Training Standards in Westchester Both Career and Volunteer

[fdny41 11]

What are your Fire Departments training standards for Interior Status, Officers, and Chiefs?

In Long Island there are only two Career Departments, this had me wondering, do Volunteer Companies and Career Departments ever operate at incidents or train together?

[Dinosaur 844]

http://www.dhses.ny.gov/ofpc/documents/standards/part426lawbook.pdf

[Bnechis 3,961]

http://www.dhses.ny.gov/ofpc/documents/standards/part426lawbook.pdf

While that's the MINIMUM legal requirement in NYS for career, for the last 28 years we have exceeded that by 2 1/2 times and now 3 times

[Bnechis 3,961]

What are your Fire Departments training standards for Interior Status, Officers, and Chiefs?

In Long Island there are only two Career Departments, this had me wondering, do Volunteer Companies and Career Departments ever operate at incidents or train together?

Career depts. do not have an "interior status" all firefighters are "interior".

All career officers by law must attend 160 hours of 1st line supervisors training (after competitive testing for the promotion).

Their is no requirement in NYS for Chiefs

[dave0820 50]

Career depts. do not have an "interior status" all firefighters are "interior".

All career officers by law must attend 160 hours of 1st line supervisors training (after competitive testing for the promotion).

Their is no requirement in NYS for Chiefs

So anyone can be a chief in NY?

[Bnechis 3,961]

So anyone can be a chief in NY?

On the career side their are civil service requirements, that on a local level may include training &/or education.

But their is no state requirements to be a fire chief (beyond 1st line supervisor for career officers)

[Bottom of Da Hill 76]

its all paid VS volunteer BS.who.s joken who ? its all BS.

[ex-commish 490]

its all paid VS volunteer BS.who.s joken who ? its all BS.

What is B.S.? That someone asked about standards?

[fdny41 11]

Listen I am not trying to start any conflict between Career Vs. Volunteer. I only ask because I am from Long Island where Volunteers make up the majority of the departments. I was just curious about working relationships and Standards.

Has there every been a time in which a Volunteer company has assisted a Career Company and vice versa?

[Piranha174 37]

its all paid VS volunteer BS.who.s joken who ? its all BS.[/quote

One thing is for sure; Grammer is not a requirement in the Tarrytown VFD.

[Bottom of Da Hill 76]

Listen I am not trying to start any conflict between Career Vs. Volunteer. I only ask because I am from Long Island where Volunteers make up the majority of the departments. I was just curious about working relationships and Standards.

Has there every been a time in which a Volunteer company has assisted a Career Company and vice versa?

just in westchester county.

[Bottom of Da Hill 76]

its all paid VS volunteer BS.who.s joken who ? its all BS.[/quote

One thing is for sure; Grammer is not a requirement in the Tarrytown VFD.

LOL

[E106MKFD 56]

Listen I am not trying to start any conflict between Career Vs. Volunteer. I only ask because I am from Long Island where Volunteers make up the majority of the departments. I was just curious about working relationships and Standards.

Has there every been a time in which a Volunteer company has assisted a Career Company and vice versa?

Of course, there have been occasions for career and volunteer joint operations in Westchester. Last month the City of White Plains FD worked mutual aid with North White Plains FD and other first responder agencies (both paid and volley) in a rope rescue in a remote area of a park. I have heard of a few instances where Volleys covered a paid jurisdiction or assisted on a scene but it is not a regular operation in Westchester. Some areas like Elmsford work with paid companies more often and we have plenty of combo departments as well.

I believe you are aiming at the question, do departments expect certain standards/training credentials from a Volley or Paid dept when providing mutual aid or on a dual response? I am not sure if there are any specific mutual aid agreements or MOU's between any paid and volley agencies in Westchester but volleys follow the FFI, II standards whereas the paid departments have the career training classes (as Barry mentioned).

When I volleyed upstate NY there were times our agency provided services to a fully paid department and they expected a staffed engine with 6 interior qualified members. Standard wise that was as close as it got.

[BFD1054 1,552]

just in westchester county.

Are you insinuating that career FFs only work with Vol FFs in Westchester? Or just the opposite?

Either way, your response is vague and quite misleading.

As much as I read guys crying that the career guys bash the Vollies, it seems as though there are plenty of pot stirrers on the volunteer side as well.

I am unfortunately not surprised....

Edited December 9, 2014 by BFD1054

[goon16 155]

Down in the city of New Brunswick nj where Rutgers is. They are a paid dept and their first call is station 27 east franklin volunteer fire department which is in somerset county and boarders them. They have a wonderful relationship with one another and work very well together with no problems

[dwcfireman 656]

its all paid VS volunteer BS.who.s joken who ? its all BS.

Here's the BS of the problem....volunteer FF's tend to have significantly less training than our career counter parts. There are many reasons why we don't, such as a lack of time because most of us have full time jobs that require us to show up to earn a salary, or families that we can't leave behind over small incidents that otherwise wouldn't affect the most of us. It's a long list, but I don't have the time to waste to list you all the reasons. The matter of the fact is that vollies don't get enough training, for every reason. I would love to take more classes and be "Superman," but I realize that I have far more important things to do, like work!

In a perfect world we would all be trained to the same level. Unfortunately, it's not possible and never will be. The scheme of life just doesn't allow it, but it will always allow that rift between vollie and career FF's.

Now, I'm going to say something really mean, Bottom of Da Hill, and you're going to have to suck it up and take it like a man...You need to stop acting like you're tough sh!t. You're not. The brotherhood of the fire service is a tight knit community, and it's a small world. You just can't go around bashing every body. I speak from experience. I used to shoot my mouth off, too. But, I learned. Now it's your turn.

What are your Fire Departments training standards for Interior Status, Officers, and Chiefs?

Alright, back to the original post......I'm guessing you're looking for answers from the volunteer side?? This is a tough question, mainly because every department has their own rules and regulations about the issue. Heck, some departments DON"T have rules or training standards (I unfortunately know of some). Looking at it from a broad stand point, most volunteer departments say FF1 is the basis to become interior, and Fire Officer 1 is needed for company officers. I'm not going to quote my department's policies because I can't find the binder with the by-laws and SOP's, but I can guarantee you that specific classes are required and some point throughout your tenure (I will elaborate once I find the binder lol).

Keep in mind that OFPC and NFPA have their suggestions/requirements, and most of that information is locatable through their respective websites and the wonderful world of Google. Your department may even have copies of the appropriate documents to read through, and your current officers should know where they are located in your fire house.

I do like your question, and I will start looking for more information to help you come to an answer that you're looking for. PM me if I forget to repost.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

its all paid VS volunteer BS.who.s joken who ? its all BS.[/quote

One thing is for sure; Grammer is not a requirement in the Tarrytown VFD.

Nor is spelling apparently.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Down in the city of New Brunswick nj where Rutgers is. They are a paid dept and their first call is station 27 east franklin volunteer fire department which is in somerset county and boarders them. They have a wonderful relationship with one another and work very well together with no problems

From what I can tell, East Franklin is pretty close to setting the bar for volunteer training. We were fortunate enough to have spent a few hours with the Chief there about a year after Kevin Appuzio's LODD. As I recall they had a very strict schedule for their volunteers with mandatory "duty" time and minimum training done on each duty shift. I'm not sure what the base level training was, but by all appearances they were setting the ongoing training bar very high as compared to most VFD's I've been exposed to, and some career jobs.

[Bottom of Da Hill 76]

Here's the BS of the problem....volunteer FF's tend to have significantly less training than our career counter parts. There are many reasons why we don't, such as a lack of time because most of us have full time jobs that require us to show up to earn a salary, or families that we can't leave behind over small incidents that otherwise wouldn't affect the most of us. It's a long list, but I don't have the time to waste to list you all the reasons. The matter of the fact is that vollies don't get enough training, for every reason. I would love to take more classes and be "Superman," but I realize that I have far more important things to do, like work!

In a perfect world we would all be trained to the same level. Unfortunately, it's not possible and never will be. The scheme of life just doesn't allow it, but it will always allow that rift between vollie and career FF's.

Now, I'm going to say something really mean, Bottom of Da Hill, and you're going to have to suck it up and take it like a man...You need to stop acting like you're tough sh!t. You're not. The brotherhood of the fire service is a tight knit community, and it's a small world. You just can't go around bashing every body. I speak from experience. I used to shoot my mouth off, too. But, I learned. Now it's your turn.

Alright, back to the original post......I'm guessing you're looking for answers from the volunteer side?? This is a tough question, mainly because every department has their own rules and regulations about the issue. Heck, some departments DON"T have rules or training standards (I unfortunately know of some). Looking at it from a broad stand point, most volunteer departments say FF1 is the basis to become interior, and Fire Officer 1 is needed for company officers. I'm not going to quote my department's policies because I can't find the binder with the by-laws and SOP's, but I can guarantee you that specific classes are required and some point throughout your tenure (I will elaborate once I find the binder lol).

Keep in mind that OFPC and NFPA have their suggestions/requirements, and most of that information is locatable through their respective websites and the wonderful world of Google. Your department may even have copies of the appropriate documents to read through, and your current officers should know where they are located in your fire house.

I do like your question, and I will start looking for more information to help you come to an answer that you're looking for. PM me if I forget to repost.

who did i bash? just my thoughts and never said i was a tough guy.but tired off the key board FF.s on this site that do bash volunteer or paid just to stir the BS abt training we in the fire service know what needs to be done times change and so doe.s training.but here in westchester its always the worst you dont have this in rockland or long island?in westchester its always paid VS volunteer and we all know it.they use this site to stir the pot the volunteers and paid we all have jobs to do..attack me all you want i have ben doing both for a long time.

[Bottom of Da Hill 76]

Nor is spelling apparently.

HAHAHAHA.

[firecapt32 282]

let me weigh in on this- I have been quiet too long. NYS OFPC has set the standard--let me explain-- FF1-FF2-survival-FAST-RES tec-Eng Co operations-truck co ops-haz mat the list goes on. add them up and guess what you come up with the career standard or close enough. give or take a few hours. so the career firefighters get all of this at one shot we call it probie school or Career Academy or what ever name you want to give it. On the other side OFPC has divided all the classes into separate training modules. so it is possible and is being done by firefighters all over NYS just in a different manner.

So the Training is out there just in different formats.

Now for the quid pro quo--is spelling and grammar correct??

OFPC has left it to--"AHJ" authority having jurisdiction---gotta love spell check to establish the standards for individual fire departments.

The State legislature has established the Standard for fire departments with more then five personnel. that would be the 229 hour standard we have in NYS.

So the Career department are mandated by State Legislature and the other departments aren't-with the exception of OSHA and haz mat.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday season and above all be safe out there.

[kinkchaser 352]

Sadly there are now requirements to be a Chief in most of NYS but be comforted to know to be a licensed barber you need 1020 hours not mention the beauticians license and their training.

So you might be safer in a barber shop or beauty salon, then with the incident commander

[Dinosaur 844]

let me weigh in on this- I have been quiet too long. NYS OFPC has set the standard--let me explain-- FF1-FF2-survival-FAST-RES tec-Eng Co operations-truck co ops-haz mat the list goes on. add them up and guess what you come up with the career standard or close enough. give or take a few hours. so the career firefighters get all of this at one shot we call it probie school or Career Academy or what ever name you want to give it. On the other side OFPC has divided all the classes into separate training modules. so it is possible and is being done by firefighters all over NYS just in a different manner.

So the Training is out there just in different formats.

Now for the quid pro quo--is spelling and grammar correct??

OFPC has left it to--"AHJ" authority having jurisdiction---gotta love spell check to establish the standards for individual fire departments.

The State legislature has established the Standard for fire departments with more then five personnel. that would be the 229 hour standard we have in NYS.

So the Career department are mandated by State Legislature and the other departments aren't-with the exception of OSHA and haz mat.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday season and above all be safe out there.

The training is out there but only one segment of the target population is required, by statute, to take it. I think it's discrimination and career firefighters should sue for being forced to take the training!

[Bnechis 3,961]

Sadly there are now requirements to be a Chief in most of NYS but be comforted to know to be a licensed barber you need 1020 hours not mention the beauticians license and their training.

So you might be safer in a barber shop or beauty salon, then with the incident commander

Knowing this, at least we know that the incident commander will look marvelous!

[Bnechis 3,961]

The training is out there but only one segment of the target population is required, by statute, to take it. I think it's discrimination and career firefighters should sue for being forced to take the training!

The unions fought very hard to get the 229 hour requirement and FASNY fought equally hard to have no requirements and that's why we are debating it here.

And we continue to push and that's why its now 600 plus hours.

[kinkchaser 352]

On the career side we have the mandated 229 hour training, which more is added to it. then the mandated First Line Officers Program hosted by FDNY, which is also mandated by NYS Law. Then with the most important rank it stops dead and their is no Chiefs Training set up similar to the First Line Program. Some may argue for on-line programs but it is not the same.

This something the OFPC should be exploring, way over due.

[SECTMB 612]

Reading the incident reports it is apparent up in Orange County that Newburgh, West Point and Stewart AFB mix quite frequently with the surrounding volunteer departments and in Westchester the Montrose VA dept mixes with the local volunteer departments as well.

[dwcfireman 656]

The training is out there but only one segment of the target population is required, by statute, to take it. I think it's discrimination and career firefighters should sue for being forced to take the training!

I've seen here in Westchester that FF1, FF2 and Survival have been bundled together. I think this is a great idea to get a great deal of training done in one longer class rather than three or four separate training classes. We could possibly tie Rescue Tech and FAST together, as well as Engine and Truck Company Ops, and EVOC with Pump and Aeiral Ops...We (as in NYS) could lump together like courses to help streamline training. IMO, though courses would be longer than four or five weeks (at twice per week), but you would require less courses to take to reach a level close to what career firefighters go through with probie school. I don't know how instructors would feel about longer, drawn out courses, but it seems like a good idea in my head.

And aren't new volunteers going to have a similar CPAT style examination? I believe I read it on a thread around here somewhere, but it seems like a step in the right direction. What are peoples' thoughts on that?

[Remember585 815]

1. To generalize that career and volunteer departments don't get along is not a fact. There are plenty of departments that work perfectly fine with one another regardless of how they are staffed. Sure you have isolated knuckleheads on both sides who flat-out hate one another, but the overall majority of ALL OF US don't fall into this category.

2. Do career firefighters have a hire minimum requirement - yes. Should volunteers, yes - but I STRONGLY feel that all of which is covered in the career academy is not applicable to volunteers - specifically the codes portion. A firefighter, whether paid or not, should have the basic education to respond to and mitigate just about anything we are sent to - and at minimum, we all need awareness level training of those specialized operations we may get sent to - but aren't necessarily trained for, staffed for or equipped for. IE: High-angle rescue, water rescue, confined space rescue, etc. It literally baffles me that awareness training on all of this isn't considered part of our minimum training.

3. No training requirements for career chiefs? Interesting. Although since most come from a lower level rank and usually have experience in that role, I don't think this is as bad as it sounds. Granted we all know how politics comes in to play and the best candidates tend to get bent over from time to time...

4. I wish you all a happy and safe holiday season. I don't care if you are paid or volunteer, I just hope you all make it home safe at the end of your day.