Privacy When Dispatching EMS Calls

[Flashpoint 94]

When you dispatch an EMS call and specify the age, sex, and condition of the patient, and the last name of the residence on the radio all in the same transmission, couldn't that be considered violating the patient's privacy?

Edited December 10, 2014 by Flashpoint

[PoqFFEMT 6]

Here is worse yet... Facebook!!!! This screenshot (names anonymized), came right on the heels of a call I ran the other day. Folks in the town I live love to consider it a "small town" and want to know EVERYTHING going on. Many have scanners and love to gossip. This one is particularly bad because a lot posted the persons involved name(s)

Wilma Mumduya

December 7 at 7:03pm

Ambulance and fire trucks just raced down Messick. I hope everyone is ok!!

Like ·

• Terry Torial and 9 others like this.
• Bart Ender I heard them..I hope everyone's ok!!

  December 7 at 7:05pm · Like · Reply · 1
• Holland Oats I can't believe how many sirens I heard.... did they call in York Co too?

  December 7 at 7:06pm · Like · Reply
• Clara Fication I didn't see ...By the time I looked out the window they were already passing.

  December 7 at 7:07pm · Like · Reply · 1
• Clara Fication Bart Ender , you are closer than I am...can you see anything?

  December 7 at 7:09pm · Like · Reply
• Mary Nara I seen 4 cops, the fire chief, and a fire truck go by. Hope all is well.

  December 7 at 7:10pm · Like · Reply · 1
• Minnie Strone Somebody ran off the road next to our house. He is banged up but okay

  December 7 at 7:10pm · Like · Reply · 10
• Clara Fication Thanks for the update ! Glad he is ok!

  December 7 at 7:10pm · Like · Reply · 4
• Bart Ender Im on Lodge Road..I just heard them screaming by..

  December 7 at 7:10pm · Like · Reply
• Mary Nara Glad he was not hurt.

  December 7 at 7:11pm · Like · Reply
• Minnie Strone They took him to the hospital to be checked out.

  December 7 at 7:12pm · Like · Reply · 1
• Bart Ender Definitely glad he is okay..any idea who it was? Everytime I hear sirens down the road my heart skips a beat because alot of my family lives down that way!

  December 7 at 7:13pm · Like · Reply · 4
• Minnie Strone Scott

  December 7 at 7:13pm · Like · Reply
• Marion Gaze I am glad your house is okay Minnie

  December 7 at 7:15pm · Like · Reply · 2
• Bart Ender Scott Bloxom???

  December 7 at 7:15pm · Like · Reply
• Aaron Ottix .

  December 7 at 7:15pm · Like · Reply
• Gene Poole .

  December 7 at 7:16pm · Like · Reply
• Deb Utant Scott ?

  December 7 at 7:16pm · Like · Reply
• Minnie Strone No he lives by BIB

  December 7 at 7:16pm · Like · Reply
• Mary Nara Thanks Minnie. My heart also skipped a beat.

  December 7 at 7:16pm · Like · Reply · 1
• Barney Cull .

  December 7 at 7:17pm · Like · Reply
• Bart Ender Oh ok..thanks for the update. Hopefully he will be alright...

  December 7 at 7:18pm · Like · Reply
• Minnie Strone Hope so too!

  December 7 at 7:19pm · Like · Reply
• Mary Nara Are you sure he was just banged up? Seen them going up the road code 3. Meaning getting to the hospital is crucial.

  December 7 at 7:31pm · Like · Reply · 1
• Mary Nara Followed by a cop car code 1. Hope you does not get arrested.

  December 7 at 7:34pm · Like · Reply
• Minnie Strone He was walking around Sal. They put a neck brace on him just in case. He fell out of his truck plowed over our mailbox on pilings and the truck ended up next door hitting Richard's riding mower.

  December 7 at 7:34pm · Like · Reply
• Will Power Went down Messick... Cops were also called.

  December 7 at 7:35pm · Like · Reply
• Mary Nara Wow. He must have been flying. Thanks Lori. Praying!

  December 7 at 7:37pm · Like · Reply · 1
• Paul Molive I agree Sal, he musta been moving something fierce. There's no curve in the road there, so what was the causative factor, as they say??

  December 7 at 8:08pm · Like · Reply
• Mary Nara There is a small curve. Nothing someone sober or not speeding could not handle though. I feel bad about the property damage he caused. Just sad all around.

  December 7 at 8:13pm · Like · Reply · 1
• Paul Molive Guess I didn't notice the curve. I was down there just as the units were leaving trying to get some pics of the moon. No way to start Christmas for anyone involved!!

  December 7 at 8:17pm · Like · Reply
• Sal Monella Just hoping everyone is okay. .everything else can be fixed!

  December 7 at 8:18pm · Like · Reply · 5
• Ray Volver So true Sal. Things can be replaced. That is the main thing. Sorry. Was just thinking if he hit my mustang I would be upset. That was selfish of me.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Private citizens are in no way obligated to protect patient information. Welcome to the digital age of nosy neighbors.

I never understood putting the last name of the residence in a transmission. But the rest of that information is mission critical, is it not? I'm no lawyer, but it would be hard to argue privacy violations there. If someone really has a problem with that information being put over the air, then I suggest they call a taxi to take them to the hospital...

[antiquefirelt 994]

When you dispatch an EMS call and specify the age, sex, and condition of the patient, and the last name of the residence on the radio all in the same transmission, couldn't that be considered violating the patient's privacy?

In the past these things were necessary to getting the ambulance and crew to the scene in a timely manner. The name was all but eliminated when proper 911 mapping and addressing was completed, but once in a while in the hinterlands they still use names for reference points. Until recently most fire and EMS agencies didn't have MDT's and handheld communications devices that were silent. So a case may be made, though again it speaks to the systems the caller is accessing ad their ability to put the patient and help together.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Until recently most fire and EMS agencies didn't have MDT's and handheld communications devices that were silent.

Westchester County. The most taxed county in the United States only has MDT's in a handful of the 300-400 fire and EMS rigs. Because when it was last suggested, the Advisory boards said it was not needed.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Westchester County. The most taxed county in the United States only has MDT's in a handful of the 300-400 fire and EMS rigs. Because when it was last suggested, the Advisory boards said it was not needed.

We don't have any in the municipal fire or EMS units, just the local PD's and private EMS services. That said, the local dispatch center utilizing the I Am Responding system to text calls as an adjunct tool and more sensitive info is typically directed through this or units are asked to call in. We're now looking at tablets for use in a pseudo-MDT manner.

[sympathomedic 383]

Not just the hinterlands. Many apartment buildings have a door buzzer system to get in that requires a last name to get the apartment on the intercom and get the door opened.

[SOUSGT 357]

Not just the hinterlands. Many apartment buildings have a door buzzer system to get in that requires a last name to get the apartment on the intercom and get the door opened.

Just press them all and muffle your voice. Haven't you learned that trick yet?

[AFS1970 504]

The residence name is sometimes important, although has become less so as street addresses get better.

In the days before every house needed a street address you might have members that know exactly where "Sam Smith's Barn" is or the "Jenkins House" on "Old Route 10". Much of this is a thing of the past although we still have one district in Stamford where addresses like that may still mean something to some members.

[Dinosaur 844]

When you dispatch an EMS call and specify the age, sex, and condition of the patient, and the last name of the residence on the radio all in the same transmission, couldn't that be considered violating the patient's privacy?

Dispatchers are only providing the information received from the calling party. Very often it is not an accurate representation of the patient's condition.

As for the name of home or property owner, that may not identify the patient.

I'm not sure there would be any expectation of privacy under these circumstances nor can I imagine why it would become an issue.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Not just the hinterlands. Many apartment buildings have a door buzzer system to get in that requires a last name to get the apartment on the intercom and get the door opened.

Easy way for the FD to solve this. We advised buildings when they went to this that the 1st call we get there was going to be expensive if they did not install a Knox Box.

Then the 1st call you use Battalion Chief Halligan's key and you are in. The next day the building owner either:

a) orders a knox box or

calls the FD to complain and is told: "See a above"

If they pick "b" we repeat the process.

No building has repeated this a 3rd time.

Just press them all and muffle your voice. Haven't you learned that trick yet?

That no longer works on many of the new systems. There is a 6 or 7 digit "code" for each apt. or you have to scroll to each name press and wait, before you can select another name. In a big building that could take 10+ minutes.

[Remember585 815]

Where can one find information - HIPAA, for example, about disseminating information either on the air or online / in the paper? This is something that has come up at work and at the firehouse at home. Thanks.

[v85 212]

www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/administrative/privacyrule

By the way, radio communications are specifically exempt from HIPAA

[SOUSGT 357]

Easy way for the FD to solve this. We advised buildings when they went to this that the 1st call we get there was going to be expensive if they did not install a Knox Box.

Then the 1st call you use Battalion Chief Halligan's key and you are in. The next day the building owner either:

a) orders a knox box or

calls the FD to complain and is told: "See a above"

If they pick "b" we repeat the process.

No building has repeated this a 3rd time.

That no longer works on many of the new systems. There is a 6 or 7 digit "code" for each apt. or you have to scroll to each name press and wait, before you can select another name. In a big building that could take 10+ minutes.

Not to go off topic but there are two basic types of intercom systems:

Analog: where you have 1 button for each apartment. This is the one where you can press all the buttons in a downward sliding button and someone will usually open the door (old PD trick).

The system you reference is a telephone entry system, This requires a code and when entered, uses a preprogrammed number to contact the tenants’ phone. Often you will find a code to call 911, the police or fire departments in the directory. If you enter that code and the system calls 911, when the operator answers, have them dial 9. That is the most often code used to open the door.

If not then the master key (halligan) may have to be used.

[Remember585 815]

www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/administrative/privacyrule

By the way, radio communications are specifically exempt from HIPAA

Does this mean any of us over the air can give names and/or other personal info, such as phone numbers?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Does this mean any of us over the air can give names and/or other personal info, such as phone numbers?

Under HIPAA its not an issue, but as a general "safety" issue it may cause problems

[velcroMedic1987 330]

Does this mean any of us over the air can give names and/or other personal info, such as phone numbers?

I don't know why you'd have to give a phone number over the air.

[antiquefirelt 994]

I don't know why you'd have to give a phone number over the air.

Haven't heard that, but I have heard key information (it's hidden under the mat) or other security measures broadcast in an age when we have so many other options. At some point while it may not be part of HIPAA, the privacy of any individual will likely be cause for civil suit given that there are so many reliable options to minimize public broadcasting of information.

[10512 214]

Just press them all and muffle your voice. Haven't you learned that trick yet?

Sometimes, when we did not have the exact apartment to ring, or did not want the occupants of a specific apartment knowing we were coming, I would ring them all and if someone asked "who is it?", sometimes I would answer "Burglar" or "Robber". Almost every time, someone would buzz us in.

Quite often, the residents would buzz us in without asking anything.

This even occurred in my plainclothes days and sometimes we were driving rental cars or non-descript vehicles. It was not as if someone heard a buzzer, looked outside, saw uniformed cops and a marked Crown Vic and figured it was OK to let them in.

I have seen this even in some of the better buildings in some of the more upscale areas.

Gaining entry to an apartment building is usually not one of the harder things to accomplish.

Edited December 15, 2014 by 10512

[Reliance 29]

In Nova Scotia the EHS NS dispatch centre sends the information directly to a Panasonic tablet in the Ambulance. The only info sent over the air is the initial call identifying the ambulance and the address they are going to.

[Piranha174 37]

Westchester County. The most taxed county in the United States only has MDT's in a handful of the 300-400 fire and EMS rigs. Because when it was last suggested, the Advisory boards said it was not needed.

Why would Westchester County be responsible for providing MDT'S to individual departments? If a department requires an MDT, and the associated data plan, they should purchase one.