Eastchester FD Issues

[Bnechis 3,961]

Couldn't L-13 Become the mutual aid truck? It's just a change on paper isn't it? NRFD has always been a good neighbor to EFD. Theres no doubt about that. E24 and E22 go on mutual aid based on location. Couldn't the same thing be done with the trucks too?

Any rig could be mutual aid but they generally are not. E-24 almost never has gone mutual aid. E22 & L12 are it because of standards of cover. Its not just on paper. If L-13 goes then 75% of our city is left uncovered until we relocate L-12 to station #3. So until we do what is done in many other places like MD, VA, OR, MI, WI, CA and drop boarders and do closest unit responses this is what works best for our community.

[Bnechis 3,961]

im with you brother new NRFD and WPFD had it under control 100%.the freelancing has to stop!

Thanks.

The only way that type of freelancing stops is with strong Incident command which is almost non-existing in Westchester. Once the lead agency gets things established at an incident, Set up a hot zone, do a PAR check and if personnel are in the zone that do not belong ask them to go back to staging. If that does not resolve it ask for a supervisor from their agency to respond to the CP.

[Bottom of Da Hill 76]

Thanks.

The only way that type of freelancing stops is with strong Incident command which is almost non-existing in Westchester. Once the lead agency gets things established at an incident, Set up a hot zone, do a PAR check and if personnel are in the zone that do not belong ask them to go back to staging. If that does not resolve it ask for a supervisor from their agency to respond to the CP.

then we get the this is a crime scene and we our now taken over.but i agree with you and a great job was done in rye trench call.a strong incident command system and team work go,s along way,

[Dinosaur 844]

then we get the this is a crime scene and we our now taken over.but i agree with you and a great job was done in rye trench call.a strong incident command system and team work go,s along way,

Then after the job the powers to be have to get together and hammer out the issue(s). The "crime scene" card can only be used so often before it's a case of chicken little. And what crime are we talking about? Labor laws? OSHA regulations? NYS Codes? Since when do the cops ever investigate those and declare crime scenes.

If we are all going to do ICS, then there is no trump card like crime scene or potential fire so the chief's always in charge. We have to stop all the rhetoric and just do the job. It works well elsewhere, why can't it work here!

[NorthEndExpress 54]

Freelancing, pulmonary tests, and other things being discussed have no relevance to the situation in Eastchester. The Commissioner's are allowing browning out a very much needed company on a regular basis. When it is in service, it's staffed with only 2 guys most of the time. To top it off, Ladder 17 is always breaking down or having issues with the aerial. The amount of money being put in for repairs is ridiculous, and is enough where it would be cheaper to buy a new truck.

There are many ladder companies that can come in on mutual aid. That doesn't matter though, since Eastchester residents are paying for a fire department and not getting one. The question that no one can get an answer to is where is all the money going to, since it's surely not being spent on staffing or equipment repair and replacement.

[FirNaTine 370]

But I thought M/A was the answer? Especially when guys come back on OT of an undermanned and ill equipped Dept. to help their neighboring struggling "Brothers" out next door who have been fighting the same issue for yrs. That's all Ive ever heard from my fellow Union Brothers, "Hey we're there for you guys just give us a call." LMAO! The chickens are coming home to roost!!! Gotta love the "Union Solidarity!" It's all bullshit fellows!

[TimesUp 148]

But I thought M/A was the answer? Especially when guys come back on OT of an undermanned and ill equipped Dept. to help their neighboring struggling "Brothers" out next door who have been fighting the same issue for yrs. That's all Ive ever heard from my fellow Union Brothers, "Hey we're there for you guys just give us a call." LMAO! The chickens are coming home to roost!!! Gotta love the "Union Solidarity!" It's all bullshit fellows!

But isn't mutual aid about helping neighboring departments out when they need help? Thats what I was under the impression it was for.

[Bnechis 3,961]

But isn't mutual aid about helping neighboring departments out when they need help? Thats what I was under the impression it was for.

This is right out of the Westchester County Fire Mutual AId Plan, Section 1 Purpose

"It is expected that Plan participants shall first expend and exhaust all of their own resources prior to placing a Mutual Aid request. Mutual Aid is intended to be reserved for extreme circumstances. It is not intended to be routine, nor should it become abusive or an unreasonable burden to the Fire Agencies providing assistance."

[FirNaTine 370]

This is right out of the Westchester County Fire Mutual AId Plan, Section 1 Purpose

"It is expected that Plan participants shall first expend and exhaust all of their own resources prior to placing a Mutual Aid request. Mutual Aid is intended to be reserved for extreme circumstances. It is not intended to be routine, nor should it become abusive or an unreasonable burden to the Fire Agencies providing assistance."

WOW! Seems to me many Depts across Westchester County then are abusing the s*** out of it both Career and Volunteer! If this is the case which Im sure it is many Unions should stop advocating their so called loyal Union members to stop coming back on OT to backfill for those Depts that are making cuts to manpower and putting Apps oos! Just a thought!

[TimesUp 148]

This is right out of the Westchester County Fire Mutual AId Plan, Section 1 Purpose

"It is expected that Plan participants shall first expend and exhaust all of their own resources prior to placing a Mutual Aid request. Mutual Aid is intended to be reserved for extreme circumstances. It is not intended to be routine, nor should it become abusive or an unreasonable burden to the Fire Agencies providing assistance."

That's all well and good Barry but when the bell rings and the guys in eastchester need help what are you gonna do? Copy and paste something that was written 20+ years ago. Times are changing.

[Bnechis 3,961]

That's all well and good Barry but when the bell rings and the guys in eastchester need help what are you gonna do? Copy and paste something that was written 20+ years ago. Times are changing.

I'm going to cover the taxpayers of New Rochelle, since that's what I swore to do. If Eastchester requests help and I am dispatched I am more than happy to go help.

This is the current mutual aid plan.

This was adopted by the County on December 19, 2012

[Dinosaur 844]

Times are changing? How? The abuse of mutual aid by many fire departments has been going on for decades. It's not always the same department(s) but it's always the same song. I've heard mutual aid for rubbish fires to warehouse fires in both volunteer and paid departments.

The bottom line is we keep ignoring the fact that only a couple of departments in the STATE comply with NFPA standards for minimum response and we allow people to believe that there is no problem when we are dangerously close to a major shortage of qualified firefighters in the region.

[NorthEndExpress 54]

Mutual aid isn't the problem. It's the people running the place. If they did their job and gave Eastchester the fire department the staffing and equipment they deserve instead of playing political games with the firefighters over what they are contractually due, then maybe Eastchester could get back to handling a room and contents fire by itself again.

This is what a memo from the Chief to the Captains (Shift Commanders) obtained by the Eastchester Press:

“Until further notice, the filling of overtime to cover sick leave or other non-scheduled absences shall require expressed authorization through the Chief of Department, and on a case-by-case basis.”

And a statement by a Union rep in the same article:

At full staff, there would be 75 firefighters including the chief, assistant chief, lieutenants and captains. Currently, there are 68 firefighters, and with an unexpected retirement, injuries on the job and a long-term illness, the number drops to 64.

Stewart said there needs to be 71 to have a sufficient staff and create overtime. He said it’s “dangerous” when the department falls under 70 active members.

From: http://eastchesterreview.com/union-firefighters-public-at-risk/

Still no mention of the equipment crisis.

[Bottom of Da Hill 76]

you need 75 FF.s to cover eastchester FD? seems like alot just saying.

[FirNaTine 370]

Maybe the Municipalities with the phony LODs(s*** load of!) should star putting the axe to the grind and punishing the MOTHRER FUCKERS! A lot of so called Professional FFs out there scamming the System! Big Reason why Management hates us and they don't want to hire more! Get some Balls Guys! Call the Scam Artists out for once!!!!!!

Edited August 4, 2014 by FirNaTine

[FirNaTine 370]

you need 75 FF.s to cover eastchester FD? seems like alot just saying.

Edited August 4, 2014 by FirNaTine

[WCFCX613 6]

I Worked As A Dispatcher For 32 Years, 24 With The New Rochelle Fire Dept. And 8 With Westchester County Fire Control And NEVER Realized The Waste Of Taxpayer Money Until I Moved To The Villages In Sumter County, Florida. This Affluent County 45 Miles North Of DisneyWorld Is Covered By Sumter County Fire-Rescue And ALL EMS And Dispatch Operations ( Police & Fire ) Are Operated By Rural-Metro. Our Localities Are Offered The Option Of Having Their Own Fire Protection Services And Certain Standards Have To Be Met. The Villages Is The Fastest Growing Metro Area In The U.S. And Will Hit 140,000 Population In 5-6 Years At It's Current Growth Rate. The Villages Developers ( The Morse Family ) Have A Fire Protection Assessment Added To Our Taxes, And It Is Added To Our Yearly Tax Bills. We Currently Run An ALL Sutphen Fleet Of 4 Engines, 1 Squad, 2 Mid-Mount Aerials And A 95' Aerial Tower. ALL Stations Are Strategically Placed For Response Throughout The Villages And 90% Of The Calls Are EMS. Each Station Has A Ford F-Series Quick Response Vehicle That Is Used By 2 Members Of Each Crew For EMS Responses, Leaving The Remaining Crew In Quarters For Fire Responses. After Comparing The Cost Of Fire Protection In My NEW County Of Sumter And OLD County Of Westchester I Would Advise The IAFF Unions In Westchester To Encourage Implementation Of The Westchester 2000 Plan Or Rural-Metro Will Be Making Inroads In Your Territory And Will Be Much MORE Successful Than The Rye Brook Fiasco A Number Of Years Back. They Are Already Formulating Proposals To Man Westchester County Dispatch Operations, So Beware My Friends, The Taxpayers In ALL Westchester Cities, Towns And Districts Are Looking For Dollar Saving Budgets That DO NOT BREAK The Bank !!!!!!

[NorthEndExpress 54]

you need 75 FF.s to cover eastchester FD? seems like alot just saying.

A lot based on?

You need to staff Engine 29, Engine 30, Engine 31, Ladder 16, Tower Ladder 17, and Car 2102 each and every shift You are going to normally have guys out on sick, on vacation, training, etc. It may seem like a lot, but it really isn't. And that figure still doesn't take into account proper and recommended staffing.

They need to figure out a way to make sure the guys out on extended disability doesn't affect staffing. But Barry may know more about this....departments may be bound by state law on these kinds of situation.

[efd184 59]

You can never have enough

[Bnechis 3,961]

Times are changing? How? The abuse of mutual aid by many fire departments has been going on for decades. It's not always the same department(s) but it's always the same song. I've heard mutual aid for rubbish fires to warehouse fires in both volunteer and paid departments.

The bottom line is we keep ignoring the fact that only a couple of departments in the STATE comply with NFPA standards for minimum response and we allow people to believe that there is no problem when we are dangerously close to a major shortage of qualified firefighters in the region.

You hit the nail on the head!

[Bnechis 3,961]

Mutual aid isn't the problem. It's the people running the place. If they did their job and gave Eastchester the fire department the staffing and equipment they deserve instead of playing political games with the firefighters over what they are contractually due, then maybe Eastchester could get back to handling a room and contents fire by itself again.

you need 75 FF.s to cover eastchester FD? seems like alot just saying.

A lot based on?

You need to staff Engine 29, Engine 30, Engine 31, Ladder 16, Tower Ladder 17, and Car 2102 each and every shift You are going to normally have guys out on sick, on vacation, training, etc. It may seem like a lot, but it really isn't. And that figure still doesn't take into account proper and recommended staffing.

They need to figure out a way to make sure the guys out on extended disability doesn't affect staffing. But Barry may know more about this....departments may be bound by state law on these kinds of situation.

Wow, you guys have run short staffed for so long you have not got a clue what proper staffing is. And I am not talking about this latest crisis. 75 firefighters lets see how short you really are........

To staff 4 engines (you mentioned 3, but don't you run 4), 2 ladders and a command unit to meet the minimum standards to respond to a 2,000 sq ft. single family house without a basement requires a minimum of 26 firefighters per shift. That 12 more than you currently run.

That gives you 3 firefighters and 1 officer on EVERY RIG.

To maintain 26 per shift you need 104 firefighters plus the additional members who are assigned to staff (training, codes, chief, etc.) you also need to cover contractual overtime which means each member would work an additional 20% or you need to go to 5.2 FTE's to staff your rigs, which would bring the total dept size to 135 (plus staff).

You are fighting for table scraps when you really need a steak diner. And you seem willing to accept the scraps.

And while you think you can handle a room & content fire under the "normal" staffing, you are cutting way too many corners and putting yourselves and the citizens at risk.

Now I can guarantee you will never see the numbers you should have. In fact I predicted 6 years ago that most of the career depts. were going to see staffing reductions and that we could either consolidate or each dept would suffer. I figured that we were spending the same amount of money to staff rigs with one or two as a consolidated dept would spend with 4 on a rig.

22 firefighters & officers on a response was what I proposed, and the response from almost everyone is we do not want that.

Now every one of the depts. is either fighting to survive (and I'm sorry but those that run with less than OSHA requires are not surviving) or has already faced the reductions (and more are coming).

Go read the NIST study's on staffing. They proved that fewer better staffed rigs do a better job than lots of understaffed ones do. They actually proved that 2 + 2 = 3

when 2 firefighter engines team up with another 2 firefighter engine, they are only as effective as a 3 firefighter engine and the standard says 4 minimum.

[TimesUp 148]

Times are changing. Whenever there is a budget shortfall the fire department is where they make their cuts.

Edited August 4, 2014 by ltrob

[TimesUp 148]

Where's the money going? Not to the fd

[FirNaTine 370]

Many Municipalities can, but refuse to comply. All you ever hear is" fires are down" from local Officials. Taxpayers want their garbage picked up and to feel safe so the DPW and PD don't take the hits as much when it comes crunch time.

[61MACKBR1 222]

Bring back "The Beast" Rescue 5 and Engine 28

[Bnechis 3,961]

Many Municipalities can, but refuse to comply. All you ever hear is" fires are down" from local Officials. Taxpayers want their garbage picked up and to feel safe so the DPW and PD don't take the hits as much when it comes crunch time.

Eastchester Fire District is not a municipality but the taxpayers can not on a per capita basis cover a dept that meets the standards.

On top of that the states tax cap is forcing communities to make cuts. these cuts will continue every year. This was also predicted and everyone said, oh no it will never happen or never effect my dept.

[FirNaTine 370]

Eastchester Fire District is not a municipality but the taxpayers can not on a per capita basis cover a dept that meets the standards.

On top of that the states tax cap is forcing communities to make cuts. these cuts will continue every year. This was also predicted and everyone said, oh no it will never happen or never effect my dept.

It all depends on the Municipality or whatever you want to call it. There's definitely some out there can meet the needs but choose not to. Many times it comes down to personalities and grudges. It's no different then one Business that thrives and another one that fails. Each Town/Village/City finances are different. Many Mayors and Town Officials get pretty pissed off when they find out a FF or Police Officer is making more then them and have a better Retirement Package and Health Care Benefit for only working a few days a week and then B-Jobbing the rest of the week. Especially when the Municipality has to pay into the Retirement System for each Civil Servant and then has to cover our illustrious 207a members retirement benefits in addition to having to hire new personnel to replace them and provide them with the same benefits. You can't expect a Community to keep raising taxes either to do this, putting the burden on many who have lost their own Jobs, House, Health Insurance etc.etc. Many of Joe Public out there don't give a rats ass about our Contracts or Union in general. Especially when they see a Civil Servant out on Disability living the Life of Reilly and may even be banging nails on a house next door to them or Volunteering in their home Town. That's if they even decide to stay around and don't pick up and move South or West where they will get more bang for their buck till age 70 tax free. We are our own worst enemy!

[capt2102 64]

I Worked As A Dispatcher For 32 Years, 24 With The New Rochelle Fire Dept. And 8 With Westchester County Fire Control And NEVER Realized The Waste Of Taxpayer Money Until I Moved To The Villages In Sumter County, Florida. This Affluent County 45 Miles North Of DisneyWorld Is Covered By Sumter County Fire-Rescue And ALL EMS And Dispatch Operations ( Police & Fire ) Are Operated By Rural-Metro. Our Localities Are Offered The Option Of Having Their Own Fire Protection Services And Certain Standards Have To Be Met. The Villages Is The Fastest Growing Metro Area In The U.S. And Will Hit 140,000 Population In 5-6 Years At It's Current Growth Rate. The Villages Developers ( The Morse Family ) Have A Fire Protection Assessment Added To Our Taxes, And It Is Added To Our Yearly Tax Bills. We Currently Run An ALL Sutphen Fleet Of 4 Engines, 1 Squad, 2 Mid-Mount Aerials And A 95' Aerial Tower. ALL Stations Are Strategically Placed For Response Throughout The Villages And 90% Of The Calls Are EMS. Each Station Has A Ford F-Series Quick Response Vehicle That Is Used By 2 Members Of Each Crew For EMS Responses, Leaving The Remaining Crew In Quarters For Fire Responses. After Comparing The Cost Of Fire Protection In My NEW County Of Sumter And OLD County Of Westchester I Would Advise The IAFF Unions In Westchester To Encourage Implementation Of The Westchester 2000 Plan Or Rural-Metro Will Be Making Inroads In Your Territory And Will Be Much MORE Successful Than The Rye Brook Fiasco A Number Of Years Back. They Are Already Formulating Proposals To Man Westchester County Dispatch Operations, So Beware My Friends, The Taxpayers In ALL Westchester Cities, Towns And Districts Are Looking For Dollar Saving Budgets That DO NOT BREAK The Bank !!!!!!

You are trying to compare an ADULT ONLY retirement community in sunny Florida to a congested NY county. You say you spent 30+ years as a FDNR dispatcher? You must know the area Eastchester FD serves. Do you think that 2 firefighters on a rig is a waste of money? I caught a fire the other nite on the 8th floor of a senior citizen apartment. 2 Eng. 1 Ladder and my Duty car : TOTAL 8 MEN. You pay low taxes because the Villages doesn't have to build or run SCHOOLS! Plus the SCAB labor of Rural Metro doesn't provide pensions to it's workers. I'm sure you retired in either Tier 1 or 2 of the NYS Pension system and every month you cash your check. Yet you defend Rural Metro and speak of wasteful spending and "Breaking the Bank". Shame on you, sir.

[16fire5 693]

You are trying to compare an ADULT ONLY retirement community in sunny Florida to a congested NY county. You say you spent 30+ years as a FDNR dispatcher? You must know the area Eastchester FD serves. Do you think that 2 firefighters on a rig is a waste of money? I caught a fire the other nite on the 8th floor of a senior citizen apartment. 2 Eng. 1 Ladder and my Duty car : TOTAL 8 MEN. You pay low taxes because the Villages doesn't have to build or run SCHOOLS! Plus the SCAB labor of Rural Metro doesn't provide pensions to it's workers. I'm sure you retired in either Tier 1 or 2 of the NYS Pension system and every month you cash your check. Yet you defend Rural Metro and speak of wasteful spending and "Breaking the Bank". Shame on you, sir.

I agree it's not an apples to apples comparison. I'm not 100% sure what he's talking abut but The Villages has a large stand alone department that is not run by Rural Metro and is an IAFF local, I believe the same is true for the County Fire Rescue. Rural/Metro replaced the county EMS organization after they went under a few years ago. As for Rural Metro pursuing large municipal fire contracts that does not appear to be the case. The company nearly went under itself. Their largest flagship operation (Scottsdale, AZ) became a municipal department.

[Bottom of Da Hill 76]

how meny runs and fires doe.s eastchester get a year? just asking.