Residential Natural Gas Related Incidents

[x635 4,066]

Is it just me, or does it seem that residential natural gas incidents are on the rise?

http://news.yahoo.com/four-dead-paris-suburb-building-explosion-200657554.html

It seems like natural gas incidents are on par with the amount of calls for residential or commercial alarms nowadays. And it seems we've had building explosions like the one linked above more frequently.

Maybe one of our members who's been in the fire service for a while can tell me whether natural gas calls are on the rise?

[Dinosaur 844]

Seems to me that gas investigations/leak calls have been more frequent since the Harlem explosion and building collapse this winter. I don't know if there are more actual explosions though.

I know there has been more awareness done about gas leaks and what to do by our local utilities (I hear the commercials/PSA's all the time).

I have no idea whether any of this applies to France.

[x635 4,066]

Seems to me that gas investigations/leak calls have been more frequent since the Harlem explosion and building collapse this winter. I don't know if there are more actual explosions though.

That's what I thought as well. Doesn't Con Ed have a more stringent protocol of calling for the FD sooner as a result of that incident?

[Bnechis 3,961]

That's what I thought as well. Doesn't Con Ed have a more stringent protocol of calling for the FD sooner as a result of that incident?

Negative. The protocol went into effect about 2 years ago after a major incident in Queens that occurred on Oct. 26 2009.

In that incident a gas leak in the street followed pipes into multiple homes and built up till it was in the explosive range and found an ignition source.

[SECTMB 612]

Go Modern, Go Gas, Go Boom.

[gss131 212]

Thanks to "Do it yourself" outlets like Home Depot,Lowes etc. , you should expect a rise in gas as well as CO mishaps. They have dumbed down the plumbing trade so much , any shmoe can try his luck at gas piping. They are now selling gas flex over the counter so long as the customer bullsh*ts about their competency.

[16fire5 693]

Negative. The protocol went into effect about 2 years ago after a major incident in Queens that occurred on Oct. 26 2009.

In that incident a gas leak in the street followed pipes into multiple homes and built up till it was in the explosive range and found an ignition source.

In the city of New York Con Ed is now sending us to more reported leaks they receive since the Harlem Explosion. Based on the city hall hearings after Harlem they had between 30 and 50 thousand reported gas leaks that they did not pass on to us last year that I believe they are now giving us every one. While our responses are way up I think the number of actual leaks is probably steady. Many of the calls that are part of the spike are turning out to be odors other than natural gas. It would not be surprising to me if an analysis of gas leaks responses revels they are on the rise. While the utilities do attempt to replace the infrastructure there remains a lot of old pipes in the ground and winters here are tough.

[50-65 205]

Thanks to "Do it yourself" outlets like Home Depot,Lowes etc. , you should expect a rise in gas as well as CO mishaps. They have dumbed down the plumbing trade so much , any shmoe can try his luck at gas piping. They are now selling gas flex over the counter so long as the customer bullsh*ts about their competency.

Not to get too far off topic, but I don't know how they can sell that stuff. To me it seems like they are inviting a lawsuit. I predominately work with Gas Tite branded CSST and my supplier won't sell it unless you show your certification card. You have to take a class from the mfr's rep.

I know with natural gas the aging infrastructure is a significant problem. In my work however, it is mostly Johnny Fix It that causes the problems. I'm surprised that more people do not blow themselves up.

[E106MKFD 56]

In the city of New York Con Ed is now sending us to more reported leaks they receive since the Harlem Explosion. Based on the city hall hearings after Harlem they had between 30 and 50 thousand reported gas leaks that they did not pass on to us last year that I believe they are now giving us every one. While our responses are way up I think the number of actual leaks is probably steady. Many of the calls that are part of the spike are turning out to be odors other than natural gas. It would not be surprising to me if an analysis of gas leaks responses revels they are on the rise. While the utilities do attempt to replace the infrastructure there remains a lot of old pipes in the ground and winters here are tough.

I would imagine the higher call volume can be attributed to your Mayor and the PSA's the city has done in regards to the building explosion. The Harlem Explosion was 100% preventable since it was reported well after each resident of the building smelled the gas odor. After the incident I've seen PSA's saying if you smell something call 911 or call con Ed. If you believe it is gas call 911.

From the public eye the jump in call volume is understandable. If your government and emergency service agencies tell you how dangerous gas is and you see an apartment building blow up on TV I would probably call 911 too if I thought I smelled gas. I don't think Con Ed is just sending FD's so they aren't as swamped I think there have been a lot of calls that are categorized as serious in nature and they have the fire department respond in as well. The FD has lights and sirens and can mitigate an incident with proper training. Con Ed can sit in traffic for a half hour and hope the leak isn't filling up a building before they get there.

Is it annoying how many calls we go on for gas emergencies? Yes, of course! But if it means it gives a peace of mind to the public we serve and helps minimize the probability for gas explosions then it is worthwhile. Better safe then sorry.

[wraftery 1,275]

In older areas, natural gas distribution was low pressure. Gas suppliers have been changing the mains to high pressure which involves sliding plastic pipe through older galvanized pipe for building service. A gas leak in the street has the possibility of seeping through the space between the old pipe and the new pipe and entering the building.

This is not to say it's the cause of gas explosions or the possible increase in odor-of-gas runs. I just wrote this so you are aware of this possibility.

[S1720G 62]

In older areas, natural gas distribution was low pressure. Gas suppliers have been changing the mains to high pressure which involves sliding plastic pipe through older galvanized pipe for building service. A gas leak in the street has the possibility of seeping through the space between the old pipe and the new pipe and entering the building.

This is not to say it's the cause of gas explosions or the possible increase in odor-of-gas runs. I just wrote this so you are aware of this possibility.

Thank you.

[16fire5 693]

I would imagine the higher call volume can be attributed to your Mayor and the PSA's the city has done in regards to the building explosion. The Harlem Explosion was 100% preventable since it was reported well after each resident of the building smelled the gas odor. After the incident I've seen PSA's saying if you smell something call 911 or call con Ed. If you believe it is gas call 911.

From the public eye the jump in call volume is understandable. If your government and emergency service agencies tell you how dangerous gas is and you see an apartment building blow up on TV I would probably call 911 too if I thought I smelled gas. I don't think Con Ed is just sending FD's so they aren't as swamped I think there have been a lot of calls that are categorized as serious in nature and they have the fire department respond in as well. The FD has lights and sirens and can mitigate an incident with proper training. Con Ed can sit in traffic for a half hour and hope the leak isn't filling up a building before they get there.

Is it annoying how many calls we go on for gas emergencies? Yes, of course! But if it means it gives a peace of mind to the public we serve and helps minimize the probability for gas explosions then it is worthwhile. Better safe then sorry.

The PSAs are without a doubt part of the increased calls.

I'm not sure I agree Harlem was preventable since the only call for the leak was 22 minutes before the explosion. If Con Ed passed that call on the fire department would have arrived before the explosion but would not been able to prevent it since the leak was in the service in the street. It's very rare that an FD unit would shut off a curb valve and we don't have the ability to shut off a street valve.

My understanding of the change is as follows. Con Ed previously had a matrix that if they had a crew available to send to a reported gas leak they responded alone. They now request the FD all the time since in most cases we will arrive first and have metering equipment and the ability to mitigate to a certain extent.

[E106MKFD 56]

The PSAs are without a doubt part of the increased calls.

I'm not sure I agree Harlem was preventable since the only call for the leak was 22 minutes before the explosion. If Con Ed passed that call on the fire department would have arrived before the explosion but would not been able to prevent it since the leak was in the service in the street. It's very rare that an FD unit would shut off a curb valve and we don't have the ability to shut off a street valve.

My understanding of the change is as follows. Con Ed previously had a matrix that if they had a crew available to send to a reported gas leak they responded alone. They now request the FD all the time since in most cases we will arrive first and have metering equipment and the ability to mitigate to a certain extent.

As to the day of the incident itself you are right it would've been hard to prevent due to the large leak and undoubtedly there would have been many firefighter injuries or even death if the FD had been called. Where I feel it was preventable is that I remember hearing after the incident that people in the apartment building said they had gas issues before the day of explosion but were told not to report issues. If people report gas odors explosions like the one we saw in Harlem shouldn't happen (hence the big PSA).

Quote from Daily News: "The family lawyer said he intends to also name Con Ed and Quinones landlord in the lawsuit, because they had knowledge of possible gas leaks before the deadly blast." Link: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/uptown/east-harlem-building-explosion-survivor-reunited-firefighters-saved-article-1.1753482

The way I understood their matrix (Though I can be wrong) is that if they get a single caller gas odor complaint they respond alone but if they get a call from a reliable source or multiple calls that's when they call the FD. Maybe they have changed their SOG's to reflect that the FD will respond to everything or maybe they have different operations in NYC but I feel that a change such as a FD response on every call would be something the fire department would have been informed especially with all the training Con Ed does with local FD's.

There are bound to be leaks/odors especially how it has already been noted that some of the service pipes are so old and prone to leaks. But I am sure that the majority of these calls/increase stems from the public being cautious.

The Con Ed gas training says that you shut off the gas from the nearest source so first a kitchen stove, if not that then apartment service, if not that building service, and if not that the curb valve. It is rare the FD shuts a curb valve but they can do it and many are trained and have the gas keys to do it.

[Dinosaur 844]

I would imagine the higher call volume can be attributed to your Mayor and the PSA's the city has done in regards to the building explosion. The Harlem Explosion was 100% preventable since it was reported well after each resident of the building smelled the gas odor. After the incident I've seen PSA's saying if you smell something call 911 or call con Ed. If you believe it is gas call 911.

From the public eye the jump in call volume is understandable. If your government and emergency service agencies tell you how dangerous gas is and you see an apartment building blow up on TV I would probably call 911 too if I thought I smelled gas. I don't think Con Ed is just sending FD's so they aren't as swamped I think there have been a lot of calls that are categorized as serious in nature and they have the fire department respond in as well. The FD has lights and sirens and can mitigate an incident with proper training. Con Ed can sit in traffic for a half hour and hope the leak isn't filling up a building before they get there.

Is it annoying how many calls we go on for gas emergencies? Yes, of course! But if it means it gives a peace of mind to the public we serve and helps minimize the probability for gas explosions then it is worthwhile. Better safe then sorry.

A buddy of mine was Battalion 10 the day of the explosion and arrived as a second (maybe 3rd) due chief. I don't know how you can say the explosion was 100% preventable when neither the city or Con Ed had received any calls reporting it (the mayor said that in a press conference shortly after the explosion) before the call that morning. Thank GOD the FD didn't get their first or there may have been several injuries or deaths to our brothers.

[E106MKFD 56]

A buddy of mine was Battalion 10 the day of the explosion and arrived as a second (maybe 3rd) due chief. I don't know how you can say the explosion was 100% preventable when neither the city or Con Ed had received any calls reporting it (the mayor said that in a press conference shortly after the explosion) before the call that morning. Thank GOD the FD didn't get their first or there may have been several injuries or deaths to our brothers.

If an odor was reported by the public sooner (when first discovered) the explosion never would have happened. I wasn't inferring that if the FD were involved that it would have been preventable. I agree whole heartedly that it was a miracle they were not triggered for a response and were not on scene for the explosion (Ladder 25 was only blocks away on another run). Con Ed was currently responding to the gas odor which they stated in the news had only been received about 15 minutes before the explosion rather than when an odor was first discovered (That is preventable).

My point is that many in the fire service see these gas calls as unimportant and burdensome and though there has been a higher call volume and higher demand on the FD these incidents should be treated as a regular event. Same way you see tons of departments going code 3 to their frequent fliers and regular AFA's. If Con Ed changed their response protocols for an FD response for every gas odor then that is an issue but if we are looking at increased call volume due to current events, which seems more likely, then we should treat them as true emergencies.