Goshen may need to pay for fire service

[BFD1054 1,552]

Goshen (Orange County) -

Al Turi, chair of the board of commissioners for the Goshen Fire District, said that with membership dwindling from 195 firefighters to about 100, the district may have to hire drivers to get trucks and equipment to fires.

Link to Chronicle Newspaper;

http://www.chroniclenewspaper.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20141210%2FNEWS01%2F141219984%2F-1%2Fenewsletter%2FGoshen-may-need-to-pay-for-fire-service

Edited December 13, 2014 by BFD1054

[EMT111 149]

Unfortunately not surprising with today's drop in the rate of volunteering, I know of one department in the same area that doesn't even have enough total certified drivers for all their apparatus. Two questions though, did they ever have 195 members, or is that what their state maximum is and they're only at half. Secondly, why is the state limiting how many members a fire company/fire department can have?

[SteveC7010 58]

A lot of inconsistencies in the article, and then the comments open up a bunch of info that was not presented in the article.

Two fire houses within a quarter mile of each other? Hmmmm!

[BFD1054 1,552]

1) This was the first I heard of this and am curious to hear more.

2) If they realized they have shortcomings in terms of membership and are pro-actively trying to fix that, I applaud them.

3) Personally, I feel that hiring "drivers" is just plain wrong. That just creates smoke and mirrors and unsafe operating practices IMO.

Think it's time to hire career staff? Do it the right way.

Better yet, look into consolidation/splitting costs for career staffing. Crazy I know, silly me.

Edited December 13, 2014 by BFD1054

[38ff 250]

I have never heard or read of a law that caps the # of voluneteers. Anyone have more info on that?

[Bnechis 3,961]

I have never heard or read of a law that caps the # of voluneteers. Anyone have more info on that?

There is no "law" on this. It was very common to have Dept. Bylaws that had a maximum number and in the 50's - 70's it ment that many depts. had waiting lists to get in and it was often used to keep out people who were no "connected".

[Bnechis 3,961]

Two fire houses within a quarter mile of each other? Hmmmm!

This was very common in the late 1800's and early 1900's and still exists today in many older communities. Most houses held a single company with only a steamer and a hose cart. Today we tend to build large multi company stations.

[SteveC7010 58]

There is no "law" on this. It was very common to have Dept. Bylaws that had a maximum number and in the 50's - 70's it ment that many depts. had waiting lists to get in and it was often used to keep out people who were no "connected".

I think you are correct on this. I have never heard of such a law here in NYS, but, as you say, many departments have self imposed maximum memberships. I belonged to a unit like that early in my career. I also did some googling on the topic and came up emptyhanded.

Presuming that there is no state law on the subject, that begs the question of how the newspaper article ended up reporting that the Commissioner told the Town Board that there is a state limit. Did the reporter misunderstand or ignore a more accurate statement? Or did the Commissioner give inaccurate info to the Town Board?

Given one glaring inaccuracy, I wonder how much of the rest of the article is reliable?

[38ff 250]

I agree, company bylaws and state laws are 2 very different things.

The one line I particularly like is about the cylinders/hydro testing and DOT 15 year expiration. I know what they are trying to say because I am familiar with it, but it isn't explained well at all But the average reader may think SCBA bottles cost $50-100.....

[AndyC3J 190]

A lot of inconsistencies in the article, and then the comments open up a bunch of info that was not presented in the article.

Two fire houses within a quarter mile of each other? Hmmmm!

All three of Goshen's stations used to be within walking distance of each other until the Dikemans built their current house outside the village.

[gamewell45 258]

As long as the taxpayers don't mind paying for the service, there should be no issue.

[PC_420 28]

I'm trying to understand... $8,000 for personal protective equipment? I was gear officer for the previous 3 years... It never was more than $3,000... Is their gear made of gold?

And when did gear start going out of service at 7 years (even if it's not used lol)? I believe the NFPA guideline was 10? And that can be put aside if they test the gear once a year.

A large amount of inaccuracies I'm seeing in this article

[Bnechis 3,961]

I'm trying to understand... $8,000 for personal protective equipment? I was gear officer for the previous 3 years... It never was more than $3,000... Is their gear made of gold?

$3,000 for tune outs + $5,400 for SCBA = $8,400

[velcroMedic1987 330]

$3,000 for tune outs + $5,400 for SCBA = $8,400

Then it isn't 8400 per FF. It's 3000 per FF and 5400 x the number of FF who actually show up and are interior qualified. Substantially less than the total number I'm sure.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Then it isn't 8400 per FF. It's 3000 per FF and 5400 x the number of FF who actually show up and are interior qualified. Substantially less than the total number I'm sure.

Agreed, I was just explaining how they got to that number.

And maybe they have a pack for every interior member...

[tglass59 27]

When is Goshen giving a civil service exam to hire firefighters??????

Edited December 15, 2014 by tglass59

[v85 212]

According to their website Goshen averages 725 calls a year, or 1.9 calls a day. How much paid staff are would be able to be justified with that call volume

[Bnechis 3,961]

According to their website Goshen averages 725 calls a year, or 1.9 calls a day. How much paid staff are would be able to be justified with that call volume

Its not based on call volume. Its based on can they cover the calls period. And ISO does not look at the number of calls, just the average number of responders on a response. And the count 1 career guy as equal to 3 volunteers

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Where can I get those firefighter "slides" they talk about.

[v85 212]

ISO might not care about number of calls but the problem is that the taxpayers do. Whether that is right or wrong of them to care they do care. And if taxpayers think that the career firefighters are going to " sit around and do nothing " they will vote the budget down

They don't know about training, drills, inspections, preplanning and everything else a FF does.

[Bnechis 3,961]

ISO might not care about number of calls but the problem is that the taxpayers do. Whether that is right or wrong of them to care they do care. And if taxpayers think that the career firefighters are going to " sit around and do nothing " they will vote the budget down

They don't know about training, drills, inspections, preplanning and everything else a FF does.

Agreed and that is why it is critical to educate the public, that your ISO rating determines how much money your fire insurance will cost.

A few years ago we determined that if we gave 100%of the dept budget back to the tax payers and got rid of the FD, their insurance would go up at least 3x more than was returned to them.