SCBA "Buddy Breathing" Feature

[SilentShadow 32]

A buddy of mines department is spec'ing out some new SCBA's. The Chief is intent that all packs have the "Buddy Breathing" hookup. I guess it's called an "Emergency Breathing Support System", or EBSS. He think it buys time until the RIT team can get there.

Both my buddy and I think it's a ridiculous feature that jeopardizes your air supply in a rescue mission. You have two guys hooked to one bottle, one's in distress and the other's probably all worked up, sucking down now one bottle between the two, and gives you less time to get out. It also tethers you to that firefighter should he experience further distress or become unconscious.

We think having an RIT pack sled with an hour bottle and quick connection is a much better option.

Thoughts?

[dwcfireman 656]

The "buddy Breathing" device is great for FAST teams so they can connect a fresh bottle to you when the arrive, all without disturbing your air flow. The fact that you can dip into someone else's air supply should be made illegal! I'd rather drag you out with almost no air than have you take half of mine....and that's not me being selfish. I don't want to see a LODD, And never do I want to see 2 at once. "Buddy breathing" can be extremely dangerous if you are not ready for it.

[CaptainCharisma 34]

So, instead of having one person in distress, you'll have two.

Not to mention the fact you have to train constantly to remain proficient with this technique.

Does this option cost extra?

[Ladder44 73]

The buddy breathing hook up is more for when you and a partner are doing a search or some sort of task and one runs low on air, ie-consumes a bottle faster due to being worked up or out of shape or whatever the case is, maybe his mask was knocked off and lost a considerable amount of air, if hes at 1/4 bottle and vibrating and your at half or three quarters you two can hook up and even out the two bottles and buy some time to get out of the building, its a separate connection then the RIT quick connect fill which is located on near the valve.

[antiquefirelt 994]

So, instead of having one person in distress, you'll have two.

Not to mention the fact you have to train constantly to remain proficient with this technique.

Does this option cost extra?

So the option is to let your "buddy" suffer until he goes unconscious then drag him to safety? We share masks as a way of ensuring anyone, firefighter or civilian has fresh air to breathe, now we're so self centered we won't share our air? What else won't you do for your fellow firefighters? I hope I'm being over the top, but step back and read what some of you have written.

[FireMedic049 597]

A buddy of mines department is spec'ing out some new SCBA's. The Chief is intent that all packs have the "Buddy Breathing" hookup. I guess it's called an "Emergency Breathing Support System", or EBSS. He think it buys time until the RIT team can get there. Yes, it can provided you have somebody with you while waiting for the official RIT to reach you. You should listen to that Chief.

Both my buddy and I think it's a ridiculous feature that jeopardizes your air supply in a rescue mission. You have two guys hooked to one bottle, one's in distress and the other's probably all worked up, sucking down now one bottle between the two, and gives you less time to get out. It's absolutely not a ridiculous feature. It's use is not specifically limited to a "rescue mission". It's also for use when both people are able to self-extricate, but one doesn't have an adequate air supply. Yes, it technically will give the one with the greater air supply less time to get out, but it will also give the one with a critically low air supply MORE time to get out or at least buy them some time until further help can get to them should they be stuck or incapacitated. That could easily be the difference between life and death for a fellow firefighter. Having that ability at your disposal doesn't sound very ridiculous to me.

It also tethers you to that firefighter should he experience further distress or become unconscious. If you reach a point where you just can't extricate the person while tethered, you can always disconnect.

We think having an RIT pack sled with an hour bottle and quick connection is a much better option.

Thoughts? You should absolutely have both options if you have the ability. The two options should be viewed as complimentary features, not as alternatives to each other. The RIT pack is intended as a means for the RIT to resupply, supplement and/or replace the air supply of a firefighter in distress and/or unable to get out on their own, but it takes time to get it to the person who needs it. The buddy breather connection is more of an immediate, "self-help" option when there's no other viable alternative.

In general, the RIT pack is a much better option since it doesn't deplete the air supply of another firefighter, but the fire service is all about options and redundancy, right?

[HalfVolley 11]

How much is the "Buddy Breathing Connection" versus a RIT pack?

[FireMedic049 597]

The buddy breathing hook up is more for when you and a partner are doing a search or some sort of task and one runs low on air, ie-consumes a bottle faster due to being worked up or out of shape or whatever the case is, maybe his mask was knocked off and lost a considerable amount of air, if hes at 1/4 bottle and vibrating and your at half or three quarters you two can hook up and even out the two bottles and buy some time to get out of the building, its a separate connection then the RIT quick connect fill which is located on near the valve.

When you hook the buddy breather connections together, the two cylinders don't equalize. You breathe off one cylinder, then the other when the first runs out or reaches whatever the "switch" point is for your manufacturer. It's important to know which cylinder you breath off first. Not sure about all manufacturers, but some use up the cylinder with the lower pressure first which can be a big problem if you should have to disconnect at some point.

Using the RIT connection will equalize between the two cylinders that are tethered.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

My feeling is, why not throw it on there to give you another option?

In Prince George's County, MD, we have the following connections on every SCBA (Keep in mind we use 45 minute cylinders)

1. Quick connect on the low pressure air line, between the pack and the regulator (Right shoulder strap)

2. Quick connect receiver (Left shoulder strap)

3. RIT Connection/Equalizer (Rear of the SCBA frame, near the cylinder)

Our RIT packs have the following SCBA equipment:

1. 60 Minute Cylinder

2. Short section of high pressure hose with the RIT Connection

3. 21-foot section of low pressure hose for the quick connect to EBSS

4. Extra Regulator

5. RIT Mask (No nose cone, large key rings to pull the straps tight easier

This allows us to triage and adapt to different types of SCBA emergencies, depending on if the person is trapped or simply lost, or if there is a failure of any part of the SCBA system.

Using the "buddy breather" tether is usually one of our last options, but it doesn't hurt to have it. We train on it fairly regularly, so it isn't really an issue for us. Using the buddy breather on a 30 minute cylinder is pretty much worthless. One could argue that a 45 minute isn't MUCH better, but again, why limit yourself? I can't imagine the price difference is that extreme.

[houlidsa 76]

Guys, I see some accurate info and some dangerous info. This is something guys need to legitimately train with.

Many products out there but here are the two of the three NFPA certified SCBA manufacturers:

1. Scott SCBA buddy breather - the lower filled cylinder will be depleted first when connected with Buddy Breather.

Example: trapped FF has 1/4 cylinder, rescuer has 1/2 cylinder. When connected they combined breath trapped (low cylinder) to 0 then combined breath off of rescuer (high cylinder). This does not allow the rescuer to disconnect and get help if trapped is depleted, hence they are both trapped.

2. MSA SCBA Extendaire II (buddy breather) - the higher filled cylinder will be depleted first when connected with Buddy Breather.

Example: trapped FF has 1/4 cylinder, rescuer has 1/2 cylinder. When connected they combined breath rescuer (high cylinder) to 0 then combined breath off of trapped (low cylinder). This allows the once high to disconnect and get help if he is going to start breathing off the low cylinder.

3. MSA Transfill - equalizes SCBA cylinders (Boyle's Law) allows donor to disconnect or stay connected and they breath evenly down. This is where the URC connection & principal came from. This allows MSA SCBA with a Transfill Quick Connect & Hose or Installed Transfill to be a universal RIT pack of sorts.

4. MSA Extendaire - this is a Quick Connect between 1st & 2nd stage regulators with a "junction box". This is typically used to hook into an aerial's air or air cart. But a FF can disconnect their 2nd stage regulator and connect into the "junction box". Both FFs would be breathing off the same cylinder. If the "junction box" is connected into a MSA Buddy Breather then it works the same as above.

[oldschool 12]

Since when do we leave our downed brother and venture off? If your brother is low on air, you probably are too. You're just dumping off air equalizing bottles. How are you going to save somebody if you can't save yourself. You're making yourself another victim,

I think the money is better spent on a RIT pack and crew.

[Ladder44 73]

When you hook the buddy breather connections together, the two cylinders don't equalize. You breathe off one cylinder, then the other when the first runs out or reaches whatever the "switch" point is for your manufacturer. It's important to know which cylinder you breath off first. Not sure about all manufacturers, but some use up the cylinder with the lower pressure first which can be a big problem if you should have to disconnect at some point.

Using the RIT connection will equalize between the two cylinders that are tethered.

My apologies i worded it wrong, but yes i think the feature is a need.

[FireMedic049 597]

Since when do we leave our downed brother and venture off? Who said anything about leaving a downed brother?

If your brother is low on air, you probably are too. Not necessarily. There are a number of scenerios where that may not be the case. For example, a fresh 2 FF crew is in the process of relieving another 2 FF crew when a collapse happens trapping one of the FFs being relieved. In this situation, you have 2 FFs with potentially a lot more air than the one who is low and trapped.

You're just dumping off air equalizing bottles. If you are buddy breathing, you are NOT equalizing bottles. When you buddy breathe, you are both breathing off the same cylinder until it runs out and then you breathe off the other. For some SCBA manufacturers, you will breathe off the low cylinder first, for others you will breathe off the high cylinder first. Now if you connect using the RIT connection, then you would be equalizing cylinders.

How are you going to save somebody if you can't save yourself. You're making yourself another victim, You aren't necessarily making yourself another victim.

I think the money is better spent on a RIT pack and crew. It's debatable if one is a better option than the other if you can only get one or the other. I can think of several pros and cons for each.

As I said before, if you can afford both, getting both is the way to go. It gives you multiple options, which is typically better than having few or no options if something bad happens, even if some of the options aren't ideal.

If you would be in a situation where you have to bail out of an upper floor, having a ladder in place is certainly better than not having one to use and jumping, risking serious injury. But, wouldn't it be even better to have a personal escape system available to deploy if the ladder isn't where you need it or can't get there in time?

I don't know about you, but I like the idea of having the option to share air if a RIT pack isn't immediately available rather than have a brother get hurt or die because there was no other option than for them to breathe toxic smoke or suffocate.

[STAT213 332]

To me, it's all about options and flexibility. Know your tools, train with them and use what will work best for the given scenario.

You're lost and stumbling through some smoke, low on air. Another crew finds you and can walk you out. You run out of air before you make it out. Would you rather share air and walk out or take in smoke and have to be dragged? That's a no brainer. Plug in and walk out together. Use the EBSS. If you don't spec it, you can't use it.

Should the EBSS be used by RIT teams as the first line? Nope. Does having it increase your options. Yup. Be smart people.