel, I remember from the papers Greenwich was  very busy, and had an arson problem on top of it for the past two years.  Need the trained personnel 24/7 available, hate to see them undermanned and over worked. 

 

 

 

Removed a "very"

Edited March 18, 2016 by sueg
Correct point made -very busy for my Dept., not for paid larger ones

[SECTMB 612]

How do you conduct a primary search with a two person engine? When the homeowner comes running out of the smoke filled house screaming the children are inside, what do you say?  They'll be another truck along in a few minutes!!

 

Where does the money go?  

 

[Quickness 7]

Greenwich fire departments are volunteer supplemented with career members.

[SECTMB 612]

3 hours ago, Quickness said:

Greenwich fire departments are volunteer supplemented with career members.

Are you sure it's not the other way around.  Paid supplemented by volunteers?  Are those two paid firefighters in house waiting for volunteers that may or may not show up before they respond?  

 

I don't know enough about their SOP's but most paid departments supplemented by volunteers are expecting those volunteers to either pull shifts in station, respond to the scene or to the station to bring additional apparatus to supplement the first out apparatus manned by the paid personnel.

 

My earlier post was essentially to say if Greenwich can't or won't afford to put three firefighters on an apparatus, who can?

[CTFF 65]

16 hours ago, SECTMB said:

How do you conduct a primary search with a two person engine? When the homeowner comes running out of the smoke filled house screaming the children are inside, what do you say?  They'll be another truck along in a few minutes!!

 

Where does the money go?  

 

 

First "two in, two out."  goes out the window with a report of people trapped.  Hopefully the adult telling you people are inside should have an idea where the people are, start there.

 

None of this should be a surprise to a firefighter working at a understaffed dept. 

Edited March 18, 2016 by CTFF

[Bnechis 3,961]

3 hours ago, CTFF said:

 

First "two in, two out."  goes out the window with a report of people trapped.  

But it does not go out the window when you pull up and your told everyone's out.  Being told everyone is out does not mean a primary search is not needed and without more staff your options for an interior attack is delayed, allowing the fire to grow and making it more hazardous when the rest of the troops arrive 

[somebuffyguy 190]

20 hours ago, sueg said:

 I remember from the papers Greenwich was very, very busy, and had an arson problem on top of it for the past two years.

According to their website Greenwich FD runs 11.5 calls a day on average. While that would make a busy company, I don't think I'd describe it as a "very very busy department". 

 

Compared to other departments they seem fairly on par regarding staffing. Norwalk only has 20 more firefighters and a much larger population and call volume, same with Danbury.

 

Does anyone have an exact breakdown of how many companies are in Greenwich and what the staffing is? I recently spoke to a Greenwich firefighter who told me the engines downtown had 4, the truck had 3 and engines north of the Merritt had 2 each. But I don't know how many companies that is or if I had mistaken what he said so please correct me. 

 

According to their website Greenwich has 106 firefighters. So if they ran 24 ff at any time (leaving 10 left for administrative positions) they could run 6 fully staffed companies. If they're putting 2 on some rigs with that staffing could it be they're running more engines than they need?

 

Again, I did my research as best as I could, but if there's any mistakes let me know. I'm just throwing out ideas here. 

[CTFF 65]

1 hour ago, Bnechis said:

But it does not go out the window when you pull up and your told everyone's out.  Being told everyone is out does not mean a primary search is not needed and without more staff your options for an interior attack is delayed, allowing the fire to grow and making it more hazardous when the rest of the troops arrive 

 

I agree with your point but the scenario you've presented is vastly different then the scenario I answered.

 

In this case the First Selectman and Fire Chief have informed the citizens of what low staffing could mean for them for a few years now.  The Firefighters are asking for the citizens to let the BET know where they stand.     

 

 

 

 

[Bnechis 3,961]

2 hours ago, somebuffyguy said:

According to their website Greenwich has 106 firefighters. So if they ran 24 ff at any time (leaving 10 left for administrative positions) they could run 6 fully staffed companies. If they're putting 2 on some rigs with that staffing could it be they're running more engines than they need?

I do not know GFD's details, but your assumption of 24 on duty (based on 96 assigned to suppression) is not likely unless they are backfilling about 20% of the time with ot. This is needed to cover contractual time off (vacation, personal days, sick etc.) it often does not cover long term service connected injury or sick leave. If they are not covering it, that would leave them closer to 19 per shift or 4 staffed rigs plus command with an aide.

 

How many engines do you think they need?

 

Greenwich is 67 sq miles. If properly located an engine company (based on ISO & NFPA standards) can cover 1.5 road miles in any direction, that's approximately 5 square miles. When a station is located along a distric (or in this case a state line) the area for that company is cut in half. Even at the maximum road distance of 5 miles, that's about 15 square miles, but your rating will be very poor.

 

now add truck companies, a rescue and tankers.......

 

[LineCapt 134]

Quote

Currently Old Greenwich, Cos Cob, and Byram only have two career firefighters assigned while Central, Glenville, and North St have 4 career firefighters

 

Aren't the areas covered by only 2 firefighters the most dense areas of Greenwich? What is the rationale for the disparity in staffing? And is it one firefighter per apparatus in stations that have multiple pieces?

[dwcfireman 656]

How is the GFD organized?  I know there is a decent career staff, and I know that there are a few volunteer companies throughout the town.  Can anyone explain to me how they are situated?

[sfrd18 360]

There are currently seven firehouses in the town of Greenwich. Five are combination paid/volunteer (Central, Cos Cob, Byram, Glenville, Sound Beach), one is all volunteer (Round Hill) and one is all paid (North Street). Banksville FD in Westchester County provides some coverage to the northern areas of town. The paid GFD currently operates six engine companies and one truck company. Engine 1, Engine 4, and Engine 8 are staffed by four personnel per shift. Engine 2, Engine 3, and Engine 5 are staffed by two personnel. Ladder 1 is staffed by three. There is also a rescue (Rescue 5) that can be cross-staffed if needed. There are also plans to open another firehouse in northwestern Greenwich, which would be Engine 9. I believe the paid GFD does around 4,000 calls annually. EMS is handled by Greenwich EMS.

 

Greenwich Firehouses:

 

Central Firehouse (Fire Headquarters), Amogerone Vol. Fire Co. 1, Vol. Hose & Chemical Co. 2 - 15 Havemeyer Pl., Downtown*

-Engine 1 (4 personnel)

-Ladder 1 (3 personnel)

-Car 3 (Deputy Chief)

-Special Operations 1 (cross staffed incident command unit)

-Amogerone Squad 1

-Vol. Hose & Chemical Squad 11

 

Cos Cob Vol. Fire Co., Cos Cob Fire Police Patrol - 200 E. Putnam Ave.

-Engine 2 (2 personnel)

-Cos Cob Engine 21

-Cos Cob Tanker 2

-Cos Cob Squad 2

-Cos Cob Utility 2

-Cos Cob Marine 2

-Cos Cob Fire Police Patrol 1

-Cos Cob Fire Police Patrol 2

-Cos Cob Fire Police Patrol Boat

 

Byram Vol. Fire Co. - Delavan Ave. & Mead Ave.

-Engine 3 (2 personnel)

-Byram Engine 31

-Byram Utility 3

-Decon. Trailer

 

Glenville Vol. Fire Co. - 266 Glenville Rd.

-Engine 4 (4 personnel)

-Glenville Engine 41

-Glenville Ladder 4

-Glenville Squad 4

-Glenville Utility 4

-Glenville Marine 4

-Decon. Trailer

 

Sound Beach Vol. Fire Co. - 207 Sound Beach Ave.

-Engine 5 (2 personnel)

-Rescue 5 (cross-staffed)

-Sound Beach Engine 51

-Sound Beach Ladder 5

-Sound Beach Squad 5

-Sound Beach Utility 5

-Sound Beach Dive 5

-Sound Beach Tac. 5

-Sound Beach Marine 5

 

Round Hill Vol. Fire Co. - 166 Old Mill Rd.

-Round Hill Engine 61

-Round Hill Engine 62

-Round Hill Tanker 6

-Round Hill Squad 6

 

North Street Firehouse - 669 North St.

-Engine 8 (4 personnel)

 

(*) Central Firehouse currently being rebuilt. Engine 1 and the Deputy Chief are being temporarily housed at Horseneck Ln. & Shore Rd. Ladder 1, Special Operations 1, and Squad 11 are currently being housed at the Cos Cob Firehouse. Squad 1 is currently being housed at the Byram Firehouse.

Edited March 20, 2016 by sfrd18

[SECTMB 612]

44 minutes ago, sfrd18 said:

There are currently seven firehouses in the town of Greenwich. Five are combination paid/volunteer (Central, Cos Cob, Byram, Glenville, Sound Beach), one is all volunteer (Round Hill) and one is all paid (North Street). Banksville FD in Westchester County provides some coverage to the northern areas of town. The paid GFD currently operates six engine companies and one truck company. Engine 1, Engine 4, and Engine 8 are staffed by four personnel per shift. Engine 2, Engine 3, and Engine 5 are staffed by two personnel. Ladder 1 is staffed by three. There is also a rescue (Rescue 5) that can be cross-staffed if needed. There are also plans to open another firehouse in northwestern Greenwich, which would be Engine 9. I believe the paid GFD does around 4,000 calls annually. EMS is handled by Greenwich EMS.

 

Greenwich Firehouses:

 

Central Firehouse (Fire Headquarters), Amogerone Vol. Fire Co. 1, Vol. Hose & Chemical Co. 2 - 15 Havemeyer Pl., Downtown*

-Engine 1 (4 personnel)

-Ladder 1 (3 personnel)

-Car 3 (Deputy Chief)

-Special Operations 1 (cross staffed incident command unit)

-Amogerone Squad 1

-Vol. Hose & Chemical Squad 11

 

Cos Cob Vol. Fire Co., Cos Cob Fire Police Patrol - 200 E. Putnam Ave.

-Engine 2 (2 personnel)

-Cos Cob Engine 21

-Cos Cob Tanker 2

-Cos Cob Squad 2

-Cos Cob Utility 2

-Cos Cob Marine 2

-Cos Cob Fire Police Patrol 1

-Cos Cob Fire Police Patrol 2

-Cos Cob Fire Police Patrol Boat

 

Byram Vol. Fire Co. - Delavan Ave. & Mead Ave.

-Engine 3 (2 personnel)

-Byram Engine 31

-Byram Utility 3

-Decon. Trailer

 

Glenville Vol. Fire Co. - 266 Glenville Rd.

-Engine 4 (4 personnel)

-Glenville Engine 41

-Glenville Ladder 4

-Glenville Squad 4

-Glenville Utility 4

-Glenville Marine 4

-Decon. Trailer

 

Sound Beach Vol. Fire Co. - 207 Sound Beach Ave.

-Engine 5 (2 personnel)

-Rescue 5 (cross-staffed)

-Sound Beach Engine 51

-Sound Beach Ladder 5

-Sound Beach Squad 5

-Sound Beach Utility 5

-Sound Beach Dive 5

-Sound Beach Tac. 5

-Sound Beach Marine 5

 

Round Hill Vol. Fire Co. - 166 Old Mill Rd.

-Round Hill Engine 61

-Round Hill Engine 62

-Round Hill Tanker 6

-Round Hill Squad 6

 

North Street Firehouse - 669 North St.

-Engine 8 (4 personnel)

 

(*) Central Firehouse currently being rebuilt. Engine 1 and the Deputy Chief are being temporarily housed at Horseneck Ln. & Shore Rd. Ladder 1, Special Operations 1, and Squad 11 are currently being housed at the Cos Cob Firehouse. Squad 1 is currently being housed at the Byram Firehouse.

I believe all the stations mentioned have multiple apparatus. What about Sound Beach? It's in Old Greenwich and I think it is 100% volunteer.  When they mention Old Greenwich are they referring to Sound Beach or another station.  If separate stations, does paid Greenwich respond in as well?

 

Do the volunteer components of the department respond on every call or are they special called if the incident exceeds the on duty level of paid personnel?

 

 

[sfrd18 360]

The firehouse in Old Greenwich is known as Sound Beach. Its a combination house with two paid personnel staffing Engine 5 per shift. All the pieces of apparatus at each firehouse, save the paid rigs, are manned by volunteer personnel from that respective volunteer house. The paid GFD responds to all calls throughout the town. The volunteers also respond to calls in their respective areas and throughout town, and supplement the paid units.

Edited March 20, 2016 by sfrd18

[mrhoneydo 6]

On 3/17/2016 at 6:02 PM, Quickness said:

Greenwich fire departments are volunteer supplemented with career members.

If you still believe that, you must still be wearing 3/4 boots and fireball gloves.

The GFD has become a career department supplemented by the volunteers simply by call volume alone. It is totally unreasonable to expect volunteers to staff ALL 4000 plus incidents a year. Can't be done.

The majority of the ACTIVE volunteers are great people with a true desire to serve. But there are still a few "members" who consider the career staff "paid drivers" and will stand on their soapbox complaining that they are being picked on for being held to minimum standards regarding training and accountability. These "members" still conduct backroom politics to block funding and department policy changes because they don't want to lose their fiefdom.

Don't get me wrong. There are career staff who can be difficult to work with also. Not everybody is a model employee. But at the end of the day, both career and volunteer staff are there to help the citizens. But when you go to lengths to block funding or conduct backroom deals so you can retain your status you are doing the community and yourselves a disservice.

Before anyone says that I am volly bashing, I got my start in the volunteer fire service 40 years ago in one of the Greenwich fire companies (Sound Beach). I never forgot where I came from. I still retain that membership to this day. And I also volunteer in the town where I am currently residing for over 25 years. I also served 25 years on the career staff in Greenwich. So I think I am entitled to give my opinions since I have witnessed and dealt with the after effects of these situations first hand over the years.

So, the comments made by the above post still tell me that those members are still out there. They will stop at nothing they continue to block any kind of improvement that would benefit both the volunteer and the career staff and most importantly the citizens of Greenwich.

 

 

[gamewell45 258]

On 3/17/2016 at 4:25 PM, SECTMB said:

How do you conduct a primary search with a two person engine? When the homeowner comes running out of the smoke filled house screaming the children are inside, what do you say?  They'll be another truck along in a few minutes!!

 

Where does the money go?  

 

You do the possible; the impossible is just going to have to wait.