Can an Ambulance Be Used as a Flycar?

[Gomer 25]

I hear varying opinions on this topic and can't find anything online so I'll ask here. Can Paramedics use ambulances as single medic flycars?

[EMT111 149]

I've seen it done all the time. Why wouldn't they be able to? 

Edited February 26, 2016 by EMT111

[antiquefirelt 994]

Are you talking about taking an ambulance to an EMS call alone and leaving it and transporting with another service? Would seem to open up a huge issue? On the other had, my dept. routinely sends an ambulance to mutual aid request for ALS back-up, as often the VAC doesn't get a crew and we're left with our medic in the back of their bus with none of their licensed people, which is not allowed here. That said, we have three ALS ambulances and two vehicles available for transporting ALS personnel, so it's not often (extremely rare) that service suffers due to out of service equipment.

[Gomer 25]

I left something out of my post that I should have added.....is there a NYS DOH policy that forbids ambulances being used by a single Paramedic flycar?

[EMT111 149]

1 hour ago, Gomer said:

I left something out of my post that I should have added.....is there a NYS DOH policy that forbids ambulances being used by a single Paramedic flycar?

Nope, In NY, a fly car fits into the category of emergency ambulance service vehicle, which is any vehicle that is not a transporting ambulance that's used by an agency other than an aircraft or boat. This is either accomplished by meeting the minimum equipment requirements for an emergency ambulance service vehicle, which is less stringent than an ambulance, or you can obtain a waiver from DOH to exempt it from requirements as long as you show how the vehicle will be used within the agency. So if you meet the ambulance requirements, you should be more than good to use it as a fly car

 

Quote

Are you talking about taking an ambulance to an EMS call alone and leaving it and transporting with another service? Would seem to open up a huge issue? On the other had, my dept. routinely sends an ambulance to mutual aid request for ALS back-up, as often the VAC doesn't get a crew and we're left with our medic in the back of their bus with none of their licensed people, which is not allowed here. That said, we have three ALS ambulances and two vehicles available for transporting ALS personnel, so it's not often (extremely rare) that service suffers due to out of service equipment.

 

I don't know why leaving an ambulance somewhere would seem to be an issue. As long as it's locked up and everything, and usually if the medic's on another ambulance, all the drugs and stuff are with him. As for having a someone from a different agency alone in the back of your ambulance, NY does not care. The only thing NY cares about is that the person providing patient care is an NY certified EMT/paramedic, not what agency they're from, who's driving, etc.

Edited February 26, 2016 by EMT111

[mfc2257 464]

In 1998 whomever provided ALS in New Castle left their ambulance on my front lawn when my father had a stroke. Medic road onboard CVAC's rig to NWMC. I've seen it done dozens of times at MVA's as well. 

[Ga-Lin 86]

On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 5:18 PM, Gomer said:

I hear varying opinions on this topic and can't find anything online so I'll ask here. Can Paramedics use ambulances as single medic flycars?

 

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 11:05 AM, Gomer said:

I left something out of my post that I should have added.....is there a NYS DOH policy that forbids ambulances being used by a single Paramedic flycar?

While there is no restriction, that I am aware of, of using an ambulance as a fly car, it might cause some awkward conversation on the scene with some of the family members, who might not be up on emergency operations. Especially if there is a delay in getting another ambulance to the scene. you know, paging out several times for a crew even if after waiting( as I have) before telling disp. that I'll ride it in BLS, just get me an ambulance please. I can see it going something like this....

 

"What are we waiting for, my (pick your loved one, wife, husband, child etc) needs to get to the hospital"

" I'm sorry we're waiting for an ambulance"

"Isn't that an ambulance out front" 

"No, that's my fly car"

"It says it's an ambulance"

"Well its a little complicated, you see my (fill in organization) has some difficulty keeping appropriate vehicles on the road some times so we're filling in with what we have in order to to serve the community"

Family member mumbles under breath "The only thing you're serving me is a load of B*##@%&+" "Does it have one of those, whatchamacallits, little beds inside"

"Yes, but I don't have any one else to drive"

"Can't one of the other (half dozen or so) responders (getting in their points) standing around drive for you"

"Well, no they're from a different agency and our insurance won't cover them"

"Well I haven't had an accident in over 20 years, not even a parking ticket, I'll be happy to drive. I'll sign any wavier of liability you want"

"Thank you for the offer, but I can't allow that either"

"Oh hell I'll drive them myself" (after hearing the third or forth page for this location)

" I'm sorry you can't do that until you sign my RMA form"

"RMA form? What's that"

"Well, that says you're Refusing Medical Assistance"

Family member now a little red in the face

"I'm not refusing anything!! You can't get them to the hospital!!"

"Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to control yourself or I'm going to be forced to ask you to leave"

"LEAVE, LEAVE!! THIS IS MY F#*#*&g HOUSE!"

"Sir, sir if you don't get yourself under control I'll be forced to ask the officer to remove you"

It quickly spirals down (as if it could get any worse) from here

 

While this might be a little over dramatized I would rather be spared this particular or similar conversation. While there might not be anything preventing such use I wouldn't want to be involved, thank you. Sending a patient transport vehicle to an emergency and then saying you couldn't transport would be like sending an engine to a confirmed structure fire, KNOWING, that you only have the driver going. (Yeah, I know, unlikely, but it's the only comparison I could think of) "Sorry, I brought the truck but we don't have anyone to man the pumps." Permissible, maybe, but a public relations disaster as the driver and home owner watch the house burn down.

What do you guys out there think? Maybe I should think of starting a new career writing fiction, no? Either that or apply for a job at LoHud! I got it, I could run for President!

 

 

[Dinosaur 844]

1 hour ago, Ga-Lin said:

 

While there is no restriction, that I am aware of, of using an ambulance as a fly car, it might cause some awkward conversation on the scene with some of the family members, who might not be up on emergency operations. Especially if there is a delay in getting another ambulance to the scene. you know, paging out several times for a crew even if after waiting( as I have) before telling disp. that I'll ride it in BLS, just get me an ambulance please. I can see it going something like this....

 

"What are we waiting for, my (pick your loved one, wife, husband, child etc) needs to get to the hospital"

" I'm sorry we're waiting for an ambulance"

"Isn't that an ambulance out front" 

"No, that's my fly car"

"It says it's an ambulance"

"Well its a little complicated, you see my (fill in organization) has some difficulty keeping appropriate vehicles on the road some times so we're filling in with what we have in order to to serve the community"

Family member mumbles under breath "The only thing you're serving me is a load of B*##@%&+" "Does it have one of those, whatchamacallits, little beds inside"

"Yes, but I don't have any one else to drive"

"Can't one of the other (half dozen or so) responders (getting in their points) standing around drive for you"

"Well, no they're from a different agency and our insurance won't cover them"

"Well I haven't had an accident in over 20 years, not even a parking ticket, I'll be happy to drive. I'll sign any wavier of liability you want"

"Thank you for the offer, but I can't allow that either"

"Oh hell I'll drive them myself" (after hearing the third or forth page for this location)

" I'm sorry you can't do that until you sign my RMA form"

"RMA form? What's that"

"Well, that says you're Refusing Medical Assistance"

Family member now a little red in the face

"I'm not refusing anything!! You can't get them to the hospital!!"

"Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to control yourself or I'm going to be forced to ask you to leave"

"LEAVE, LEAVE!! THIS IS MY F#*#*&g HOUSE!"

"Sir, sir if you don't get yourself under control I'll be forced to ask the officer to remove you"

It quickly spirals down (as if it could get any worse) from here

 

While this might be a little over dramatized I would rather be spared this particular or similar conversation. While there might not be anything preventing such use I wouldn't want to be involved, thank you. Sending a patient transport vehicle to an emergency and then saying you couldn't transport would be like sending an engine to a confirmed structure fire, KNOWING, that you only have the driver going. (Yeah, I know, unlikely, but it's the only comparison I could think of) "Sorry, I brought the truck but we don't have anyone to man the pumps." Permissible, maybe, but a public relations disaster as the driver and home owner watch the house burn down.

What do you guys out there think? Maybe I should think of starting a new career writing fiction, no? Either that or apply for a job at LoHud! I got it, I could run for President!

 

 

 

 

That doesn't seem too far off at all.  Sadly, we don't perpetuate the greatest public image with multi-agency, tiered responses that result in a dozen people showing up in 5 different vehicles but no ambulance.

 

 

[GBFD111 73]

While working in St. Lawrence County we used the ambulance as a "flycar" for ALS intercepts all of the time. We would take the on call driver and the ALS and drop off the medic. There were actually many times where we did have to transport in our ambulance due to the other ambulance getting another call while we were on scene so we would handle and transport the ALS call and let the BLS rig go to the BLS call in their district. It worked very well actually. 

[Ga-Lin 86]

16 minutes ago, GBFD111 said:

While working in St. Lawrence County we used the ambulance as a "flycar" for ALS intercepts all of the time. We would take the on call driver and the ALS and drop off the medic. There were actually many times where we did have to transport in our ambulance due to the other ambulance getting another call while we were on scene so we would handle and transport the ALS call and let the BLS rig go to the BLS call in their district. It worked very well actually. 

You weren't a flycar, you were an ALS ambulance responding to a call that, when needed, was able to transport the patient weather ALS or BLS. You were in a vehicle that, because of adequate people, were able to transport. I'm maybe, because of where I have worked, have been a car by my lonesome. So when I think of "Flycar" I think that way. If there are two people in an ambulance, that's what you are, an ambulance, despite what you may call it. The original post was regarding using an ambulance as a single medic flycar.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Ga-Lin

[BMFD363 0]

Used to do it all the time in Putnam. If a fly car was down and the only thing available was an ambulance well it became your fly car. I agree it is over kill but there are no laws against it.

[MEDIC8404 0]

Ive seen this happens ive used an ambulance as a fly car, and like BMFD363 said if a fly car is down for maintenance or mechanical failure and all we have are ambulances than that ambulance becomes the ALS fly car.

Edited February 29, 2016 by MEDIC8404

[EMT111 149]

19 hours ago, Ga-Lin said:

"Yes, but I don't have any one else to drive"

"Can't one of the other (half dozen or so) responders (getting in their points) standing around drive for you"

"Well, no they're from a different agency and our insurance won't cover them"

I've driven the medics fly car/ambulance plenty of times. Never heard anything about an insurance issue. In fact, we almost always get asked to drive the medic's truck in if we have an extra member.

[amr6334 16]

So what separates a fly car from a full blown ambulance doing a meet and assist.  Alamo used to run sometimes from Poughkeepsie to Beacon all the time

[Dinosaur 844]

3 hours ago, amr6334 said:

So what separates a fly car from a full blown ambulance doing a meet and assist.  Alamo used to run sometimes from Poughkeepsie to Beacon all the time

 

Hopefully a safe following distance.

[FireMedic049 597]

6 hours ago, amr6334 said:

So what separates a fly car from a full blown ambulance doing a meet and assist.  Alamo used to run sometimes from Poughkeepsie to Beacon all the time

An actual fly car is a non-transport capable vehicle, typically an SUV or pick up based vehicle and may be staffed with only one Paramedic.

 

The ambulance obviously would be transport capable and be staffed by at least an EMT and Paramedic.

 

There may be some minor differences in the quantities of some equipment carried.

 

Other than that, there's not much of a functional difference when intercepting a BLS ambulance.  However, if the BLS unit fails to respond, you would be able to transport the patient if using an ambulance.