The General Lee

[SECTMB 612]

Date:
Time:
Location:
District:
Units:

Description:

I can't be sure, but I just saw an Autotrader ad with Bo and Luke in the General Lee and it looked to me that the roof, formerly painted with the Confederate bars and stars, was 'whited out'.

[AFS1970 504]

I heard that Warner Brothers has said they will no longer license any General Lee products.

This of course because a show about two convicted felons who repeatedly ran from the law was not a bad idea. But the car they drove in the 1970's having the same logo as one owned by someone else in 2015 who may never have even seen the show, well that's clearly racist.

[50-65 205]

While slavery was the driving issue of the civil war, the greater issue was that of states rights to govern themselves vs an overbearing central government. The Confederate flag is a symbol of a war lost. I don't believe that slavery as it existed in the 1860's was morally correct. Unfortunately, the greater issue was also lost as we have seen in the 150 years since, especially in the last 7 years as the central government has taken or attempts to take over nearly every aspect of our lives. Not through the legislative branch as designed, but through the judicial and executive branches and the regulatory agencies that have no oversight.

I have a Confederate flag. I am not a racist. I think there are those that want to make it a symbol, a cause if you will, of an unjust time in our history. The leftist, socialist elites that permeate our society are intentionally sowing strife and discord between the races. That flag has a place in our history. I, and others, may not agree with your reason(s) for displaying it, but I support your right to it.

Will the government next try to abolish use of the Gadsden flag as a symbol of those that do not agree with their overreach?

And after that?

This country needs to wake up and people need to open their eyes to what is going on and what's going to happen.

[SECTMB 612]

History should always be viewed in the proper context. It is not proper to apply the values that exist today with the values that were in place 100, 200, 300 years ago. People and their civilizations evolve over time and actions and practices that we revile and reject today were simple considered the norm generations and centuries ago.

I think you can try to dictate and legislate behavior, which is what our government is trying to do, but it really only changes when the hearts and minds of the citizenry believe in and accept the changes.

[M' Ave 1,466]

I'm no fan of this liberal gov't or the agenda that it's pushing. I also don't think the confederate flag has anything to do with that tragic mass-murder a couple of weeks ago. However, lets not get crazy....no one is saying you can't fly or display a confederate flag. Each person is free to do so under the constitution. What is at issue is whether a gov't institution should be flying that flag. My personal opinion is no.

I'll soap box a little further....the confederate flag is a flag of treason. Today, we'd probably have branded them terrorists. Lastly, The flag that is currently flying over the Carolina State House was only raised in the 1960's as a symbol of defiance in the face voting rights and school integration. So, it's not some historic battle flag that'd been flying there for a century, it's simply a symbol of division.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I'm no fan of this liberal gov't or the agenda that it's pushing. I also don't think the confederate flag has anything to do with that tragic mass-murder a couple of weeks ago. However, lets not get crazy....no one is saying you can't fly or display a confederate flag. Each person is free to do so under the constitution. What is at issue is whether a gov't institution should be flying that flag. My personal opinion is no.

I'll soap box a little further....the confederate flag is a flag of treason. Today, we'd probably have branded them terrorists. Lastly, The flag that is currently flying over the Carolina State House was only raised in the 1960's as a symbol of defiance in the face voting rights and school integration. So, it's not some historic battle flag that'd been flying there for a century, it's simply a symbol of division.

Exactly, in a historical context it can be appropriately displayed.

But to fly it as some kind of middle finger to the north ignores a key rule of warfare that has existed for thousands of years: Winner picks the decor...

[50-65 205]

I'll soap box a little further....the confederate flag is a flag of treason. Today, we'd probably have branded them terrorists.

Today, the founding fathers of this country would be branded terrorists.

[FireMedic049 597]

I find it amazing that people find that flag offensive but no one sees a problem with standing on, mutilating or burning our American flag.

You must not be paying attention really well because I've seen lots of people taking issue with the things you listed and they have been doing it for a long, long time.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

You are missing the point I was making. Many of the same people who take offense to the confederate flag are the same ones that destroy our flag. Plenty of flags are burned or stepped on and they never face consequence even though there are laws in this country against doing so. I cant recall hearing of one arrest for it. I know people take "issue" with it but it never seems to go further than that. There is a law on the books. We need to start enforcing it.

Nope, sorry, wrong, try again. U.S. vs. Eichman is very clear:

"While flag desecration -- like virulent ethnic and religious epithets, vulgar repudiations of the draft, and scurrilous caricatures -- is deeply offensive to many, the Government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable."

-Pp. 313-319.

Written by SCOTUS Justice Brennan

[M' Ave 1,466]

I'll soap box a little further....the confederate flag is a flag of treason. Today, we'd probably have branded them terrorists.

Today, the founding fathers of this country would be branded terrorists.

That's right, and by Great Britain, they were. Then we won the war and became a sovereign nation. The end.

I find it amazing that people find that flag offensive but no one sees a problem with standing on, mutilating or burning our American flag.

I see lots of problems with burning the American Flag. If someone shot the next person they saw doing it, I'd stand up and cheer! However, we have a lot of freedoms in this country, freedom of expression and such. The same freedom allows anyone to fly a Confederate flag loud and proud. The amount of freedom we have in this country means we have to be tolerant of things we don't like.

We can't stand on something like the 2nd Amendment to defend our rights to bear arms, but seek to take away the protections of another amendment. That's pretty contradictory.

I don't often support the Federal Gov't curtailing any individuals rights, even if that means a disgustingly tasteless display, such as desecrating Old Glory.

[FireMedic049 597]

You are missing the point I was making. Many of the same people who take offense to the confederate flag are the same ones that destroy our flag. Plenty of flags are burned or stepped on and they never face consequence even though there are laws in this country against doing so. I cant recall hearing of one arrest for it. I know people take "issue" with it but it never seems to go further than that. There is a law on the books. We need to start enforcing it.

I didn't miss your point, you failed to make the point you wanted to make. There is a difference.

[AFS1970 504]

I have a confederate flag, and oddly enough it looks only a little like the battle flag that was on top of the General Lee. That is because the Southern Cross was never the flag of the confederacy. I also have a Gadsden among other various flags.

Mass killings, especially in a church, are something that most normal people can not even conceptualize. Thus in order to make sense out of the senseless, we blame inanimate objects. We see this often with guns, but in this case it is a flag. While I think that the governor of SC caved in to liberal pressure, I can honestly say that as a state governor it is her right to be that cowardly and Lilly-livered. I could not defend states rights as a concept and take any other stance.

As for all the corporate shunning and banning, well we have the chance to fight that with a good old fashioned pocketbook protest. TV Land has announced they will no longer carry the Dukes of Hazard, I suggest we let them know that we will no longer be watching Emergency! or CHiP's on that channel either.

As for enforcing the law about flags, well I hope to see you all at Old Navy this week when they unveil this years illegal American Flag T-Shirt. The US Code about flags specifically prohibits the flag from being used as an article of clothing or for advertising purposes. I refused to eat in a restaurant that was flying a tattered flag.

The flag of treason brings up an interesting point. I had a friend years ago who insisted that it was illegal to fly the confederate flag because it was the flag of a vanquished enemy. He could not explain why then it was not similarly illegal to fly the flags of Japan, Germany or even Great Brittan. He did try and claim that those countries were now under different governments, although that simply is not true in the case of Great Brittan. I argued that the Confederacy was no longer the government of any of the southern states.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

It is what it is. Warner Brothers does not want to take the hit of bad PR that it will undoubtedly take if it does not do this. It's one thing for a private individual to fly this flag and display it, but a "public" company so to speak. Not in 2015.

About 6 years ago or so one of my departments Engine companies took a hit because there nickname since the 1920's was the Rebels. Unfortunately that flag is associated with the name. Their company logo displayed a confederate flag. After community uproar it was removed. You can't defend this image and win, trust me on this.

It's just a matter of time for other "public" companies, agencies or sports teams who display this flag to come under fire.

[M' Ave 1,466]

While I think that the governor of SC caved in to liberal pressure, I can honestly say that as a state governor it is her right to be that cowardly and Lilly-livered. I could not defend states rights as a concept and take any other stance.

As for enforcing the law about flags, well I hope to see you all at Old Navy this week when they unveil this years illegal American Flag T-Shirt. The US Code about flags specifically prohibits the flag from being used as an article of clothing or for advertising purposes. I refused to eat in a restaurant that was flying a tattered flag.

The flag of treason brings up an interesting point. I had a friend years ago who insisted that it was illegal to fly the confederate flag because it was the flag of a vanquished enemy.

So, it's cowardly and lilly-livered to take down a flag that was flown specifically to show rejection to Civil Rights laws and integration? That flag was not flown from the South Carolina Capital until the 1960's and it was done so just to show contempt for Federal Laws banning segregation. Simply put, that flag was flown in support of segregation. Period. You wanna fly one? Go ahead, it's your right as a private citizen. Institutions of state, however, should not.

As for Old Navy's "illegal" shirt....there's nothing illegal about it. The US Code as it relates to the treatment of our flag is not law. It's a code of conduct and instruction in how to properly care for or flag. Personally, I follow these codes. I do not fly my flag at night and it NEVER touches the ground. When tattered, I drop it at the VFW in for proper disposal. However, should someone chose to shamefully ignore these rules, they have that right and they're not breaking the law.

Lastly, it is not illegal to fly the flag of a vanquished enemy....your friend is mistaken. However, Stars and Bars, it is a flag of insurgency.

[SECTMB 612]

So, according to todays news, Pro Golfer Bubba Watson, who owns the original General Lee from the TV series, will repaint the roof and replace the Confederate stars and bars with the US stars and stripes.

Pretty easy these days to erase and re-write history and disturbing how willing so many are to accept the re-write.

[AFS1970 504]

Yes I do believe that it is cowardly to remove the flag now. As has been pointed out it has been flying there since the 1960's. Thus is is not any more or less racist now than it was in 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990 ect. To remove it now because it has suddenly become something just because someone who did something bad also happened to own this flag is cowardly. There have been many attempts to remove not only this flag but to change any flag containing this flag and most if not all have failed. Regardless of what motivated the state of South Carolina to fly this flag after 50 years of so, it could be argued that even this new use of the flag has become historical. History should never be revised.

I have an idea. Because in our oh so hateful past, we used to think of witchcraft as a crime, and because fire was used in some but all executions of witches, and because we now understand witches to be nice nature loving people, perhaps all fire departments should have to change the name to extinguishing departments as the mere presence of the word fire could potentially be seen as possibly offensive to a small number of people. For that matter should red even be allowed as the color of fire apparatus? I mean it too reminds one of fire. Perhaps we should remove the Maltese cross, as that is a symbol of the crusades and could be offensive to both Jewish and Muslim citizens and certainly could be seen as a sign of medieval violence.

Or maybe we could just calm down and grow up. Crimes are committed by criminals not the posters criminals hang on their walls.

[M' Ave 1,466]

...I thought this was a rational discussion.

The Confederate Flag is a symbol of division. It represents a time that tore this country in half and killed hundreds of thousands of Americans. Ahhh, but whatever, Pride not Predudice right?

(Rolls Eyes)

The. End.

[AFS1970 504]

This should be a rational discussion, however it is not about the war between the states and it never was. If this had anything to do with that terrible time in our history, then this would have been brought up some other time since the 1870's. This recent disdain for a flag that bears some resemblance to a flag used by some confederate forces is all about political correctness. It is being tied to a horrible event that it had little to do with.

While it is tempting to say that we should get rid of things that divide us, the fact is that if we continue to revise history then we have created a worse crime than any historical event could have. This is about a very vocal minority pushing their agenda on the rest of the country. We should never forget those that died in the war between the states, on either side. If we forget it, it will happen again.

[M' Ave 1,466]

No one, NO ONE is suggesting that we forget thsoe that died in the Civil War. The flag has nothing to do with recent events, however it is a symbol of division and treason and it should NOT fly over a State House. It belongs in history books and museums.

Wanna fly it? Go ahead. But it doesn't belong on State land.

[DR104 141]

Leave it to history class? I don't they even talk about the civil war any more in schools. Watch the link below of a girl interviewing college students and asking them who won the Civil War. Only one knew it, and she wasn't to sure of her answer. Then she asked who Brad Pitt was married to and who he was married to before and they all got that correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRZZpk_9k8E