The draft...military that is..

[FFPCogs 863]

I realize this isn't fire related and may offend the sensibilities of some, but just sharing my thoughts on various sites on the state of our world today and what to do about it......

Russian bombers buzzing a U.S. carrier, forcing fighters to be scrambled to defend the ship. China's threats to deny freedom of navigation around the Spratly Islands and the adjacent shipping lanes. North Korea building ICBMs that will reach the U.S. mainland. Iran about to have access to $100 billion thanks to the recent nuclear "deal". Millions of "refugees" flooding Europe and soon to be heading here. A border so porous thousands enter the U.S. illegally every day. ISIS inflaming the Middle East and slaughtering thousands. The Russian military fighting in Syria. Hezbollah stepping up attacks on Israel. The House of Saud in disarray. An American Ranger killed in Iraq during a rescue mission. Troops to remain in Afghanistan indefinitely...and so on and so on.

What I'm about to say I don't say lightly, for I have seen first hand the horror of what war is and what war does to people. That said, with threats looming at every turn and growing stronger and bolder by the day, it is time to bring back the draft. Our national security and the safety of American citizens can only be guaranteed through strength...and that strength can only come from a military that is prepared. I fear that today we are not.

After the lesson of Pearl Harbor and horror of World War 2 our military was tasked with being able to fight two wars at once and that philosophy served us well and kept our enemies at bay. As time has passed we have drifted farther away from that philosophy in the mistaken belief that we "won" the Cold War and are untouchable. While we blissfully basked in our glory, the threats we face have grown ever more numerous and ever more dangerous. Well folks, the the Cold war never ended and new adversaries have since emerged and brought their war to our shores. It is time to awaken from our complacency and face the cold hard truth. We were the top dog only because we paid the price necessary to be it, but that willingness is slipping away. Ignoring the threats will not make them go away and fooling ourselves by denying they exist is even worse. I wish no one harm, nor do I wish to see our young men and women forced to serve needlessly, but if we continue in our ignorance because it's easier, than we will only reap what we have sown with the blood of our children and theirs.

And yes I have a personal stake in this. At 51 I'm too old to be drafted but I do have a son that is 15 and his life is more valuable to me than my own. My boy has no desire to serve in the military at present, and while that may change, it may not. Nor do I want to see my only son get shipped off to die in a foreign land. But this I know, if he were to be drafted than he would serve. And I know this because he is my son and we talk as men. So yes he would serve, in small part because I'd want him to, but in far larger measure because he knows what his responsibilities are as American. He knows and he understands that his freedom and the freedom of all Americans isn't free. He realizes that, like his grandfather before him, he may be called upon to risk himself now to face down our enemies so that his children won't have to later.

The idea of bringing back the draft is not popular, that's for sure, but the the evidence is there for those with eyes to see that makes clear it is necessary.

Edited October 30, 2015 by FFPCogs

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Older men declare war. But it is the youth that must fight and die.

-Herbert Hoover

Sounds like you are signing up your son, and the sons of others, to die for an ideology they do not support.

At least ISIL brainwashes and indocrinates all of their youth before sending them to martyrdom.

Edited October 30, 2015 by SRS131EMTFF

[somebuffyguy 190]

You do understand ISIS and the current refuge crisis in Syria wouldn't exist had we not invaded Iraq and later interfered in the Syrian civil war right?

[FFPCogs 863]

Older men declare war. But it is the youth that must fight and die.

-Herbert Hoover

Sounds like you are signing up your son, and the sons of others, to die for an ideology they do not support.

At least ISIL brainwashes and indocrinates all of their youth before sending them to martyrdom.

There's a big difference between having a large standing military force ready to react to aggression and dying for an ideology or becoming a martyr. The strength of a free and democratic nation deters the aggression of those who would seek to destroy that freedom or impose their will on others. My son, of his own free will, is prepared to do his part to defend this country as a draftee if it comes to that. I do not call that brainwashing, I call that being an American.

You do understand ISIS and the current refuge crisis in Syria wouldn't exist had we not invaded Iraq and later interfered in the Syrian civil war right?

Be that as it may, the threats are real and growing, not unlike the Nazi's of the 1930's and finger pointing backwards doesn't change that. What happened yesterday to cause the rise of ISIS or embolden Russia, China, North Korea ect is over and done with and can't be undone. The problem now is what to do about the reality of today to secure our country now and in the future.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Russian bombers buzzing a U.S. carrier, forcing fighters to be scrambled to defend the ship. China's threats to deny freedom of navigation around the Spratly Islands and the adjacent shipping lanes. North Korea building ICBMs that will reach the U.S. mainland. Iran about to have access to $100 billion thanks to the recent nuclear "deal". Millions of "refugees" flooding Europe and soon to be heading here. A border so porous thousands enter the U.S. illegally every day. ISIS inflaming the Middle East and slaughtering thousands. The Russian military fighting in Syria. Hezbollah stepping up attacks on Israel. The House of Saud in disarray. An American Ranger killed in Iraq during a rescue mission. Troops to remain in Afghanistan indefinitely...and so on and so on.

So many wrong points here it is almost farsical.

Russian bombers buzzing a U.S. carrier, forcing fighters to be scrambled to defend the ship.

Total non-story. Russians were operating in international waters and were intercepted by South Korean Air Force prior to an USS Reagan F/A-18C/Ds. Whipped into controversy by Fox News but totally par for the course.

China's threats to deny freedom of navigation around the Spratly Islands and the adjacent shipping lanes.

Considering China is a mostly brown navy on the best of days again, there is no challenge to American power in the South China Sea unless you count unmarked obsticles which have sunk more navy ships in recent memory then any boomer, AShM or diesel-electric submarine since the Falklands.

Iran about to have access to $100 billion thanks to the recent nuclear "deal".

You mean the deal to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons in the Middle East and replace the nuclear weapons material with power generating material? Sounds like a lot of peace to me. That $100 billion will do wonders modernizing their infrustructrue and spreading American goodwill in the region.

North Korea building ICBMs that will reach the U.S. mainland.

Japan or Guam maybe but only Russia can reach US mainland from their mainland. Good thing both Japan and S. Korea have AEGIS based missle defence supplied by the US military.

Millions of "refugees" flooding Europe and soon to be heading here.

See US invasion and destabilization of Iraq and subsequent unrest, destabilization in Syria courtesy of G.W. Bush.

A border so porous thousands enter the U.S. illegally every day.

"Inscription on the Statue of Liberty"

Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses, yearning to breath free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,

Send these, the homeless, tempest tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

-Emma Lazarus

ISIS inflaming the Middle East and slaughtering thousands.

See Iraq comments from above.

The Russian military fighting in Syria.

Invited by the Syrian Government and while bombing FSA positions, has more to lose from extremism and terrorism given its proximity to Syria and large muslim regions and population.

Hezbollah stepping up attacks on Israel.

Hezbollah hasen't attaked Israel since the begining of the January and considering I drove the entire Lebanon/Israel border in May, there is not much to worry about there.

The House of Saud in disarray.

Not sure how you are calling them in disarray as they are actively competing with the US in the global oil market making American petro products uneconomical to export. They are also winning in Yemen against the Houthi.

An American Ranger killed in Iraq during a rescue mission.

Died on a rescue mission rescuing hostages earning America more good will.

De oppresso liber.

Troops to remain in Afghanistan indefinitely

We are not the only NATO forces present in country and the 9,000 is way less than the 100,000+ we had at the height of surge.

Edited October 30, 2015 by SRS131EMTFF

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

The problem now is what to do about the reality of today to secure our country now and in the future.

Be a better global parter. Free the oppressed, feed the hungry, heal the sick and help the needy. All of those will do much more for American safety then any draft will ever do.

"I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail."

Edited October 30, 2015 by SRS131EMTFF

[M' Ave 1,466]

Be that as it may, the threats are real and growing, not unlike the Nazi's of the 1930's and finger pointing backwards doesn't change that. What happened yesterday to cause the rise of ISIS or embolden Russia, China, North Korea ect is over and done with and can't be undone. The problem now is what to do about the reality of today to secure our country now and in the future.

If only we'd learn from the past and stop doing it over and over again in the future....

I can be a little hawkish....but we're digging a lot of holes for ourselves....

On the flip-side, I'd like to see us actually fight someone, and not in the media and the television cameras. War is ugly, now it has to deal with the flow of easy information and public perception.

[FFPCogs 863]

Be a better global parter. Free the oppressed, feed the hungry, heal the sick and help the needy. All of those will do much more for American safety then any draft will ever do.

You mean like the billions we spend annually doing just that around the world, including in some of those very same places that are now in anarchy. The results of trying to buy security in those ways have proven to be less than effective to say the least.

"Walk softly and carry a big stick"

Theodore Roosevelt

So many wrong points here is is almost farsical.

Total non-story. Russians were operating in international waters and were intercepted by South Korean Air Force prior to an USS Reagan F/A-18C/Ds. Whipped into controversy by Fox News but totally par for the course.

Considering China is a mostly brown navy on the best of days again, there is no challenge to American power in the South China Sea unless you count unmarked obsticles which have sunk more navy ships in recent memory then any boomer, AShM or diesel-electric submarine since the Falklands.

You mean the deal to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons in the Middle East and replace the nuclear weapons material with power generating material? Sounds like a lot of peace to me. That $100 billion will do wonders modernizing their infrustructrue and spreading American goodwill in the region.

Japan or Guam maybe but only Russia can reach US mainland from their mainland. Good thing both Japan and S. Korea have AEGIS based missle defence supplied by the US military.

See US invasion and destabilization of Iraq and subsequent unrest, destabilization in Syria courtesy of G.W. Bush.

"Inscription on the Statue of Liberty"

Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses, yearning to breath free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,

Send these, the homeless, tempest tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

-Emma Lazarus

See Iraq comments from above.

Invited by the Syrian Government and while bombing FSA positions, has more to lose from extremism and terrorism given its proximity to Syria and large muslim regions and population.

Hezbollah hasen't attaked Israel since the begining of the January and considering I drove the entire Lebanon/Israel border in May, there is not much to worry about there.

Not sure how you are calling them in disarray as they are actively competing with the US in the global oil market making American petro products uneconical to export. They are also winning in Yemen against the Houthi.

Died on a rescue mission rescuing hostages earning America more good will.

De oppresso liber.

We are not the only NATO forces present in country and the 9,000 is way less than the 100,000+ we had at the height of surge.

Interesting view, but obviously I disagree. I'm confident history, especially the history of the 20th century, shows that true security comes from military strength not negotiating with tyrants and fanatics . Far more often than not it is the knowledge that your adversaries possess overwhelming military force and the willingness and ability to project it that is the deterrent, not kind words and piles of cash.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

"Walk softly and carry a big stick"

Theodore Roosevelt

Interesting view, but obviously I disagree. I'm confident history, especially the history of the 20th century, shows that true security comes from military strength not negotiating with tyrants and fanatics . Far more often than not it is the knowledge that your adversaries possess overwhelming military force and the willingness and ability to project it that is the deterrent, not kind words and piles of cash.

Didn't stop 4 planes from being crashed into PA, the Pentagon and WTC. And hasn't stopped mostly stone aged tech farmers from stopping NATO and Russians for 4 decades in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Do not forget Syria was once one of the largest and best equipped militaries in the Middle East outside of Egypt, Saudis and Israel. Look where the knowledge of their overwhelming military forces is now.

The 21st Century will show that peace comes from hearts and minds, not from JDAMs and M4s or gun boat diplomacy.

You sound no better than those who say we need to nuke Iraq, Syria and Afganistan to "fix the problems" over there. You may have seen the war first hand, but your understanding lacks substance.

Edited October 30, 2015 by SRS131EMTFF

[ex-commish 490]

Didn't the military downsize? Is there a need for a draft? I thought enlistment was up due to a poor economy. As far as bringing it back I am not sure that is a viable option but if it was they should allow people over 35 to enlist I am 52 and would rather go than my 23 year old son who is a NYPD cop and fighting a different war here back at home.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Any belief that a draft would be better than an all volunteer force are sufficently put to bed with this RAND study.

The Evolution of the All-Volunteer Force

http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9195/index1.html

[FFPCogs 863]

they should allow people over 35 to enlist I am 52 and would rather go than my 23 year old son who is a NYPD cop and fighting a different war here back at home.

As would I, but that is not possible, at least not at this time.

[FFPCogs 863]

Didn't stop 4 planes from being crashed into PA, the Pentagon and WTC. And hasn't stopped mostly stone aged tech farmers from stopping NATO and Russians for 4 decades in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Do not forget Syria was once one of the largest and best equipped militaries in the Middle East outside of Egypt, Saudis and Israel. Look where the knowledge of their overwhelming military forces is now.

The 21st Century will show that peace comes from hearts and minds, not from JDAMs and M4s or gun boat diplomacy.

You sound no better than those who say we need to nuke Iraq, Syria and Afganistan to "fix the problems" over there. You may have seen the war first hand, but your understanding lacks substance.

• 9/11 was not the fault of the military it was the fault of the mistakes made by our politicians, and President Clinton in particular, in ignoring intelligence and letting bin Laden escape when he could have been killed or captured. Same for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. those "stone aged farmers" have not stopped anyone, it is a lack of political will to see the job done that prevents a meaningful victory. Fact is by all accounts both the surge in Iraq and the one in Afghan were successful and stabilized the areas that they were intended to. It was only after the change in the rules of engagement that there was a resurgence of the militant extremists. This problem was further compounded by the withdrawl of combat troops. A perfect example of weakness allowing the growth of fanaticism and it's attendant violence.

• The Syrian Army is a poor example, as are most other armed Forces in the region. Syria may have fielded one of the Middle East's largest military machines, but it was an extremely corrupt one and one that is far from a stellar military force. The Israelis have routed them on every occasion they met.

• Agreed in the 21st Century it will be hearts and minds....backed up by a military capable of vanquishing threats when they appear, not after the damage has been done.

• To your last point sir I must respectfully but strongly disagree. My understanding of war and the use of military force is actually quite extensive both by personal experience and a voracious appetite for history. It is grounded firmly in reality.

Any belief that a draft would be better than an all volunteer force are sufficently put to bed with this RAND study.

The Evolution of the All-Volunteer Force

http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9195/index1.html

Great article, when talking about the limited types of conflicts we have been engaged in recently. In these "limited" wars our exemplary volunteer and highly professional military does their job well...within the confines of what they are actually allowed to do that is. But as 2016 approaches we are entering into a new reality where a resurgent Russia and a bellicose and economically powerful China are flexing their muscles on a number of fronts. Often times it is the smallest spark that ignites a firestorm (i.e.World War I) and with the increased tensions and the potential for accidental confrontation the notion of a third World War is not as absurd as it was just 10 short years ago. An all volunteer military, no matter how professional, will be overwhelmed in short order. Roosevelt read the writing on the wall and instituted a draft in 1940 just prior to World War II and by doing so gave us a chance when we were in our darkest hour.

After a quick surf of the net here's just a few articles in support of reinstating the draft, although somewhat redundant there are some salient points being made:

http://listverse.com/2015/02/07/10-arguments-in-support-of-bringing-back-the-draft/

http://quietmike.org/2015/04/03/five-reasons-reinstate-military-draft/

http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/07/03/mcchrystal-time-to-bring-back-the-draft/

[FFPCogs 863]

So many wrong points here it is almost farsical.

You mean the deal to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons in the Middle East and replace the nuclear weapons material with power generating material? Sounds like a lot of peace to me. That $100 billion will do wonders modernizing their infrustructrue and spreading American goodwill in the region.

Farcical? I think not. This "deal" will not "prevent" Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons" or "spread American good will" anywhere, or "modernize" Iranian infrastructure. More likely it will only ensure they acquire them sooner rather than later, undermine whatever credibility we may still enjoy in the region and be used to modernize their military to make the Iranian theocracy THE major player in the Middle East.

Our current and extremely naive administration, in it's overriding desire to secure a legacy of "peace" allowed itself to be duped and we are still being played by the Iranians:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/majid-rafizadeh/khameneis-new-nuclear-con_b_8446374.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

You mean the deal to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons in the Middle East and replace the nuclear weapons material with power generating material? Sounds like a lot of peace to me. That $100 billion will do wonders modernizing their infrustructrue and spreading American goodwill in the region.

This deal will not prevent the spread of nuclear weapons in the middle east and it will not change the centuries of hatred, venom, vitriol and violence in the region.

100 Billion dollars would do wonders to the infrastructure right here in the US or our homeless problem rather than sending it to a country that has traditionally not been an ally of ours.

[somebuffyguy 190]

This deal will not prevent the spread of nuclear weapons in the middle east and it will not change the centuries of hatred, venom, vitriol and violence in the region.

100 Billion dollars would do wonders to the infrastructure right here in the US or our homeless problem rather than sending it to a country that has traditionally not been an ally of ours.

According to twenty-nine of the country's top nuclear scientists it will prevent the spread of nuclear weapons.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/world/29-us-scientists-praise-iran-nuclear-deal-in-letter-to-obama.html

Please show me a credible article stating that the United States is actually sending $100 Billion of our own money to Iran. From actual sources I've read that money is already Iran's from oil sales, but these assests are frozen in foreign banks due to current sanctions.

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/07/16/423562391/lifting-sanctions-will-release-100-billion-to-iran-then-what

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/06/world/middleeast/conflicting-claims-cloud-irans-financial-gain-in-nuclear-deal.html?_r=0

While I can understand making the argument that sanctions shouldn't be lifted, there's a world of difference between allowing them to have their own money compared to us handing them a check for $100 Billion.