Somers FD Disbanding Dive Team?

[Flashpoint 94]

I was told that Somers FD is disbanding their dive team, and selling all the equipment due to lack of manpower to support a dive team and meet all the training requirements? Can anyone confirm or deny this? It would certainly leave a large void in an area where a dive team is needed.

How many members must you have for a dive team response including trained divers? Is Yorktown the next closest team?

Edited November 24, 2014 by Flashpoint

[newsbuff 286]

How does this leave a "large" void? Yorktown, a large bordering district, has a dive team. Seems like a good move to me, less duplication of resources.

Edited November 24, 2014 by newsbuff

[somebuffyguy 190]

It's probably a "large void" because as far as I know Yorktown and Continental Village are the only two left in northern Westchester. Yorktown basically covers from the Hudson to the Connecticut border.

[Dinosaur 844]

Could they be merged into a regional effort (since they all go mutual aid anyway) and make use of the resources that each department has?

What will be done with all the equipment?

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Could they be merged into a regional effort (since they all go mutual aid anyway) and make use of the resources that each department has?

What will be done with all the equipment?

Departments sharing resources? Crazy idea.

[newsbuff 286]

It's probably a "large void" because as far as I know Yorktown and Continental Village are the only two left in northern Westchester. Yorktown basically covers from the Hudson to the Connecticut border.

For a specialized unit that gets called only a handful of times per year, I don't really see how just one team covering the north part of the county, plus the County PD team, is an issue. We only have 3 Haz-Mat units for the entire county, simply because you don't need more than that.

[10512 214]

Does Mahopac Falls in Putnam County have a Dive team? They border Somers. I thought they had one.

[Dinosaur 844]

For a specialized unit that gets called only a handful of times per year, I don't really see how just one team covering the north part of the county, plus the County PD team, is an issue. We only have 3 Haz-Mat units for the entire county, simply because you don't need more than that.

County PD has a dive team? I thought Croton PD was the only PD with one in Westchester.

[mreis95 77]

County PD doesn't have a dive team. They used to.

[sympathomedic 383]

I believe the NYSP has divers. Last drill we had with DEC ESU (yes DEC has their own ESU) they were pushing for dive status but were not there yet. Much dive work is in the resevoirs.

[Dinosaur 844]

I believe the NYSP has divers. Last drill we had with DEC ESU (yes DEC has their own ESU) they were pushing for dive status but were not there yet. Much dive work is in the resevoirs.

State Police do have divers for sure. Worked with them several times. Do you mean NYC DEP or NYS DEC?

[DaRock98 76]

Mt. Pleasant Police has a dive team as well.

[newsbuff 286]

Well I stand corrected, and now more informed. Since it can be safely said that if you are sending divers in, 95% of the time it's no longer an emergency but a recovery effort at that point. That being said, response time doesn't need to be within minutes of something happening since it becomes an extended operation with anyone in the water. I don't think that extra 10 minutes of travel time is going to hurt anyone more than they already are.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I don't think that extra 10 minutes of travel time is going to hurt anyone more than they already are.

They will be dead for 10 more minutes. Boy that's got to hurt.

[newsbuff 286]

They will be dead for 10 more minutes. Boy that's got to hurt.

I hope they magically grow gills or something.

[PC_420 28]

Does Mahopac Falls in Putnam County have a Dive team? They border Somers. I thought they had one.

Yes. We do still operate a very functional dive team and are prepared to support our brothers to the south

[somebuffyguy 190]

As much as it may seem like a joke to you, people have survived surprisingly long times under cold water. So time still does count. Ever hear " They're not dead till they're warm and dead" ? Forget just dive teams, how about just water rescue teams in Northern Westchester? Remember the incident this August in Croton Falls when Yorktown took a 20 minute drive to the reservoir as the nearest water rescue unit ?

I don't have the exact numbers but I would bet money more people die in Northern Westchester in water incidents than in structure fires. As much as guys in the suburbs love to think we're in the city we're not. This isn't the Bronx with multiple structure fires a night, it's a rural/suburban area covered with bodies of water. It's a bit absurd to think in an area like this the nearest help for a drowning victim is 20+ minutes away.

[sympathomedic 383]

That is a very interesting observation. There would bet there are more water fatalities than fire fatalities. In my town that is the case. It would take more time than I have to research it. But I don't think more dive teams would mean fewer water deaths. Many are in swimming pools, and some are jumpers that are dead from the fall height, so dive teams wouldn't help save those people.

Maybe some one can or will correct me, but I believe the biggest wate rescue operation we have, The Coast Guard, does not have divers. They save by surface rescue only. That is per the book, "Dead Men Tapping", which is a few years old. (real life story of 3 men dieing in an overturned boat while USCG rounded up private divers).

[dwcfireman 656]

Could they be merged into a regional effort (since they all go mutual aid anyway) and make use of the resources that each department has?

My hometown department (Monroe County) is one of six departments that operate a battalion wide ice/cold water team. Each department has its own suits, throw rope, rescue tools, etc. And each department brings something special to the table, like the 3 UTVs, 2 flat bottom boats, and a Kodiak inflatable boat. There's a similar team on the other side of the county set up similarly, and I believe the City of Rochester has their own which is available to a good chunk of the county.

Departments sharing resources? Crazy idea.

It is possible!!! lol

[JM15 386]

Somers FD has indeed disbanded its dive team. We have two excellent dive teams bordering us in Yorktown and Mahopac Falls. Currently all of our dive equipment is for sale including the vehicle Rescue 38. We are looking in the future to replace our marine 22 which is a zodiac with something new to fit our needs since we do have a lot of water. We will be maintaining our ice rescue equipment and concentrate on surface rescue. If any departments are interested in equipment we have a lot for sale.

[thebreeze 194]

As much as it may seem like a joke to you, people have survived surprisingly long times under cold water. So time still does count. Ever hear " They're not dead till they're warm and dead" ? Forget just dive teams, how about just water rescue teams in Northern Westchester? Remember the incident this August in Croton Falls when Yorktown took a 20 minute drive to the reservoir as the nearest water rescue unit ?

I don't have the exact numbers but I would bet money more people die in Northern Westchester in water incidents than in structure fires. As much as guys in the suburbs love to think we're in the city we're not. This isn't the Bronx with multiple structure fires a night, it's a rural/suburban area covered with bodies of water. It's a bit absurd to think in an area like this the nearest help for a drowning victim is 20+ minutes away.

No one is surviving long UNDER the water, however in the water with flotation is a very different story. Dive teams are more likely a recovery resource than a rescue resource in reality

http://gcaptain.com/cold_water/

The link is to an interesting article about the facts about cold water drowning and immersion in cold water, both with and without flotation. Seems like by the time a dive team is assembled, unless it just happens to be on the shore nearby, if the person has already gone under, they are likely to expire. I feel cold water rescue teams would be a resource that would be more beneficial to duplicate and have many of than dive teams, since they are more than likely doing recovery they are not necessarily needed to assemble and respond as quickly. I agree with you that it's a realistic risk in our area that we will need water rescue resources, and I agree cold water rescue units would be useful, I just don't think the dive teams are as realistic a resource to maintain for what they can actually provide. How many times is a dive team called where in reality the person isn't actually under the water and it's simply a cold water rescue? One quote that stood out from the article that struck me as pertinent to the conversation was this,

"I’m going to come right out and tell you something that almost no one in the maritime industry understands. That includes mariners, executives, managers, insurers, dock workers, for certain – fisherman, and even many (most) rescue professionals:It is impossible to die from hypothermia in cold water unless you are wearing flotation, because without flotation – you won’t live long enough to become hypothermic."

Give the article a good read, its written by a well heeled former Coast Guard member who knows his stuff, it certainly opened my eyes to a few new things.

[somebuffyguy 190]

Nobody ever survived for long under water huh ? Depends what your definition of long is, but 20+ minutes is longer than most people would think.

Also as far as I know, many dive teams will stay in rescue mode for up to an hour before going to recovery due to the possibility of survival.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/boy-survives-25-minutes-underwater-rescued-12-year/story?id=14271832

http://www.today.com/id/36190954/ns/today-today_news/t/miracle-boy-ok-after-minutes-underwater/#.VHT5jMmK1mg

http://www.12newsnow.com/story/16200067/boy-2-survives-30-minutes-underwater

http://www.scotsman.com/news/world/miracle-boys-defy-death-under-the-ice-1-1299632

They're not dead till they're warm and dead !

Edited November 25, 2014 by somebuffyguy

[velcroMedic1987 330]

I doubt very much that more people die in fires or water related incidents than from heart attacks, strokes, and other medical emergencies in Northern Westchester or Putnam yet we sit here debating about how a 20 minute response time for a dive team may be too long while at the same time accepting that for an ambulance response time. 3rd tones, going mutual aid. Tick tock, tick tock.

The hypocrisy and misguided priorities astonishes me.

If dive teams are so important, put one in every department. Then do the same for haz-mat, tech rescue, etc. etc. etc. Pretty soon everybody doing nothing and we are revisiting this thread when everyone is selling their gear like Somers.

It's a pity that Somers has to disband their dive team. They had invested a lot of time, resources and effort to maintain it.

[Morningjoe 162]

Nobody ever survived for long under water huh ? Depends what your definition of long is, but 20+ minutes is longer than most people would think.

Also as far as I know, many dive teams will stay in rescue mode for up to an hour before going to recovery due to the possibility of survival.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/boy-survives-25-minutes-underwater-rescued-12-year/story?id=14271832

http://www.today.com/id/36190954/ns/today-today_news/t/miracle-boy-ok-after-minutes-underwater/#.VHT5jMmK1mg

http://www.12newsnow.com/story/16200067/boy-2-survives-30-minutes-underwater

http://www.scotsman.com/news/world/miracle-boys-defy-death-under-the-ice-1-1299632

They're not dead till they're warm and dead !

The longest anyone has ever survived fully submerged underwater, is 90 minutes. That was a small child who had broken through the ice, and was rescued 90 minutes later, and made a 100% full recovery. Using this, the team I'm familiar with sets a 90 minute time limit from the time the water rescue team is dispatch until the switch from rescue to recovery mode, regardless of the victims age or water temperature.

On another note, public safety diving/water rescue is one of the most dangerous and technically advanced operations that can be undertaken by an emergency service. Comparing a LODD / # of water operations vs LODD / # structure fires, you have a much higher probability of dying while operating at a water incident then you do operating inside of a structure fire. Because of this, hours upon hours of advanced training, tens of thousands of dollars worth of dive and water rescue equipment on the initial start up, followed by thousands of dollars worth of yearly upkeep cost are required, which in turn, prohibit many smaller departments or departments with minimal water in their jurisdiction, from justifying the need for all of the money and time spent on equipment and training.

Departments are not required to have the equipment or training to handle every emergency in their jurisdiction. They only need a plan of action of who they're going to call (insert Ghost Busters joke here) if they are dispatched to an incident that they are not trained on.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Morningjoe