Piermont,ny FD Double Wetdown

[MESS11FOREVER 246]

[capt2102 64]

Ok, feel free to tell me I'm off base with what I'm going to say. First of all I get the tradition, never actually seen this, but I get it. It's just that a week ago a firefighter DIED of his injuries after the tower ladder he was in CAME CLOSE to a high voltage power line. The ladder was being used at an ALS Ice Bucket Challenge. There are primaries right above the wet down and they are hit from a short distance with 1,500 GPM on straight stream. The wires are dancing overhead and yet several children are playing directly underneath, and no one seems to care. How much does it take for one wire to come off an insulator?

Make no mistake, A/C power will reach out and get you. You don't have to wrap two hands around it. Again, I'm not being critical of the tradition, I just really have issue with the lack of common sense, especially when it comes to children.

[MESS11FOREVER 246]

Ive been going for so long to wetdowns all over the place and ive never witnessed anything to do with water and electricity.. Can it happened? Ofcourse it can! Dont you think if it was such an issue that departments wouldnt host them??

[thebreeze 194]

Ive been going for so long to wetdowns all over the place and ive never witnessed anything to do with water and electricity.. Can it happened? Ofcourse it can! Dont you think if it was such an issue that departments wouldnt host them??

Departments don't care, they will do what they want. Its already a waste of time, money, and resources on the part of the departments who hold them, and those that come to them. They don't give any thought to these things as far as a reason to not do wet downs, so why would some other common sense stop them?

[AndyC3J 190]

Some enforcement of the 50 PSI and Fog Stream only rules that appear on most flyers could eliminate such problems. It is when people stop being responsible that bad things happen which give such events the bad rep that they have.

It's unfortunate that some people think such events are a waste of time, etc., and they are certainly entitled to their opinions. But, the "all work, no play" mentality is not good for morale or retaining members, either. Gotta have a little fun and be sociable once in a while, just do it safely.

[Remember585 815]

Ive been going for so long to wetdowns all over the place and ive never witnessed anything to do with water and electricity.. Can it happened? Ofcourse it can! Dont you think if it was such an issue that departments wouldnt host them??

Sadly, no. Sometimes the good intentions of many are ruined by the carelessness of one or some. Let's be honest, how many times have all of us been at a function where one guy or group of people ruins the fun? And, let's not beat around the bush, it's often attributed to overdoing it with alcohol - which thankfully most of us have learned to keep away from (or at least minimize) at things like these.

I see no harm in having a wetdown, provided it is done safely and tastefully. The Captain raises a good point about the electrical issue, and hopefully it raises others' awareness in the future at such events.

Congrats to Piermont on their two new apparatus. And thanks to Mess for sharing the video!

[M' Ave 1,466]

Is teenagers riding on the top of the body part of a "wet down"?

I'm not a fan of all work and no play either.....but I never understood the point of a wet down. It's a truck/engine. A tool. I've been working more than once for the assignment of a new apparatus......the shops calls, we dump the tools/hose on the floor, drop the old rig off at the shops, get the new one, load it up and a few hours later we're back in service. Next run comin'......

[Remember585 815]

Is teenagers riding on the top of the body part of a "wet down"?

I'm not a fan of all work and no play either.....but I never understood the point of a wet down. It's a truck/engine. A tool. I've been working more than once for the assignment of a new apparatus......the shops calls, we dump the tools/hose on the floor, drop the old rig off at the shops, get the new one, load it up and a few hours later we're back in service. Next run comin'......

A lot of times an apparatus will be blessed by a Priest or Chaplain, and the tradition of other apparatus providing the "wet down" are basically "baptizing" it as a way to "keep the brothers riding it safe." So I have been told...

[ex-commish 490]

Is teenagers riding on the top of the body part of a "wet down"?

I'm not a fan of all work and no play either.....but I never understood the point of a wet down. It's a truck/engine. A tool. I've been working more than once for the assignment of a new apparatus......the shops calls, we dump the tools/hose on the floor, drop the old rig off at the shops, get the new one, load it up and a few hours later we're back in service. Next run comin'......

I believe it mimicks the christening of a new battleship...a long standing tradition. I will admit the rigs coming in with the sirens is a bit much.

[capt2102 64]

Look on youtube at the monster truck crash that killed 3( including several small children) this weekend in the Netherlands. Onlookers are only several feet away and are "protected" by a portable crowd fence. Another great plan. "But we had a permit and we've been doing it this way for years."

[16fire5 693]

Some enforcement of the 50 PSI and Fog Stream only rules that appear on most flyers could eliminate such problems. It is when people stop being responsible that bad things happen which give such events the bad rep that they have.

It's unfortunate that some people think such events are a waste of time, etc., and they are certainly entitled to their opinions. But, the "all work, no play" mentality is not good for morale or retaining members, either. Gotta have a little fun and be sociable once in a while, just do it safely.

These events have been the cause of many, many injuries which is why many places have gone to dry downs which I believe are a party celebrating the apparatus without the water fight. I recently sat and witnessed one while fire police closed a portion of a federally funded highway (I highly doubt they had a permit) and the week before witnessed numerous units responding to another one in a commercial area and was unable to convince my daughter that it really wasn't an emergency. I know a chief that did everything possible to make an event safe and still ended up with injuries and he and the former fire coordinator of Orange implored departments to stop the practice but it fell on deaf ears. It's only a matter of time before an apparatus lurches forward and runs someone over at one of these events.

I like the idea of the blessing and I'll probably do that when I get my next rig. Hopefully the atheists don't get me in trouble.

[MESS11FOREVER 246]

I attended a wetdown in Westchester county (wont mention the department) a couple years back a (water wetdown no less) when the guest department showed up lights and sirens blaring started flowing water, the host department proceeded back to there rig(s) and started flowing water back at the guest department.. There were

handlines, deckguns, sirens, plenty of water and it turned out there were no problems at all.. When the water was all done both departments shook hands the guest department congratulating the host department with there new rig and the night continued.... Aside the fact, from that event, everything was great the food, entertainment, the members of the hosting department were extremely nice they gave us a tour of there firehouse and new rig. I could understand straight streams being a problem yes and maybe excessive siren use but it really comes down to the individual and whether he uses common judgement or not..

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

A tool.

Would you call an riflemans rifle just a tool? How about your bunkers? To answer my own question it maybe a tool, but it is also a symbol, a symbol of something much larger than just the rig itself.

I highly doubt you would call yourself a firefighter if you weren't riding around in a fire apparatus. While a wet down may be extreme, acknowledging that it is both a tool to use and a symbol of our profession, whether full-time or volunteer, recognizes the tradition and history of the department and the rig you are replacing as well as the history yet to be made by and with your new apparatus. We leave every call just as we came to it, on the rig.

When people see a FDNY fire truck with FDNY firefighters they are not seeing a 30 foot long piece of steel with a diesel motor filled with 5 guys, they see a trained department staffed and ready to respond to any and all emergencies. They see men and women ready and able to put it all on the line with pride in their hearts and skills in their head.

If it is just a tool, ride around in a Econoline with a fairy light, a portable pump, some axes and hoses, same thing right?

Edited September 29, 2014 by SRS131EMTFF

[AndyC3J 190]

These events have been the cause of many, many injuries which is why many places have gone to dry downs which I believe are a party celebrating the apparatus without the water fight. I recently sat and witnessed one while fire police closed a portion of a federally funded highway (I highly doubt they had a permit) and the week before witnessed numerous units responding to another one in a commercial area and was unable to convince my daughter that it really wasn't an emergency. I know a chief that did everything possible to make an event safe and still ended up with injuries and he and the former fire coordinator of Orange implored departments to stop the practice but it fell on deaf ears. It's only a matter of time before an apparatus lurches forward and runs someone over at one of these events.

I like the idea of the blessing and I'll probably do that when I get my next rig. Hopefully the atheists don't get me in trouble.

It does seem to be a dying tradition in many areas, including here in Orange. Quite a few new rigs have been placed in service over the past few years without any kind of ceremony or party at all....or if there was one, it wasn't advertised much. Whether it be fear of injury, damage, taxpayer backlash, etc. Who knows? It's far from the "given" that it once was.

[x152 179]

Would you call an riflemans rifle just a tool? How about your bunkers? To answer my own question it maybe a tool, but it is also a symbol, a symbol of something much larger than just the rig itself.

I highly doubt you would call yourself a firefighter if you weren't riding around in a fire apparatus. While a wet down may be extreme, acknowledging that it is both a tool to use and a symbol of our profession, whether full-time or volunteer, recognizes the tradition and history of the department and the rig you are replacing as well as the history yet to be made by and with your new apparatus. We leave every call just as we came to it, on the rig.

When people see a FDNY fire truck with FDNY firefighters they are not seeing a 30 foot long piece of steel with a diesel motor filled with 5 guys, they see a trained department staffed and ready to respond to any and all emergencies. They see men and women ready and able to put it all on the line with pride in their hearts and skills in their head.

If it is just a tool, ride around in a Econoline with a fairy light, a portable pump, some axes and hoses, same thing right?

No, it is a tool.

Those that choose to elevate to something other than a tool, are usually the same tools that believe that racing around town with sirens and lights blaring while squirting water at each other is an acceptable way to demonstrate or use a tool.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Lights and siren, with people riding on top? Are you kidding, this is not tradition, its just stupidity.

I know nothing about this department, other than this snap shot of how unprofessional they are and what a poor example they are setting for the members, the dept., the community and the fire service in general.

I am surprised that no one else is commenting on this aspect.

Fire Chief X, please tell the jury if their is a plaque on the vehicle stating "death or serious injury can occur from ridding on top or on the tailboard"

Same question to the driver:

Fire Chief X, (and Driver) Do you have a riding on top policy or a seat belt policy?

Why did you allow, why did you operate with members in such an exposed position.

Tradition is not an answer the jury will buy.

As the chief, you are risking your people and the financial downfall of the department. You may also have personal liability.

As the driver, do you know that if someone is killed in this stupidity, you may forfeit your home, your car and your salary for years to come.

[thebreeze 194]

It's nice to do something for the rig, I agree, but this is over the top stupidity. The last rig my department put in service, there was a small ceremony. Attendees came, there was breakfast, some thanks were said to those who participated in the process to obtain the rig, the chaplain said a prayer over it, and a bottle of champagne was broken over the bumper. Simple, quiet, traditional, and gave the department a chance to give the rig some well wishes for future success. What's wrong with this type of a ceremony? People seem to prefer this other absolute nonsense, more of a chance to make asses of themselves I guess. It's a terrible waste of resources and a terrible image to put forth to the public. Not to mention unsafe and full of possibility for liability, especially when it's conducted like this.

[Danger 160]

I'm pretty sure I've been looking at this website for at least eight years if not longer, and the same people are still making the same posts about wetdowns and parades. Does it ever get old? Does anyone still wonder why this forum is dead?

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

Lights and siren, with people riding on top? Are you kidding, this is not tradition, its just stupidity.

I know nothing about this department, other than this snap shot of how unprofessional they are and what a poor example they are setting for the members, the dept., the community and the fire service in general.

I am surprised that no one else is commenting on this aspect.

Fire Chief X, please tell the jury if their is a plaque on the vehicle stating "death or serious injury can occur from ridding on top or on the tailboard"

Same question to the driver:

Fire Chief X, (and Driver) Do you have a riding on top policy or a seat belt policy?

Why did you allow, why did you operate with members in such an exposed position.

Tradition is not an answer the jury will buy.

As the chief, you are risking your people and the financial downfall of the department. You may also have personal liability.

As the driver, do you know that if someone is killed in this stupidity, you may forfeit your home, your car and your salary for years to come.

Yes but they do it for free

[AndyC3J 190]

I'm definitely not a fan of people riding atop the rig, whether it be in a parade, or approaching a wetdown. Definitely a tragedy waiting to happen. Nor am I a fan of "aggressive" water fights. Done right, they are enjoyable events.

Some people I know would be less likely to go if there's no water. Doesn't bother me. I don't go to get wet, I go to photograph the apparatus, enjoy myself, and maybe pick up a T-shirt if I like it. I would not object if there was a simple ceremony/christening, as was mentioned above. That's how some Long Island departments do it, followed by wetting it down all at once, then go inside for food. For whatever reason, most of the events down there aren't "advertised" the way they are in other areas. I am glad to have been able to attend some of those that I did hear about.

[MESS11FOREVER 246]

I'm definitely not a fan of people riding atop the rig, whether it be in a parade, or approaching a wetdown. Definitely a tragedy waiting to happen. Nor am I a fan of "aggressive" water fights. Done right, they are enjoyable events.

Well said!

The moral of the story is every department has there own thoughts and opinions on how to welcome in a new piece of apparatus whether its wetting it down,pushing the apparatus into the firehouse,champagne bottle over the bumper or even calling it a wetdown with no water.. Ive been to all kindsof events regarding a new rig and i always had a good time..

[M' Ave 1,466]

Would you call an riflemans rifle just a tool? How about your bunkers? To answer my own question it maybe a tool, but it is also a symbol, a symbol of something much larger than just the rig itself.

I highly doubt you would call yourself a firefighter if you weren't riding around in a fire apparatus. While a wet down may be extreme, acknowledging that it is both a tool to use and a symbol of our profession, whether full-time or volunteer, recognizes the tradition and history of the department and the rig you are replacing as well as the history yet to be made by and with your new apparatus. We leave every call just as we came to it, on the rig.

When people see a FDNY fire truck with FDNY firefighters they are not seeing a 30 foot long piece of steel with a diesel motor filled with 5 guys, they see a trained department staffed and ready to respond to any and all emergencies. They see men and women ready and able to put it all on the line with pride in their hearts and skills in their head.

If it is just a tool, ride around in a Econoline with a fairy light, a portable pump, some axes and hoses, same thing right?

Nope, just a tool. That's what it is. We clean our rig the same way we clean a haligan.....because they're both tools. The can man has his can, the OV has his haligan and hook and a chauffeur has his apparatus.

I call myself a fireman, because that's what I am. Firemen are what they are because of the job they do.....not the vehicle they ride in, that's just silly.

It's not a symbol of anything bigger......the members inside, they matter. A truck is a truck.

[Danger 160]

Nope, just a tool. That's what it is. We clean our rig the same way we clean a haligan.....because they're both tools. The can man has his can, the OV has his haligan and hook and a chauffeur has his apparatus.

I call myself a fireman, because that's what I am. Firemen are what they are because of the job they do.....not the vehicle they ride in, that's just silly.

It's not a symbol of anything bigger......the members inside, they matter. A truck is a truck.

The rig isn't symbolic of anything bigger than just a machine. No pride in the machines. Got it.

[M' Ave 1,466]

The rig isn't symbolic of anything bigger than just a machine. No pride in the machines. Got it.

That's right, it's just a machine. That one happens to have a mural on the side. Last time I worked in L10, they had a spare. It was an old rusty bucket and I PROMISE you, there wasnt any less pride among the members.

There's plenty of pride in that rig......because we have pride in our TOOLS. When we start our tour or after a job, we wash our rig, we take a wire wheel to our hooks, haligans and brass nozzles.....because they're tools that we have pride in.