FF1 revisions

[FireMedic049 597]

By that logic you would never drive yhrough Newark or South Central LA due to the fear of being carjacked. And by that logic all cities in Westchester would be equally safe because all PD have the same standards. Fact is its not all about who has the longest academy.

And if my FD is not on other towns 10-75 cards then I guess we will need to work harder and make ourself better which we do anyway.im in a department thats far from perfect but we have made a lot of positive changes

Are you even in the same discussion as the rest of us? Some of your responses seem like you don't have a clue about what we're discussing.

[FD7807 59]

Are you even in the same discussion as the rest of us? Some of your responses seem like you don't have a clue about what we're discussing.

get your little mind away from NYS FF1 for a moment and think about the analogy I made. The PD has what you want the FD to have and there is still maj I r disparities among police departments. Sorey I am not at yoyr level mentally but I try.

[FireMedic049 597]

True, in our county, in dozens of communities they would throw you in the back of a police van or station wagon, with no attendant and no training a race you to the hospital. We had communities that actually turned down free ALS because "our community does not want trained EMS, they want a friendly face holding your hand in the back of our Ambulance" during your heart attack. Now ALS is mandated. EMT's are mandated....

Right and with that (over time) came a huge increase in the care that EMS can now deliver to your doorstep. It also brought a level of standardization on what care one could expect from a BLS ambulance, an ALS ambulance and QRS/response units.

Government involvement greatly improved the delivery of prehospital care in this country!

[FireMedic049 597]

get your little mind away from NYS FF1 for a moment and think about the analogy I made. The PD has what you want the FD to have and there is still maj I r disparities among police departments. Sorey I am not at yoyr level mentally but I try.

There's always going to be disparities among related groups and those disparities don't necessarily indicate the presence of a true problem. There's disparity between a 20 year PD officer and one fresh out of the academy.

There may be major disparities among police departments, but at least all of those wearing the police uniform are trained to a specific standard and can perform the core functions expected of a police officer. The same can't be said of the American Fire Service.

[Bnechis 3,961]

By that logic you would never drive yhrough Newark or South Central LA due to the fear of being carjacked. And by that logic all cities in Westchester would be equally safe because all PD have the same standards. Fact is its not all about who has the longest academy.

And if my FD is not on other towns 10-75 cards then I guess we will need to work harder and make ourself better which we do anyway.im in a department thats far from perfect but we have made a lot of positive changes

Do you mean the LAPD provides a different quality of personnel and service between one are and another? I am not say one community is safer than another based on the community, I am saying the difference is the service levels provided.

Actually the PD's do have the same standards, the conditions they work in are different.

Now a 2 1/2 story Queen Ann in Tarrytown and a 2 1/2 story Queen Ann in Yonkers or in Peekskill are similar, but the response to a fire in one is different in the 3 communities.

But the gang violence in the 3 communities is vastly different. So you are really comparing apples to oranges with your examples.

Since the every PD in the region has the same police academy it has nothing to do with the length of an academy, unless you are try to attack the career firefighters who also have the same academy time.

Finally, I may not have a choice as to which road I must travel on and which community it goes through, but when I buy a home I do.

I did not say, if you were not on their 10-75 card, I said if they did not trust you. Would you even know that?

[Bnechis 3,961]

get your little mind away from NYS FF1 for a moment and think about the analogy I made. The PD has what you want the FD to have and there is still maj I r disparities among police departments. Sorey I am not at yoyr level mentally but I try.

What disparities are their with the police dept.'s?

Every officer is trained in the same academy

Every supervisor has to pass the same test

The majority (if not all) are accredited agencies, so they all must have proper policies, procedures and in-service training

[Dinosaur 844]

What disparities are their with the police dept.'s?

Every officer is trained in the same academy

Every supervisor has to pass the same test

The majority (if not all) are accredited agencies, so they all must have proper policies, procedures and in-service training

Trained to the same standard regardless of the patch on their sleeve. Makes the concept of mutual aid pretty easy to implement. Everyone who shows up has the same basic training. Imagine that?

FD7807, you're missing our (at least my) point. Want to clear up a lot of the BS that exists in the NY fire service today? Adopt one common standard for FF training. That's a huge step in the right direction.

There will always be differences from department to department but if they basic training is the same regardless of patch or pay status, we'd all be better off.

[Bottom of Da Hill 76]

you just can win with the team they have here what a shame.but we all do the same job so i thought.no one here is saying training is not important our lives depend on it and so doe.s the public.s .so if any dept is that reckless abt not training then shame on them.my volunteer dept we strive to train we also have a few FDNY brothers that are members and there more then happy to teach the guys what they know and take the rookies under there wing now thats team work and brother hood not like the BS on this thread.come on guys stop the petty bickering and go and train.the volunteers look up to the paid guys and would love to be on the job one day so set an example for them be positive for the future of the fire service.you know what start here right now paid depts in west reach out to a volunteer dept near you an invite them to a training night and show them the way.there.s a lot of experience typing away here.thats team work.

[Remember585 815]

We can mandate whatever training we want as the "minimum," but what a department does for it's members after that is what truly separates the "men from the boys."

There's departments that take your FF1 and consider it "enough." That's wrong no matter how you slice it.

Training + experience = good firefighters. We all know "that guy" who has taken every class, but rarely shows up on calls and when they do, you wish they didn't.

[Bnechis 3,961]

1) but we all do the same job so i thought.

2) so if any dept is that reckless abt not training then shame on them.

3) come on guys stop the petty bickering and go and train.

4) the volunteers look up to the paid guys and would love to be on the job one day so set an example for them be positive for the future of the fire service.

5) you know what start here right now paid depts in west reach out to a volunteer dept near you an invite them to a training night and show them the way.there.s a lot of experience typing away here.thats team work.

1) You clearly do not know what career firefighters do. Responding to fire calls is a very small component of what we do.

2) Then their is a lot of shame out there.

3) We do train, daily, its mandated.

4) I agree that some do, but based on most of the previous comments this is 180 degrees from what is being stated.

5) We have and have been rejected by so many depts. its unbelievable. I will not go into the details or depts. But I personally have been present when chiefs and fire commissioners have made it clear that they are very content with where they are and that they do not need or want our help.

[FD7807 59]

1) You clearly do not know what career firefighters do. Responding to fire calls is a very small component of what we do.

2) Then their is a lot of shame out there.

3) We do train, daily, its mandated.

4) I agree that some do, but based on most of the previous comments this is 180 degrees from what is being stated.

5) We have and have been rejected by so many depts. its unbelievable. I will not go into the details or depts. But I personally have been present when chiefs and fire commissioners have made it clear that they are very content with where they are and that they do not need or want our help.

in response to #1 as a volunteer I respond to fire calls, train, participatre in fire prevention activities, work with chiefs on SOG's, coordinate department training etc. What more does a career FF do aside from EMS ? ( Not being sarcastic)

[Bnechis 3,961]

in response to #1 as a volunteer I respond to fire calls, train, participatre in fire prevention activities, work with chiefs on SOG's, coordinate department training etc. What more does a career FF do aside from EMS ? ( Not being sarcastic)

A major part of what we do is code enforcement.

Every day we spend hours inspecting properties, educating the property owners and enforcing the NYS UFP&BC. This also leads us to having CIDS info for many occupancies. In my department that's over 12,000 man hours per year. As part of code enforcement we also do plan review, oil burner and oil tank instillation/removal inspections. This also means regular code training and building construction training re-inspections and occasionally going to court to enforce the code.

How important is this? 31 years ago this week 5 Buffalo FD members were killed in an illegal propane tank explosion. Proper code enforcement prevents tragidies like this.

EMS is another major component, which results in 50% of the service we provide and again adds training and in-service continuous training. A shoot of from this is we do a fair number of assistance calls where we generally are checking out then picking up the "I've fallen and cant get up" citizens. This leads to another program, the "Patient Assist Assessment" program which is a referral system where we evaluate elderly and other at risk residence and get them assistance such as home healthcare, special home equipment, and facility placement when needed.

Fire training as you say, but we also have to maintain full Hazmat/WMD tech training and Technical Rescue (rope, confined space, trench, collapse and water). This training is done both in house and with WSOTF (and 2x year with FDNY)

Also because of our call volume, our equipment and maintenance needs are much higher, so a good deal of time is taken up with this as well.

Their are other smaller items, but this is a major part of the difference

[FireMedic049 597]

in response to #1 as a volunteer I respond to fire calls, train, participatre in fire prevention activities, work with chiefs on SOG's, coordinate department training etc. What more does a career FF do aside from EMS ? ( Not being sarcastic)

We aren't as involved with actual code enforcement as Bnechis' department, but we do a lot of building inspection activity throughout the year. Anytime a property changes owners we inspect the property before a new occupancy permit is issued. We also do annual inspections for various commercial occupancies like our hospital, personal care homes, nursing facilities, schools and any other business that the state requires to have inspections from us.

We also do a lot of fire safety education in our schools and other facilities that need fire safety training for their staff, including fire extinguisher training.

We do a lot of public service stuff. Right now we're in the early stages of a smoke detector giveaway program in conjunction with the Red Cross. We're going to residential properties and installing as many smoke detectors as needed. We also go to the elementary schools annually to read books to the lower grades as part of a program they run in which people from the community (us, the PD and other professionals) come in for "story time".

We try to visit every building that has a knox box annually, particularly the ones we don't routinely respond to, to check the keys in the box and verify that they still work and see if there's new keys that we need. There's been many times that we've discovered that a lock was changed or added and we weren't notified about it so the new key could be added to the knox box.

In addition to this, we have daily upkeep and some maintenance responsibilities for the stations, apparatus and equipment. We're also looking into some other stuff for the future.

[gamewell45 258]

A major part of what we do is code enforcement.

Every day we spend hours inspecting properties, educating the property owners and enforcing the NYS UFP&BC. This also leads us to having CIDS info for many occupancies. In my department that's over 12,000 man hours per year. As part of code enforcement we also do plan review, oil burner and oil tank instillation/removal inspections. This also means regular code training and building construction training re-inspections and occasionally going to court to enforce the code.

How important is this? 31 years ago this week 5 Buffalo FD members were killed in an illegal propane tank explosion. Proper code enforcement prevents tragidies like this.

EMS is another major component, which results in 50% of the service we provide and again adds training and in-service continuous training. A shoot of from this is we do a fair number of assistance calls where we generally are checking out then picking up the "I've fallen and cant get up" citizens. This leads to another program, the "Patient Assist Assessment" program which is a referral system where we evaluate elderly and other at risk residence and get them assistance such as home healthcare, special home equipment, and facility placement when needed.

Fire training as you say, but we also have to maintain full Hazmat/WMD tech training and Technical Rescue (rope, confined space, trench, collapse and water). This training is done both in house and with WSOTF (and 2x year with FDNY)

Also because of our call volume, our equipment and maintenance needs are much higher, so a good deal of time is taken up with this as well.

Their are other smaller items, but this is a major part of the difference

If I can expand on that and do a comparison;

While I understand that conditions in a major city differ greatly from rural departments, much of what you have mentioned is already provided by the town I live in (and I suspect many of the towns where I live). We have a f/t building inspector, along with a part timer as well and between the two they do code enforcement, inspect properties and enforce the NYS UFP&BC.

While we provide volunteer EMS as part of our mission statement, we also provide ALS service through a commercial agency to meet the needs of the town. those residents whom may require assistance to get them home healthcare, special home equipment and facility placement are referred to the county social services.

Likewise, the county maintains a hazmat team; technical rescue is handled by the various county agencies.

My department also trains with other departments, particularly those charged with providing us mutual aid and visa versa.

I think it's pretty obvious that due to the size of the city you work in, they end up putting much of the workload on the fire department. But then again there is funding for that whereas where I live that would require funding (which the tax payers are not willing to bite into) and of course would mean duplication of services and as I'm sure you'll agree, that would be the last thing most of us would want to see especially in the era of consolidation encouragement.

Training for volunteers in the areas you mentioned that are out of the 4% scope of fire suppression where services already exist to handle that would be superfluous at best.

[JM15 386]

So have any departments made their own course yet for practice? We are looking at doing it and looking for unique ideas

[38ff 250]

I was talking to a SFI, and asked about the ceiling simulator... He said for depts that don't have one (and very few do according to him) he said when they run the course outdoors he uses a decent sized tree branch, pulling it up and down.......

[Bnechis 3,961]

I was talking to a SFI, and asked about the ceiling simulator... He said for depts that don't have one (and very few do according to him) he said when they run the course outdoors he uses a decent sized tree branch, pulling it up and down.......

Do you need an NFPA approved tree?

[JM15 386]

Do you need an NFPA approved tree?

Costs extra....

[firecapt32 282]

I am pretty sure a pulley system and some weights will work as well if not better then a tree-- but hey you never know "necessity is the mother of invention"