(Updated) Sleepy Hollow passes on decorated Marine for police force....again

[AFS1970 504]

There is another aspect to this which has nothing to do with the candidate's military service. He is related to a town official. Lately many municipalities have enacted very strict anti-nepotism laws. Those that have not done so yet, will soon feel the pressure to. I can see board members, although I would not agree with it, passing over a candidate who while qualified was related to an official simply to appear that they do not support nepotism. This is almost the same thing as the politically correct crowd, who will go to great pains to appear to not do something that they really were never doing in the first place.

[M' Ave 1,466]

There is another aspect to this which has nothing to do with the candidate's military service. He is related to a town official. Lately many municipalities have enacted very strict anti-nepotism laws. Those that have not done so yet, will soon feel the pressure to. I can see board members, although I would not agree with it, passing over a candidate who while qualified was related to an official simply to appear that they do not support nepotism. This is almost the same thing as the politically correct crowd, who will go to great pains to appear to not do something that they really were never doing in the first place.

I agree there is strong antinepostism sentiment out there.......however, his sister the trustee, abstained from voting on the matter. This is all the avoidance I would expect.

[thebreeze 194]

I don't believe this has anything to with nepotism, in fact it almost seems to be the polar opposite. They are actively discriminating against him because they disagree with his sister's political views. In addition his sister recused herself from the vote in order to avoid casting the shadow of nepotism. Its hard to argue nepotism with the civil service system because there are published rankings. If they jumped over several candidates to get to someone's relatives that would be more representative of nepotism. The guy had the high score, he's qualified, he should be hired. As for the clown that keeps talking himself into a hole and says the mayor would laugh at me if I shared my opinion with him, try reading the story, the mayor wants this guy hired. It's just a few people playing petty politics that are holding this guy up.

[Dinosaur 844]

To echo thebreeze above.....he IS different. He served this country in battle and deserves to be treated with special regard. Your response is cold, callus and devoid of reasonable consideration. This is a man who is as qualified as all and more so than most, it would appear. If the board has a reason, beyond cold-calculated political retribution, let them voice it.

There will certainly be a legal battle here, which the village will lose. They'll suffer shame and a waste of tax payer dollars to boot.

My score on future promotional exams will certainly be eclipsed by those with Vet. credits and they'll be promoted before me. This is good and right, they are more deserving than I because they gave in a way I never have.

If you get a 95 on your next exam and a veteran gets an 85, you'll still be five points ahead and ranked higher on the promotional list. Does that make the vet more deserving of the promotion than you?

No he is not he no more special then any other person who studies to get a good grade. He got the top grade with his veteran credits and that's it. What about the others who got the same grade without them? Are they not important??? Should they not get the chance for the same job? You must not have a great career like me or most here and know how hard the work is to get it or how long you have to wait so maybe you should get over yourself.

Domenick

First, I work on the greatest job on earth, I'm blessed more than I could possibly imagine, my career is not the issue but thanks for talking out of your behind again. I will reiterate, yes he is more important than them, because while they, and you, and I, were home here enjoying freedom, he was overseas fighting for it. I worked my balls off to get my job, but I never begrudged a single person who went before me because they sacrificed their time and safety to fight for mine, and as I go forward I will applaud those who jump over me on promotion lists because of their veterans points. They DESERVE it, in fact they deserve more than this country currently gives them. The veterans points is a mere drop in a bucket for what they actually deserve. I'm over myself, I appreciate the value of others service above myself, whereas apparently you lack the ability to understand that you might not be the most deserving of something, guess you got jumped by a few vets at some point. Maybe you should have studied harder, been smarter, or served in the military and you wouldn't be so bitter.

Matt

THIS is the beauty of his service for our country. You can sit here and have opposite opinions and you're not imprisoned for it or dragged out and beaten or executed. THAT's what he served for!

I don't think you are fully comprehending what the situation appears to be.

I can't speak to the specific civil service laws involved in this situation, but yes, typically they allow for the selection of one of the top 3 candidates on the established civil service eligibility list. In smaller communities, that selection is typically made by the Mayor or City Manager type position depending on the political structure in place. I get the impression that their system is set up in a fashion that the board votes to confirm the Mayor's selection.

In this situation, it appears that this person was #1 on the eligibility list and WAS selected from among those 3 top candidates. He was NOT simply passed over for selection in favor of one of the other two top candidates. Civil Service testing is typically conducted by a Civil Service Commission which typically does not include local government officials such as Mayors and City Council/Board members. As such, they would not know if he had a "bad interview" unless they somehow "score" the interviews, but if they score the interviews, then it really isn't an interview, it's an oral test.

Since it appears that the board votes to approve the Mayor's selections from the Civil Service list, the board's involvement in the hiring process may actually take place beyond the confines of the Civil Service system. If that's the case, then this certainly wouldn't be a matter of being passed over in the pick one of the top 3 phase, but rather a deliberate decision to deny employment and he would have a pretty good case.

The enactment of Civil Service laws were a direct result of this kind of government misconduct in the hiring process. The reason they didn't approve his selection is so blatantly obvious, that even a blind person could see it.

I'm not really clear on your point but they only have to pick one of the top three candidates. They don't have to give a reason or "qualify" that decision.

This is a political decision. It really has nothing to do with civil service and if they really wanted to clear it up, they would have to go 1-2-3-4-5 and couldn't skip anyone.

[M' Ave 1,466]

If you get a 95 on your next exam and a veteran gets an 85, you'll still be five points ahead and ranked higher on the promotional list. Does that make the vet more deserving of the promotion than you?

How is this a productive question? We score exams, the higher score gets promoted. We've decided as a society to give some preference to veterans and that preference comes in the form of 5 extra points. So no, a vet who is still behind me with his points is not more deserving. A vet who scored equal to or 4 points less is. Are we now going to debate Vet. Credits?

No, we're not. We're debating the fact that someone (who is a seemingly over qualified veteran) was passed over for what might be nothing more than political retribution. We shouldn't debate this? We shouldn't ask for reasons and clarification? Why should anyone related to the civil service take this lying down. It could be you cheated with no explanation.....or a son or daughter. Why are we not defending this guy......

[mfc2257 464]

Why are we not defending this guy......

Amen

[16fire5 693]

As bad as this sounds I have faith that Sleepy Hollow's loss will be another department's big gain and this guy will land on his feet maybe someplace not so sleepy.

[FireMedic049 597]

If you get a 95 on your next exam and a veteran gets an 85, you'll still be five points ahead and ranked higher on the promotional list. Does that make the vet more deserving of the promotion than you?

You're crossing issues with this question and putting too much emphasis on the "deserving" aspect. His point was never that hiring and promotional selections should automatically defer to a vet simply because the person is a veteran. It isn't that a veteran is "more deserving" of a particular job than any other person, they are simply deserving of some additional consideration when it comes to governmental job opportunities. That consideration comes in the form of veteran points in the civil service process.

Let's say two people both score a 95, but one has vet points and that pushes their score to a 100 and is subsequently ranked higher on the eligibility list. If the selection comes down to those two people, then the veteran, based solely on the higher civil service ranking is "more deserving" of the job opportunity. Whether or not that veteran is truly "more deserving" on a personal level is irrelevant and that is pretty much the basis for civil service testing - to select people objectively rather than subjectively.

THIS is the beauty of his service for our country. You can sit here and have opposite opinions and you're not imprisoned for it or dragged out and beaten or executed. THAT's what he served for!

Yes, that is a wonderful thing.

I'm not really clear on your point but they only have to pick one of the top three candidates. They don't have to give a reason or "qualify" that decision.

I think your lack of clarity may be due to looking at the matter from the wrong perspective. As I already attempted to explain, once the civil service eligibility list is established and a position is going to be filled, the person to be selected would be one of the top three candidates on that list. The Mayor typically makes that selection and it appears in this situation, that he did in fact select the person in question. More than likely, the civil service aspect of the hiring process ended when he was selected. Having a legislative body like a city council or board of directors vote on the Mayor's selections is not a general civil service requirement.

The vote of approval from the town's board may be intended to serve as a sort of check/balance for the hiring process to help ensure that the Mayor chooses wisely. I get the impression that this vote has historically been a mere formality and the Mayor's selections do not usually get voted down. Unless their local civil service rules require the board's concurrence with the Mayor in order to select a person from the eligibility list, then the board's vote is not a matter of selecting one of three, but rather the confirmation of the one selected of the three candidates. If the board's vote was a matter of selecting one of three, then they would cast a vote for one of the three candidates rather than a yes/no vote on a specific candidate.

If their vote is not the actual selecting of the person from the list, then having a justification for their denial, especially in light of this not normally occurring, would be reasonable and wise.

This is a political decision. It really has nothing to do with civil service and if they really wanted to clear it up, they would have to go 1-2-3-4-5 and couldn't skip anyone.

You are correct, this appears to be a political decision to not hire this guy rather than a legitimate non-selection via civil service rules. If the board wanted to clear this up, then they would cite a legitimate reason for the denial. They may not need to announce it publicly, but certainly a notification to this person would be warranted. The absence of such an explanation only serves to support the belief that the board's actions were not appropriate.

[somebuffyguy 190]

I have a few questions about this that hopefully someone with more insight can answer. First, regarding Villages, how involved is the Village board usually in the hiring process ? I've always been under the impression that the department (usually the Chief) held an interview and passed their recommendations up to the Village board, who usually went along with the Chief's decision. Is it common for a Village board to outright disagree and vote against a Chief's choice for a position ? People here are making it out to seem he just didn't get picked and the department chose somebody over him, when really he was selected for the position and the board over ruled it.

Someone here had also suggested that with his score he should get picked up by another department. Besides County Police, how many departments don't use a residency list? Is it possible Sleepy Hollow is his only real chance ?

Edited August 15, 2014 by somebuffyguy