Why Can't It Get Fixed

[SECTMB 612]

Back to what's wrong with the site, there are lots of good criticisms and ideas to make things better, but we are just talking amongst ourselves and none of the ideas ever seems to get to someone who can effect change.

We all know the volunteer departments are hurting, especially ems. You just have to monitor the scanner and hear the re-tones to know that. Why don't officials from local governments know what is happening? Are the Chiefs too proud to talk about the problem?

I was a volunteer for 37 years. I stared in ems when it was still Red Cross first aid training and I became one of the first EMT's in my department when that program was first introduced back in the early 70's. But over the years things have changed both with fire and ems and I don't think it is possible to balance job, family and fire/ems anymore and be truly proficient at each.

My Grandfather was Hope Hose, my father Hope Hose and Hilltop and my myself, my brothers and their sons Scarborough. I believe my nephews to be the last generation of a 100% volunteer department. We used to go out to reported fires, now departments go out for 'lock-outs'. People used to take themselves to the emergency room, now an ambulance is dispatched for a 'not feel well'. Call volumes for less than true emergencies have skyrocketed and for volunteers its a problem. You shouldn't pick and choose, but when the alarm comes in at 3:00 AM for New Dorm at Pace, you know damn well its another microwave popcorn call and you will get turned around if you even make it to the firehouse before the call is cancelled.

I know that the paid guys will say, what if it isn't the popcorn? Well that is one big difference between paid and volunteer. You are already at the station, dedicating a specific period of time to respond to calls. You are not already at your 'regular' job, getting prepared for work, taking care of children, whatever you may be doing at any time of the day or night and have to stop and go out the door to a call, 90% or more that will be unnecessary because of either our increased Nanny State mentality of our fear of legal liability for not answering a call initiated by some electronic device somewhere. Gone too are the days of the police checking it out before dispatching additional services.

So, I don't see call volume decreasing so I see increased demands on time for calls and time for training. Firefighting is a young persons job and today there are a lot more demands on young people who are dealing with getting an education and a job, starting a family and giving back the time to devote to fire/ems is more difficult. I think that it is inevitable for volunteer departments to have to transition to, initially some paid, especially days, and eventually to paid. I also feel that a County department is the answer and I don't want to hear about the law.

Change the laws if they need to be changed, Apparently you only need three people in Albany to do anything so how hard can it be. I have been in the South for almost 10 years and in both the towns I have lived in they were covered by the County for Sheriffs, Fire and EMS. The larger cities still had their own, but the rest of the towns and villages were covered by the County with a lot fewer stations and apparatus than cover Westchester. And, Palm Beach County has 30% more people and 5X the area of Westchester.

Some who haven't been around that long won't remember that the County PD used to be the Parkway PD. They embarked on an expansion and redefinition of themselves and have emerged as a major player in law enforcement.

Is there no public safety committee within the State and/or County legislatures that is willing to take on the problems in fire/ems? These are life and death issues that you would think demand some attention from our elected officials.

Oh, by the way, there is no Nirvana, my current County (Marion) department is losing personnel at an alarming rate to other City and County departments that pay better. Firefighter/Emts are making about $10-$12 dollars an hour and the local County officials refuse to address the issue because they can't find the money without raising taxes. And Palm Beach (City) is bitching that the County is poaching the City's firefighters after the City has spent the money to train them.

Let's come back this next year. Nothing will have changed. In the end, it's all politics.

[mainehouse 3]

Well said. It has always been a mystery to me why in Westchester County, an area know for its wealth, an area of generally educated people that a volunteer system established in the 1940's to about 1960, is still allowed to operate. The department lines were drawn largely in the horse drawn hose carrier days and persist today.

I give nothing but kudos to the great volunteers both fire and ems.But folks, it is time to re evaluate.

[RES24CUE 168]

The problem that presents itself is a paradox. Not enough fires per square mile to justify full-time, paid fire departments (and the costs of benefits, retirement, etc.)...but not so few fires that we can just count our losses and ignore the problem entirely. Your typical volunteer crew of 5 guys (or gals), 2 or 3 who have a bit of experience and a level head on their shoulders can typically handle your run-of-the-mill calls for food on the stove, a residential lock-out, or a car into the ditch. But when there is a fire every 2-3 years and that crew of 3 or 5 guys simply will not suffice. They do the best that they can and either one guy makes a good call and puts the line in the right place to make a stop...or, they chase the fire from window to window around the house until it eventually goes out (we have all seen it). Either way, the fires happen so infrequently that the public doesn't even realize that there is a problem. There were 5 fires in my town (with 3 independent departments) in 2013-2014 and all 5 of the buildings (one of which was one of the firehouse) were heavily damaged if not completely destroyed by fire.

I think there is a serious problem with the volunteer fire service (at least in my area). The chiefs, officers, and members of the fire departments are hiding their manpower shortages in an effort to protect their department's longstanding tradition. They are afraid that, if the public knows how bad things really are, then they will be uprooted from their firehouses and replaced with paid firemen. The chief will lose his spot as chief (along with his power and his car), the men will lose their "clubhouse," and the longstanding tradition of the department that they enjoy so much will be a thing of the past. They will have, in their eyes, failed as a department...

I read a lot of articles about manpower shortages or interviews with chiefs where they consistently say things like "we can always use more volunteers and manpower is low at present but we continue to respond to every alarm." To me, this means that the chief goes to every alarm and one or two guys to the firehouse during the day to get a utility or mini-attack out the door. I know of many fire departments around that "respond to every alarm" where the chiefs all sign on, then go to the firehouse, get a rig, sign that rig on as well, and they have 5 units on the road but only have 3 people (Shhhh...it's a secret!). Again, the chief is cloaking the manpower problem by saying that they never miss a response. And, to the county it looks like they have stellar responses when in fact they don't.

Another way that departments hide their manpower shortages is by saying that they have "50 members on the roster" when, in reality, only 3-5 are very active. If you look at the websites of some of these departments under the "members" section they have tremendous lists of firefighters; but half of these people haven't been seen in more than 5 years. On the department's website for my town (of which I was previously a member) there are a few people listed as members who are dead (NOT EVEN KIDDING!). So when the town supervisor or a concerned citizen looks at the website and see all those names they think everything is great, when, in reality, it is just a facade.

Lastly, I always hear chiefs in the paper saying "we averaged 15 people per alarm last year (month, week, etc.)". How many of those people are qualified interior firefighters? I know that when I was a member, the Chief would tell the fire district every month that the department "averaged 12 members per call the previous month." 4 of the 12 were fire police in their '80s who came to every call; 3-4 of the 12 were junior members; and the rest were the chiefs and a few stragglers per call. Again, this "average" number is an illusion to hide the fact that departments these days just don't cut it.

I think fire chiefs and fire departments are coming up with inventive ways to hide manpower shortages because the solution to the problem is not desirable to them. They are stalling because they think things will get better on their own (I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say "manpower comes in waves") where, in reality, you might get a good year or two with the addition of a few good members but the fact of the matter is that manpower has been on a steady decline for years. The real solution to the problem is going to eventually be the addition of a few paid chauffeurs to get the trucks out during the day, then eventually going to full-time staffing during the day. Then the volunteers can take over at night when there are more guys around who come home from work. But, the longer the volunteer leadership can hold off the better because they get to hold on to their little men's club and the pride of 100 years of service by their organization. They don't want the intrusion of paid firefighters in their space, they don't want paid vs. volunteer battles, they don't want union issues, and they don't want to be thrown out. Firefighting is fun and those of us who love it really enjoy doing what we do. If they bring in career firefighters, the volunteers won't get to do what they love to do anymore, be firemen. So they have to hide it to hold on to their job. Hopefully, no one will have to lose their life to evince change like we see everywhere else on this job!

[Bnechis 3,961]

The problem that presents itself is a paradox.........The real solution to the problem is going to eventually be the addition of a few paid chauffeurs to get the trucks out during the day, then eventually going to full-time staffing during the day. Then the volunteers can take over at night when there are more guys around who come home from work.

Your entire post was Spot on, with one exception, the sentence above.

Paid chauffeurs also hide the problem. Wow look how fast the FD got on scene but still no one to take care of the problem. And as you said full time staffing is not financially viable based on the call volume. And many of these VFD's are doing no better at night.

When their are 2, 3 , 4 departments in town.....consolidate. then not everyone is trying to staff 2 engines and a truck and rescue. Then if needed add a paid company to handle all the BS that is a problem. Then and only then if you need to go fully paid, you can do it with fewer rigs covering a larger area and it becomes cost effective.

[RES24CUE 168]

Your entire post was Spot on, with one exception, the sentence above.

Paid chauffeurs also hide the problem. Wow look how fast the FD got on scene but still no one to take care of the problem. And as you said full time staffing is not financially viable based on the call volume. And many of these VFD's are doing no better at night.

When their are 2, 3 , 4 departments in town.....consolidate. then not everyone is trying to staff 2 engines and a truck and rescue. Then if needed add a paid company to handle all the BS that is a problem. Then and only then if you need to go fully paid, you can do it with fewer rigs covering a larger area and it becomes cost effective.

I just want to clarify (I'm not arguing with you as I agree 100% with what you said, just realized that I didn't explain where I was coming from with the paid-chauffeur comment)...I was not promoting the addition of a paid chauffeur. I think that this is a natural in-between step (wrong or right) in the transition process. I was a member of a fire company in SE Connecticut when I was in college that had paid chauffeurs on during the day (M-F 7a-5p). What has happened since? It evolved into a paid Chauffeur and an officer. Then became a paid chauffeur, an officer, and a firefighter. AND they added a late shift (2 Shifts, 7-3 & 3-11) Now they are on the verge of being a paid department. I think the chauffeur is the first step in the evolutionary process. The departments hire a "custodian" or a "building manager" to help out during the day but just so happens to be a FF/EMT and have a CDL (I know you don't need one in NY, just making the point that he's a truck driver). This business is slow to change and must improvement will come slowly. These places aren't going to change from volunteer to paid overnight like the flip of a light switch...especially not with the inertia that will be created by the past volunteers who "have been serving selflessly for over 100 years." Unfortunately, their selfless devotion just doesn't cut it anymore.

[FFPCogs 863]

Back to what's wrong with the site, there are lots of good criticisms and ideas to make things better, but we are just talking amongst ourselves and none of the ideas ever seems to get to someone who can effect change.

Well as I see it, that "someone who can effect change" is us. Talking is great and can be a useful exercise in spreading ideas, but when there's talking and no action it is nothing more than a exercise in futility and a hell of alot of wasted hot air. I often see posted here many views on who is responsible for our inability to progress, but what I rarely see is anyone pointing to themselves as the reason...it's the politicians, or the vollies, or the unions, in other words it's always someone else's fault. What we often neglect to even acknowledge is our own part in this situation. There's an old saying..."when you point your finger at someone else, there's always three fingers pointing back at you" (and if you don't believe it, try it). We, all of us, are creatures of the cultures which we are a part of. We accept that things are the way they are because it is "our way" or worse, we fear sticking our necks out lest our head gets lopped off and we become ostracized or "unpopular". The fact is the changes that need to happen take a level of courage, fortitude and steely determination to see them through that most lack, including me ...it is just too damn hard. So what then can we do?

Well for starters we can admit that we are the problem and not "them". We are our departments and if we are not where we should be, or if we are putting ourselves above those we serve, that is OUR fault, not someone else's. Paid or volunteer it doesn't matter, we are responsible for our actions or lack thereof and for the directions our departments take. Now some may chime in with the "I'm not in charge, so what can I do" argument and to be fair there is a level of truth to that, up to a point. But there is also the flip side which says that if you believe in something fight for it, stand tall while doing so and work to bring others around to your point of view. The truth is always the truth no matter how distasteful it may be and acknowledging that truth and accepting that we have to act on it is the only way change of the magnitude we're talking about here will ever happen.

Bottom line here...if you want changes then start doing something to make them happen.

I will share this for what it's worth. As many of you know there is a small but vocal group in Stamford that has some pretty strong views and ideas on how we can "fix" our FD problems. For the last six years this group has stood and offered up these "solutions" only to be beat down, ridiculed and told "that will never happen" from all "sides". Well with a good dose of perseverance and a steadfast adherence to the principle that we are here to serve...not to be served, we have started to see some small but significant changes start to make themselves known. Maybe the most important and in the long term, far reaching, of these is the new cooperative effort we have begun to recruit and train all of our new volunteer personnel collectively. Now for many this may seem a no brainer, but for Stamford this has been a huge leap forward and one many said could not and would not ever happen. The point is this didn't happen because some of us put our tails between our legs or put our heads in the sand, it happened because we stood firm in our convictions and weathered the constant barrage of negativity and personal vitriol heaped upon us. I don't know if we'll succeed in "saving" my beloved volunteers here, but I do know that we've made history and provided the best chance of doing so and we've done it for no other reason than it is the right thing to do.

Edited February 3, 2015 by FFPCogs