Fire Engine Or Party Wagon?...Parade Safety Strikes Again!!!

[x635 4,066]

I debated whether or not to post this topic. The traditional, good ol' school portion of me says its alright, but the professional side of me says otherwise. Plus, this topic has already been presented by Homer J., but I want to present it with a slightly different angle.

Recently, while visiting a Firehouse while working as a Paramedic, I witnessed a department who had just attended a Parade, speed by on their engine, sirens blasting, with several members soaped and riding on the hosebed, hoisting a tropy as they again, sped by on the country-type road past this firehouse.

Now, again, one part of me thinks, oh back in the day we used to ride up top and whats the harm??? We do it when we have the Santa Claus run. Just having a little fun, nothings going to happen. Why must I be such a spoiled sport? There's plenty of other ways to get injured, and this is really not that dangerous as long as it's done right.

But the professional part of me thinks that this is absurd, and I blame the cheifs of this department, because I have seen it happen repeatedly, especially after parades, despite this department having enclosed cabs with seatbelts. I wonder what would happen if one of these members had gotten struck by a low tree branch, or the engine had to swerve, or one of the members fell of the hosebed of this rig while it was going around 35-40mph??? Especially after the bullpen.

Now, people come on this board and say "We're Professionals Too". No, TRUE professionals do not act this way. How would we justify to ourselves if somebody was injured or killed due to this stupidity??? One of our friends incapicitated or dead due to something that should not have occured? How do we look to the public doing this? How would the chief feel? Has that chief made it known to his members that behavior like this is not tolerated whatsoever?? And are Chiefs and line officers not comprehending they are DIRECTLY responsible for their members safety at all times?????

There's enough danger in this business already...and theres also plenty of true professionals in this business....if you're not going to play safely, then get out of the game.

So, I ask you this question.....is it a Fire Engine, ready to roll at a moments notice with trained professionals ready to save lives and property, or is it a party wagon????

[Remember585 815]

Good point made Seth!

I know exactly what you mean. Every year we debate with our Chiefs about riding atop the rig for our Fire Prevention Day. What kind of message are we providing our community with about safety when we let their children ride somewhere we have deemed unsafe for ourselves?!

In reference to the parade issue, as a general rule, our Company will not provide transportation to or from a parade if the person(s) have been drinking. That rig is in service for alarms once it is back in the district. Why transport people under the influence if the potential for an alarm is still there?

I come from a long-tradition of firefighters - and I can share many stories of yester-year but I won't - because we all know them. The problem is with those of us in the fire service today, and we should be looking out for tomorrow! We can't keep "boozing up" and using a fire engine, Chief's car, bus, etc. to be our party transportation. We have to think about the consequences, not the fun, we can have.

Open-style rigs are a pain in the a$$. Responding to alarms, going to drill, attending parades and even in funerals they continue to be nothing more then a headache. Sure we rode "up top" a few years back, but now that we know the potential for danger, why do we still do it? Sometimes a Chief says it is OK, but what is the Line Officer to do? Refuse? Abide? Who is liable not only in court, but who has to hold on to that guilt if something goes wrong?

Better discipline from the top brass, thorough training programs and smart firefighters will end this problem.

There is NO NEED for anymore L.O.D.I. or L.O.D.D. that we can (and should be) preventing!

[ja3kfd 34]

Well I am going out on the chopping block again,its not the chief solely,The Commisioners need to take the stand,that NO ONE is allowed up on hose bed PERIOD.Rent or buy a bus in this day and age everyone is aching and ready for something like above mentioned happens. WE all know it,just a matter of time.Imagine the head lines.Chiefs come and go quickly a lot quicker than Commisioners do it is there insurance that covers the truck and the men.

[WAS967 97]

So, I ask you this question.....is it a Fire Engine, ready to roll at a moments notice with trained professionals ready to save lives and property, or is it a party wagon????

What would really concern me is if an alarn dropped for said fire company. Then what? Respond to it sloshed? I'm with Jim. Get a bus and shuttle people back and forth to the party. Have a standby crew available to respond to calls if needed (not everyone going to the party drinks do they?).

[Guest alsfirefighter]

No arugment out of me. Everyone pretty much summed it up with their comments. I'm sure John Q Citizen loved it. Nothing like doing something that could get you killed for something that will collect dust by next year.

Anyone forget that Tuesday was the Safety Stand Down? Apparantly they did.

[hudson144 150]

EVERYONE SHOULD TAKE THEIR RIGHT AND LEFT INDEX FINGER AND POINT IT AT THEMSELVES,IN THIS CRAZY WORLD THESE DAYS WE SHOULD ALL KNOW BETTER ABOUT RIDING ON TOP OF RIGS EITHER AT PARADES,SANTA RUNS ETC. ITS PLAIN AND SIMPLE.DON'T DO IT!!!! NOT TOO MANY YEARS AGO RIGHT HERE IN WESTCHESTER A MEMBER OF A LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT DIED FROM INJURYS WHEN HE FELL OFF A RIG,A VERY WELL LIKED AND RESPECTED INDIVIDUAL WHO LOST HIS LIFE,WE SHOULD ALL LEARN FROM OTHER TRAGIC EVENTS AND REMIND OURSELVES THAT SAFETY FOR ALL IS THE # 1 PRIOITY EITHER AT AN EMERGENCY OR NOT AT AN EMERGENCY! IF YOU SEE SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T LOOK RIGHT THEN SPEAK UP AND SAY SOMETHING! BE SAFE-HUDSON

[Guest WolfEMT]

We're supposed to set examples for the public. How do we achieve this goal when we're out acting like a bunch of drunken idiots?

[ajsbear 11]

First we need to cut down the amount of beer after these parades and after meetings. There are many who look at meetings and parades as an excuse to drink. I was once a member of a department whose members came back from parades drunk, hit the firehouse bar right after the meeting and drink till midnight. I have even seen open beer cans in the rig. I'm all for a dry fire house. Limit beer to only the very special event and limit the amount one can have.

[Guest WolfEMT]

Firehouses should be treated like any other public building, that is, alcohol should not be allowed anywhere on the premises. That includes bars in the lounge room and that includes any parties that might go on inside the firehouse, whether it be a department-related function or one in which the firehouse was rented out. Having a lack of maturity and easy access to alcohol was what fueled the Staten Island New Years Eve 2003 Debacle. To paraphrase what an EMT instrutor told my class (she said "There is no sex in EMS"), there is no alcohol in firefighting.

[x635 4,066]

For those discussing that aspect of it, this thread isn't about the possibly intox members, it's about those members in that state riding on top of public firefighting apparatus traveling at a moderate rate of speed down a public thouroughfare, and the safety issues going along with that.

[JBE 328]

That may be so, but 9 times out of 10, the hosebed riding and intoxication goes hand in hand.

[ja3kfd 34]

It all needs to stop,parades,santa runs etc. no one on hose bed period. no one on back step period,no one on side running boards,sit down and belt up,we all do a lot of fund raisisng to support our parades, fun etc. spend some of that money to protect the members period. We can all have drawers full of t shirts work shirts go to conventions and spend that money we all need to take a stand and say enough before it is one of us that gets hurt or worse. I can not imagine what it would be like if one of john Q public kids fell off a engine when we give them a ride at open house.

[TRUCK6018 50]

From "Fire Chief" website:

From the Editor  

Booze Cruisin'  

Janet Wilmoth, Editor

While many fire departments across the nation were actively participating in the national stand down for firefighter safety during this week, one fire department was busy trying to temper news reports that its fire school festivities got out of hand over the weekend.  

Fire Chief John Chapin, New London (Ohio) Volunteer Fire Department, said he knew nothing about the stand down: "I haven't heard anything about it." But Chapin said his department had hosted the annual Northwest Ohio Volunteer Fireman's Association's convention last weekend. He said that his department of 30 volunteer firefighters and had just put on a "great fire school and wonderful parade." While the fire school was great, according to sources, visiting firefighters raised havoc and the evening activities turned ugly.  

Westlake (Ohio) Fire Inspector Jason Casey said the Friday night parade of more than 30 pieces of fire apparatus had firefighters, civilian adults and children "hanging off the tailboards, on the sides, standing on discharge nozzles and many with open beer containers driving down these state roads (at posted speed limits) while blasting the horns and flashing their lights."  

Casey said one person fell off a moving fire truck and broke an arm. A young girl working at a McDonald's told Casey she was shown digital pictures of naked women parading around the NOVFA headquarters for this event. Casey saw a firefighter urinating outside a dumpster.  

Shocked, Casey went over to the park. Firefighters on their department vehicles were driving around, yelling obscenities and encouraging young women to lift their tops for beads.  

"There were more beads than you would ever find in New Orleans," he said. "A Girl Scout leader was sexually harassed at her booth in front of her troop. The band stopped playing and left because too many naked people were on stage."  

A number of area fire departments have refused to host the NOVFA convention due to escalating problems, but members of the New London Volunteer Fire Department believed they could control the situation. On the NLVD Web site, the rules of participation in the convention were clearly spelled out, as well as rules for the campground near the park for visiting firefighters, The rules, however, were obviously ignored.  

Casey's complaints to authorities were dismissed with remarks that it was "just booze cruisin'" and "they were just blowing off steam." When he cited the NFPA standards prohibiting riding on tailboards, one NOVFA association member replied he didn't know NFPA standards applied to "volunteer departments."  

Heard enough?  

According to Chief Chapin, the visiting firefighters were at fault. When asked why his department didn't try to control the unsafe and inappropriate behavior, he replied, "No comment" and hung up.  

Ohio State Fire Marshal's office spokesman Pieter Wykoff explained that the OSFM has no jurisdiction over the local fire departments. He added that when Chief Deputy Fire Marshal Gerry Robinson was a fire chief, he would not allow the convention in his area.  

Jason Casey plans to voice his concerns at an upcoming local council meeting, in spite of being "advised to shut up" and accused of not being a "team player." I'm sure other safety and/or training officers have incurred the same resistance when voicing concerns about unsafe or inappropriate actions. With any luck, Casey won't be a lone voice at that council meeting.  

The real shame is that the Ohio state chiefs' association, state firefighters' association and training academy are among the strongest in the nation. The behavior of a small percentage has left a bad image of firefighters in those that witnessed their rampage. Whether you're wearing a Class A uniform, turnout gear or a navy blue "Fire Department" (or EMS) T-shirt, you represent every firefighter across the country. Riding in a fire truck or other emergency vehicle is an honor not to be taken lightly.  

Who is going to stop the stupidity and "booze cruising" on fire apparatus? It may make for good TV, but it's damn dangerous behavior and an element of culture that must be not be tolerated. I'm afraid New London isn't the only place it happens in this county.  

Janet Wilmoth, Editor  

jwilmoth@primediabusiness.com  

http://firechief.com/