Incident Commander Blue Card Certification Program

[x635 4,066]

Do any local departments require Incident Commanders take the "Blue Card" certification training, and require the certification?

 

Seems like a good idea to me.

 

http://www.bshifter.com/bcmd_ProgramOverview.aspx

 

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/local/simulation-lab-trains-pflugerville-fire-staff-for-/nqjRp/

[pasobuff 38]

Nope.  Especially since it isn't recognized in NYS (OFPC), and you can go through ALL the NIMS courses for little/no cost in the State.....looks like a lot of money to spend on something that I at least have never heard of in my 25+ years in the fire service in NY.....

[16fire5 693]

Been around a while.  It's heavily used in pocks of the country and growing.  While I don't agree with everything there's nothing else like it and it can definitely help get everyone on the same page for ICS and develop new officers.  The radio reports are too long to be practical with the complete read back.  I've seen it in my travels and places that use it like it.  

[Dinosaur 844]

NYS is in the process of working with FEMA and others to establish a bona fide Interstate Incident Management Team Qualifications System (IIMTQS) that would make paying for a Brunacini blue card a waste of money.  As I understand it, this may be formally announced by summer.

 

 

That said, some of the training they do could be incorporated into local ICS training to make it more meaningful and useful as well as more interactive.

 

[x635 4,066]

The basis for this program is the "Red Card", which sets a (very high) standard for Wildland Firefighters. It was initially required by the Federal Government for wildland incidents, and now used by many states and local agencies.

 

http://www.firefighternation.com/article/wildland-urban-interface/red-cards-wildland-firefighting

 

One of the aspects of this particular program/certification that I liked was the requirement for continuing education. It doesn't allow IC's to become complacent, and I believe holds them to a higher standard.

 

The other thing I really liked was the simulation software, which allows for a more dynamic approach for learning and skills evaluation

 

If the Feds can set these standards for wildland firefighting, then why not structural firefighting?

 

[Bnechis 3,961]

49 minutes ago, x635 said:

 

If the Feds can set these standards for wildland firefighting, then why not structural firefighting?

 

Because the standard is for fighting wild land fires on federal land.

[x635 4,066]

2 hours ago, Bnechis said:

Because the standard is for fighting wild land fires on federal land.

 

But, by doing so, they forced many agencies onto this path and applied it to regional incidents on non-Federal land. That way, if the wildfire escalates to a Federal incident, everything is already in place to build upon that structure. This is a very rare example that the Federal Government can enact positive change in the fire service. They could probably say that if your incident commanders aren't "blue card" certified, you don't get Federal grant money. I would bet a lot of people would be going to get this standard then.

 

[Dinosaur 844]

8 hours ago, x635 said:

 

But, by doing so, they forced many agencies onto this path and applied it to regional incidents on non-Federal land. That way, if the wildfire escalates to a Federal incident, everything is already in place to build upon that structure. This is a very rare example that the Federal Government can enact positive change in the fire service. They could probably say that if your incident commanders aren't "blue card" certified, you don't get Federal grant money. I would bet a lot of people would be going to get this standard then.

 

The Federal Government has no jurisdiction in local firefighting.  Only firefighting on federal land and they screw that up to.  Keep the government out of it.  They're the ones that brought us cracker jack courses like NIMS IS-700 and NRF IS-800.  Let's not use the feds and their diluted training methodology as the benchmark.

NYS is working on this.  It may not be as comprehensive as you would like but it will give a real pathway for certification in ICS positions, not just fireground command positions.  Brunacini is laughing all the way to the bank with the blue card program.

Want more comprehensive simulation based training - demand it from NYS.  Wait!  We can't because we keep fighting against a common standard for training to begin with.  Forget about ongoing continuing education training. Ha!

[Bnechis 3,961]

3 hours ago, Dinosaur said:

Want more comprehensive simulation based training - demand it from NYS.  Wait!  We can't because we keep fighting against a common standard for training to begin with.  Forget about ongoing continuing education training. Ha!

All this command training is great, but until we establish a legitimate minimum standard for training for firefighters, company officers and command officers we are spinning our wheels.

 

just this week one Westchester FD past its new minimum standards for becoming chief:

Firefighter 1

iCS

and must live in the district.

 

thats all to be chief of department.

 

and you want advanced command training? Probationary career firefighters have more training in the first 3 weeks of the 17 week academy than this department requires the chief.

[x635 4,066]

It's sad in NY, and to quote kinkchaser, a Barber in NY requires more training then a Fire Chief.

 

When FDNY firefighters get promoted to Lieutenant, they attend FLIP school to learn the skills of the position.

When they become Captain, Battalion Chief, etc is there additional training classes they must attend before taking on the role.
 

Many career departments statewide send their newly promoted career officers to this school, since there's nothing like it in the state.

 

We have volunteer officers, and in this county increasingly younger ones with less experience. I feel this program should set the standard for all volunteer officers as well. And in some cases, so many officers that it dilutes the experience officers could have gotten.

 

I like the continuing education part, because it requires you keep up with what's new and keep your skills fresh.

[Bnechis 3,961]

2 hours ago, x635 said:

Many career departments statewide send their newly promoted career officers to this school, since there's nothing like it in the state.

NYS law requires ALL career officers to FLIP school

[Dinosaur 844]

On 3/18/2016 at 10:11 PM, Bnechis said:

NYS law requires ALL career officers to FLIP school

 

One of the best things NYS has done for the career fire service.  Otherwise we'd get very little training like that.

 

 

[AFS1970 504]

On 3/16/2016 at 9:40 PM, x635 said:

If the Feds can set these standards for wildland firefighting, then why not structural firefighting?

 

Like the old joke says, they would back burn your living room to put out a kitchen fire.

 

Seriously the last thing we need is another federal over reach. Then again we already have an NFPA standard for officers, not everyone uses it. Some states will defiantly say we are not an NFPA state. So what would the point be?

 

Quite a few years ago I re3ad an article about a large wild fire out west. The article quoted some FEMA rep about the need for more manpower. I called to ask about going out. I was referred to my state agency. Who told me I needed a recommendation from local OEM. That was the only easy part. Then I called back the state and they told me I needed a red card. That class is offered once a year in February. As this was the spring time they told me I would have to wait for next year. In the mean time they were bringing in firefighters from Australia & New Zealand, Non firefighting forestry employees and non firefighting trained prisoners. All of whom were somehow superior to a firefighter from this country that wanted the training.

 

So if they run a national standard IC training like this, you will have to wait several months after the fire to become certified to command the fire you are currently at. Barring that option, they will allow you to call mutual aid but only from other countries, not from the next town over. You may also have your health inspector respond because he works for the city, just not as a firefighter.

 

Oh and remember the national standard says that a big truck with a larger TANK of water on it is a tender, because apparently 49 out of 50 states get this one wrong.