Youtube Video Of A Subject Refusing To Comply With NYSP Troopers In Montrose

[Viper 139]

Edited September 2, 2014 by TheViper

[x635 4,066]

By the book in my eyes. These officers showed great professionalism and restraint with this subject, who was given every opportunity to comply before it escalated to the next level.

[STAT213 332]

The kick to the head is really the only questionable action in my mind.

I am all for tasers. Use them early. Resist like he did and get tased.

Yes, it is painful as all heck, but it reduces injury to suspect and officer alike. That in turn reduces liability. The only downside is public opinion, but that kick to the head will NOT help their case. Taser earlier, and it is done.

[Remember585 815]

Rob,

I don't think he kicked him in the head. I watched it a few times and it appears they kicked the mutt's hat away.

[huzzie59 75]

Nice work by the troopers!

I agree it looks like they kicked the hat out of the way.

This time video shows police handled it the right way.

[TimesUp 148]

Its obvious to me that the trooper only wanted to help this man. Why he wouldn't want his help is beyond me. Good job he got what he deserved for refusing the troopers help.

It does look like the trooper was trying to kick the hat out the way. That hat was making it difficult for the troopers to subdue that guy.

[RES24CUE 168]

Really? The hat was making it difficult to subdue the guy? Were his socks making it difficult as well? The people on this site are so brainwashed in favor of fire, ems, and law enforcement that these cops could have shot this guy while he was laying in the street and they would still be patting these guys on the back in this thread! I just love how long it took for two well-trained law enforcement professionals to take one disorderly moron into custody! What did they even stop him for? J walking? Suspicious activity? Even though they outnumbered him two to one it took kicks to the head, pepper spray, and a taser in addition to 45 seconds of wrestling this guy to get him into custody. I just hope the liberal media gets this video front and center on the morning news tomorrow and we'll see what the public thinks about the actions of these troopers and not just the fan club here on this site! My vote is that their actions were egregious...as usual! Police view the public as the enemy! The old mentality of "protect and serve" is nonexistent nowadays! It's been changed to "command and taze."

[INIT915 1,119]

The kick to the head is really the only questionable action in my mind.

I am all for tasers. Use them early. Resist like he did and get tased.

Yes, it is painful as all heck, but it reduces injury to suspect and officer alike. That in turn reduces liability. The only downside is public opinion, but that kick to the head will NOT help their case. Taser earlier, and it is done.

Not a kick to the head, a kick of the hat away so that OC Pepper could be utilized.

From the guy who took and posted the video:

Its my footage and my video, right before I started filming, like I said before, the guy beat two other dudes with a 2x4 right before this. The cop then began to arrest him but the guy said fuck off and started walking away, which is when the video starts, he was bleeding from the fight and that's why the cop said he wanted to help him.

[INIT915 1,119]

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/crime/2014/09/02/montrose-man-charged-assaulting-troopers/14955227/

Meanwhile, Rosario and his victim were taken to the Westchester Medical Center. Rosario had a cut on his head while his victim was treated for a broken nose and needed several stitches to close a wound to his head, police said.

He was held without bail at the Westchester County jail due to four previous felony convictions, police said. He's due back in Town Court on Friday.

Looks like the Troopers were looking to take him into custody after he beat another guy with a 2x4. Four previous felony convictions, and free to walk the streets!

[SOUSGT 357]

What I find to be the most disturbing is the title of this thread “Montrose Beat down and Tasting” . .

Clearly there was no beating on the part of the troopers. But even when you use the minimum amount of force necessary to quell the situation, someone will try and escalate the situation and prompt a trial by headline.

[SECTMB 612]

I agree, not a kick to the head, an effort to get his cap out of the way and in which could have been something dangerous since he had not been searched yet. Beat down is not a proper label.

It's very simple, don't resist, comply with lawful instructions and nobody gets hurt.

[STAT213 332]

Watching it again, I now agree that it wasn't a kick to the head. But, that was my first impression. Could've been someone else's too.

For the LEOs in here...Why put hands on and risk injury to officer and perpetrator? I'm not up on my escalation of force police policies. Can you go right to the taser, or do you have to escalate through hands on and pepper spray? Seems to be a high risk of injury rolling around and grappling.

[10512 214]

Even if it was a kick to the head, I think the Troopers were justified.
No law ever said the cops had to be nice, just civil.

If you instigate a problem you really have no complaint when it does not have a happy ending for you.

Once a person makes the decision to go hands on with the Police, he chose his hand.

What happens after that is up to, and the responsibility of, the perp. I am not saying there are no limits to what the Police can be justified in doing, there are.

But, I see no problem with "one-upping" a perp. If you use your hands, so can the cops, (this includes using feet) and the cops can "one-up" by using a stick, taser or spray. If it is one perp, there can be 2, or 3 or more cops. If you use a weapon, the cops can use a gun.

No one ever said the cops had to fight fair.

The perps are not going to!

No one ever said Policing was pretty. It is not. But people seem to have a problem when they see it.

I have done this for a bit over 27 years.

I say put on a shield and go out there and show me how it is done.

I say kudos to the Troopers.

Edited September 3, 2014 by 10512

[10512 214]

Watching it again, I now agree that it wasn't a kick to the head. But, that was my first impression. Could've been someone else's too.

For the LEOs in here...Why put hands on and risk injury to officer and perpetrator? I'm not up on my escalation of force police policies. Can you go right to the taser, or do you have to escalate through hands on and pepper spray? Seems to be a high risk of injury rolling around and grappling.

You can go straight to a Taser, stick or spray. You would have to explain that the person posed a physical threat.

Most cops will tend to try and go physical and try to stop someone first. I think that is an old habit. Most cops start off trying not to escalate it.

With more tasers out there, and newer cops, I am thinking that will change.

I have rarely seen a person who has been tasered on more than one occasion. I have see azzhats throwing out all kinds of BS to the Police, just daring them to try and arrest them, then suddenly comply when they have seen the taser come out of the holster.

But, if it looks like they will resist, you can one-up their force right away, you would just have to explain it. It is completely justifiable, if someone is closing the gap on you saying I am going to kick your a55, or if someone is trying to break away from you, to light them up with a taser before they actually touch you.

Some people, and not just drunks and people on mind-altering drugs, just cannot be reasoned with.

Edited September 3, 2014 by 10512

[BFD1054 1,552]

A co-worker first showed me this video yesterday and my first feeling was that these Troopers showed great restraint.

As 10512 touched on, there is a use of force guideline that LEO's follow. This guideline can and will change somewhat rapidly for LEOs and they must know how to properly escalate and de-escalate through these steps (hands, OC, etc).

From what I gather, NYSP units were called to this area for a fight in progress or something along those lines. The subject in the video had just assaulted 2 people with a 2x4, which I believe is assault with a deadly weapon (LEOs please correct me if I am wrong).

The subject also appeared to have some injuries and the Troopers first priority was to check his injuries and to assure he was ok. It was only AFTER he refused numerous orders and became combatant that the Troopers went hands-on.

I feel like they could have justifiably been more "aggressive," even earlier on, but gave this guy plenty of chances. That right there shows great restraint.

Had the Troopers rolled up while this guy was still armed with the 2x4, things may have been different. Had that been the case, they very well would have drawn down on him with their sidearms. Had that occurred and he made the mistake of going toward the Troopers in an aggressive manor and refused to drop the 2x4, he very well could have found himself on the wrong end of 2 Glock 45 caliber handguns. Thankfully for all involved, this was not the case.

I say hats off to these Troopers and I can only hope that they were not injured.

[16fire5 693]

My only question is did they let it go on too long? If this video was used for training would instructors recommend taking more swift action? I would say the longer it goes on the greater the chance of all kinds of bad things happening.

Unfortunately current events have police being vilified for the SI incident. It's probably encouraging people to resist.

I'd just hate to see LEO getting hurt because the court of public opinion can't stomach what proper use of force looks like.

[RES24CUE 168]

Once upon a time there was a level of decorum that existed between the public and LEOs. Officers knew the people in their town, their demeanor, and their tendencies, and could diffuse virtually any situation with a conversation and some sound reason. It is a shame that "Protect and Serve" has been replaced by "Command and Tase." I guess we need extremes like the protests that occurred in Furguson, MO to combat the other extreme, the one being vocalized on this very thread. It seems that the Emtbravo "Fan Club" has taken the position of "whatever these cops do to this guy he had it coming." I know I would be pretty pissed if some degenerate with a High School diploma and a badge on his chest were screaming in my face like the trooper was doing to the "perp" in this video. Regardless of this guy's criminal history and whatever act brought the police there that day, these Super Troopers seemed a little too jacked-up on Mountain Dew and quick to that taser trigger for me to condone any of their actions. I know I didn't see what happened before the video started and can't prove that this guy didn't have it coming...but none of you did either and you can't prove that he did...From what I have seen here, the treatment this guy got didn't match the resistance.

[INIT915 1,119]

My only question is did they let it go on too long? If this video was used for training would instructors recommend taking more swift action? I would say the longer it goes on the greater the chance of all kinds of bad things happening.

Unfortunately current events have police being vilified for the SI incident. It's probably encouraging people to resist.

I'd just hate to see LEO getting hurt because the court of public opinion can't stomach what proper use of force looks like.

And that basically sums it up. In the eyes of the general public, if the officers act too quickly, they are faulted for not letting the situation self-defuse. If they wait too long to act in hopes the situation self-defuses, they are faulted. It's a lose-lose proposition.

[M' Ave 1,466]

Really? The hat was making it difficult to subdue the guy? Were his socks making it difficult as well? The people on this site are so brainwashed in favor of fire, ems, and law enforcement that these cops could have shot this guy while he was laying in the street and they would still be patting these guys on the back in this thread! I just love how long it took for two well-trained law enforcement professionals to take one disorderly moron into custody! What did they even stop him for? J walking? Suspicious activity? Even though they outnumbered him two to one it took kicks to the head, pepper spray, and a taser in addition to 45 seconds of wrestling this guy to get him into custody. I just hope the liberal media gets this video front and center on the morning news tomorrow and we'll see what the public thinks about the actions of these troopers and not just the fan club here on this site! My vote is that their actions were egregious...as usual! Police view the public as the enemy! The old mentality of "protect and serve" is nonexistent nowadays! It's been changed to "command and taze."

Once upon a time there was a level of decorum that existed between the public and LEOs. Officers knew the people in their town, their demeanor, and their tendencies, and could diffuse virtually any situation with a conversation and some sound reason. It is a shame that "Protect and Serve" has been replaced by "Command and Tase." I guess we need extremes like the protests that occurred in Furguson, MO to combat the other extreme, the one being vocalized on this very thread. It seems that the Emtbravo "Fan Club" has taken the position of "whatever these cops do to this guy he had it coming." I know I would be pretty pissed if some degenerate with a High School diploma and a badge on his chest were screaming in my face like the trooper was doing to the "perp" in this video. Regardless of this guy's criminal history and whatever act brought the police there that day, these Super Troopers seemed a little too jacked-up on Mountain Dew and quick to that taser trigger for me to condone any of their actions. I know I didn't see what happened before the video started and can't prove that this guy didn't have it coming...but none of you did either and you can't prove that he did...From what I have seen here, the treatment this guy got didn't match the resistance.

I approved your comments because I didn't think they needed censoring......ignorance isn't against the rules. But....boy are you wrong.

I can only hope that someday you need LE assistance and they have to take an overly cautious approach, thanks to needless criticism from people, like yourself, who are in no position to question the actions of those who's shoes they've never had to fill.

In this video, I saw a constructive, calculated and restrained response that led to the apprehension of some moron who didn't listen to lawful order. He's lucky he didn't get roughed up worse and that level heads prevailed.

[10512 214]

Once upon a time there was a level of decorum that existed between the public and LEOs. Officers knew the people in their town, their demeanor, and their tendencies, and could diffuse virtually any situation with a conversation and some sound reason. It is a shame that "Protect and Serve" has been replaced by "Command and Tase." I guess we need extremes like the protests that occurred in Furguson, MO to combat the other extreme, the one being vocalized on this very thread. It seems that the Emtbravo "Fan Club" has taken the position of "whatever these cops do to this guy he had it coming." I know I would be pretty pissed if some degenerate with a High School diploma and a badge on his chest were screaming in my face like the trooper was doing to the "perp" in this video. Regardless of this guy's criminal history and whatever act brought the police there that day, these Super Troopers seemed a little too jacked-up on Mountain Dew and quick to that taser trigger for me to condone any of their actions. I know I didn't see what happened before the video started and can't prove that this guy didn't have it coming...but none of you did either and you can't prove that he did...From what I have seen here, the treatment this guy got didn't match the resistance.

What EMTBravo Fan Club?

Do you think if the cops asked this guy politely this whole incident would have been avoided?

This incident started with a felon hitting people with a 2x4. That info comes from witnesses, not the cops. Something tells me the perp was not interested in being civil about his encounters that afternoon.

Sorry to inform you, but his actions set the tone.

Your statement "I guess we need extremes like the protests that occurred in Furguson, MO to combat the other extreme, the one being vocalized on this very thread", is probably one of the more asinine statements I have read on this forum. But, your comment describing the Trooper as a degenerate with a High School diploma and a badge on his chest speaks volumes about where you are coming from.

...and FYI, Troopers do not wear badges on their chest.

Edited September 4, 2014 by 10512

[Pagers 197]

Great job by the 2 troopers in subduing the suspect and making the arrest. Also agree with everyone else about removing the hat so the use of OC spray could be used and if there were any danger in using hands to remove the hat the foot would be the next thing to use. Also I rarely ever see OC spray used anymore unless it is by an officer that does not carry a taser and looking at these Troopers I can see they both had one. But I'm not an expert of the training methods of the state police, I just watch cops all the time, hahahahaha.

[Dinosaur 844]

Really? The hat was making it difficult to subdue the guy? Were his socks making it difficult as well? The people on this site are so brainwashed in favor of fire, ems, and law enforcement that these cops could have shot this guy while he was laying in the street and they would still be patting these guys on the back in this thread! I just love how long it took for two well-trained law enforcement professionals to take one disorderly moron into custody! What did they even stop him for? J walking? Suspicious activity? Even though they outnumbered him two to one it took kicks to the head, pepper spray, and a taser in addition to 45 seconds of wrestling this guy to get him into custody. I just hope the liberal media gets this video front and center on the morning news tomorrow and we'll see what the public thinks about the actions of these troopers and not just the fan club here on this site! My vote is that their actions were egregious...as usual! Police view the public as the enemy! The old mentality of "protect and serve" is nonexistent nowadays! It's been changed to "command and taze."

Once upon a time there was a level of decorum that existed between the public and LEOs. Officers knew the people in their town, their demeanor, and their tendencies, and could diffuse virtually any situation with a conversation and some sound reason. It is a shame that "Protect and Serve" has been replaced by "Command and Tase." I guess we need extremes like the protests that occurred in Furguson, MO to combat the other extreme, the one being vocalized on this very thread. It seems that the Emtbravo "Fan Club" has taken the position of "whatever these cops do to this guy he had it coming." I know I would be pretty pissed if some degenerate with a High School diploma and a badge on his chest were screaming in my face like the trooper was doing to the "perp" in this video. Regardless of this guy's criminal history and whatever act brought the police there that day, these Super Troopers seemed a little too jacked-up on Mountain Dew and quick to that taser trigger for me to condone any of their actions. I know I didn't see what happened before the video started and can't prove that this guy didn't have it coming...but none of you did either and you can't prove that he did...From what I have seen here, the treatment this guy got didn't match the resistance.

I don't know where you live or why you have such a big axe to grind but you're obviously just anti-law enforcement. This was a felony assault suspect and the trooper was smart enough not to go hands-on until a back-up arrived (smart decision number 1). They used restraint and attempted to take him into custody using a minimal amount of force (smart again). Then as he resisted they escalated the force and successfully got him into custody (smart yet again). Not bad for a couple of hyper-caffeinated high school grads, huh?

He fought with the troopers and they escalated the force to get him into cuffs. The treatment this guy got he brought on himself.

The first trooper was trying to talk him down and that failed so your defuse virtually any situation theory goes right out the window. If they were quick to the taser trigger there would have been a lot less video to watch.

I didn't see any screaming in the video. Calling the troopers "degenerates with a high school diploma" and "Super Troopers" and "jacked up on mountain dew" is just disrespectful and uncalled for but you're entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it may be. Suggesting that rioting and looting is somehow similar or equal to this discussion illustrates just how ignorant you are but the great thing about this country is you're still able to voice this childish rhetoric.

How many tickets have you gotten that make you so bitter and hostile toward the police anyway?

As you say in your signature, these opinions are mine and mine alone and also protected by the first amendment.

[INIT915 1,119]

In line with the dangers of this career -- http://www.timesunion.com/news/crime/article/Police-officer-fatally-shot-in-upstate-NY-5732931.php#photo-6811365

While some on this forum probably don't see this as a tragedy, I believe most do and will.

[SOUSGT 357]

Once upon a time there was a level of decorum that existed between the public and LEOs. Officers knew the people in their town, their demeanor, and their tendencies, and could diffuse virtually any situation with a conversation and some sound reason. It is a shame that "Protect and Serve" has been replaced by "Command and Tase." I guess we need extremes like the protests that occurred in Furguson, MO to combat the other extreme, the one being vocalized on this very thread. It seems that the Emtbravo "Fan Club" has taken the position of "whatever these cops do to this guy he had it coming." I know I would be pretty pissed if some degenerate with a High School diploma and a badge on his chest were screaming in my face like the trooper was doing to the "perp" in this video. Regardless of this guy's criminal history and whatever act brought the police there that day, these Super Troopers seemed a little too jacked-up on Mountain Dew and quick to that taser trigger for me to condone any of their actions. I know I didn't see what happened before the video started and can't prove that this guy didn't have it coming...but none of you did either and you can't prove that he did...From what I have seen here, the treatment this guy got didn't match the resistance.

Me thinks you watched too many episodes of the Andy Griffith show on TV. Mayberry only exists on TV in the 60s..Everyone encountered by the police reacts differently. However, you pick up on one thing that is correct; The perp does have a lot of control over what happens to him. If he submits than there should be no further use of force. If he fights then the police have an absolute right to defend themselves. What happened before the video starts is irrelevant with one exception: the subject was going to be arrested. Once the subject started to resist, the use of force by the troopers went up as the resistance on the part of the subject increased. But the amount of forced used increased only to the extent needed to overcome the amount of resistance on the part of the subject. Further, the video shows that the use of force stopped when the suspect stopped using force on the troopers. If you consider these officers to be Super Troopers jacked-up on Mountain Dew then it appears that you may have spent too long in Colorado.

[ex-commish 490]

t

Really? The hat was making it difficult to subdue the guy? Were his socks making it difficult as well? The people on this site are so brainwashed in favor of fire, ems, and law enforcement that these cops could have shot this guy while he was laying in the street and they would still be patting these guys on the back in this thread! I just love how long it took for two well-trained law enforcement professionals to take one disorderly moron into custody! What did they even stop him for? J walking? Suspicious activity? Even though they outnumbered him two to one it took kicks to the head, pepper spray, and a taser in addition to 45 seconds of wrestling this guy to get him into custody. I just hope the liberal media gets this video front and center on the morning news tomorrow and we'll see what the public thinks about the actions of these troopers and not just the fan club here on this site! My vote is that their actions were egregious...as usual! Police view the public as the enemy! The old mentality of "protect and serve" is nonexistent nowadays! It's been changed to "command and taze."

Have you ever had to restrain someone who is resisting and combative? Good job troopers!!!

[CleverName 0]

What's up with the third trooper saying you can't video? I love how they just make s*** up. What lame reason did he give?

[INIT915 1,119]

What's up with the third trooper saying you can't video? I love how they just make shit up. What lame reason did he give?

Well, I relistened and all I hear is the recorder say "I can record" and the Trooper appears to say "You can" or possibly "Yes, you can." The Trooper doesn't appear to say anything directing him not to record, nor does he even engage him in any conversation, so.... There is no indication the Trooper said or took any action precluding recording. The Trooper is even walking away from the guy recording as he passes him.

I'm not sure why some people go out of their way to assume the cops are wrong, when there is no evidence to substantiate that, and even in this case evidence to the contrary.

Unreal.

[ex-commish 490]

Well, I relistened and all I hear is the recorder say "I can record" and the Trooper appears to say "You can" or possibly "Yes, you can." The Trooper doesn't appear to say anything directing him not to record, nor does he even engage him in any conversation, so.... There is no indication the Trooper said or took any action precluding recording. The Trooper is even walking away from the guy recording as he passes him.

I'm not sure why some people go out of their way to assume the cops are wrong, when there is no evidence to substantiate that, and even in this case evidence to the contrary.

Unreal.

Because there is an anti-cop sentiment that is growing thanks to the left wing media...

[CleverName 0]

Well, I relistened and all I hear is the recorder say "I can record" and the Trooper appears to say "You can" or possibly "Yes, you can." The Trooper doesn't appear to say anything directing him not to record, nor does he even engage him in any conversation, so.... There is no indication the Trooper said or took any action precluding recording. The Trooper is even walking away from the guy recording as he passes him.

I'm not sure why some people go out of their way to assume the cops are wrong, when there is no evidence to substantiate that, and even in this case evidence to the contrary.

Unreal.

Not really "unreal." I listened to the recording and my take was the cop said "you can't record" and the photographer disagreed and said "I CAN record." How about the person who posted the movie chime in and tell us what the officer said?

I'm neither anti-officer nor left-wing-media influenced. But nice try. Some folks just want to make a political statement where it doesn't exist.

[FFEMT150 214]

I live down the road from where this incident occurred. First let me say that the suspect is known to some of us intown an is not exactly a model citizen. Secondly, after speaking to a friend who was standing next to the young man who recorded the video, the trooper did say that he couldn't record. After he said that he could the trooper said "yeah, you're right" and moved on. As for the anti-police statements, SP cortlandt are some of the best LEOs I have met. They are fair and polite to everyone they encounter. I have only seen them use force during an arrest a handful of times in my 13 year career in emergency services. According to the witness I spoke to this individual struck the trooper before record was even pressed.