Volunteer Grants by New York State

[EMTBrian 4]

There is a Fire District in the Hudson Valley of which I previously but no longer volunteer with for personal reasons that was awarded the Grant by New York State for the purpose of Recruiting and retaining volunteers. I'm speaking in the person of a "tax-payer" and feel this district may possibly be abusing the funds. The district in question of which city I wish to remain anonymous has used this money to 1) Hire paid recruiter/retention specialists, one whom quit several months ago, and about a month ago hired a Recruitment & Retention Coordinator. 2) Has been dispensing stipends for taking Firefighting Essentials. But for those wishing to take the EMT class are being told they would need to pay out of their pocket up front. When I was with this district the district paid. I had to have the Director of EMS sign and vouch for my eligibility. So long as organization was a PCR reporting agency the state absorbs the tuition, that's my interpretation of it, correct me if am wrong. My argument and question here, why are they only compensating volunteers that take the firefighting essentials, but not the members wishing to becoming NYS EMT's? The other stipend am concerned about of which had been dispensed was for taking the annual required OSHA training. Lastly, my concern is from several months back where I read the Asst Chief of the district would use grant money to absorb costs for advertising for volunteers. Just curious if all this is in alignment with the terms and agreements of the usage of grant money.

[EMT111 149]

In terms of the EMT payments, you are correct. As long as you are a member of an agency with a DOH number, and you pass the class, the class is "free", at least to you and your agency.

[EMTBrian 4]

No longer the case with this district. They're saying they have to pay the tuition up front. From what am also understanding, they highly prefer EMS volunteers to be certified EMT's currently working with agencies such as Transcare, Mobile Life, EMStar and NDP just to name a few. And giving preferential treatment to fire.

[AFS1970 504]

This seems more like an issue of priorities. I have seen fire departments that have EMS duties favor Firefighter training and even responses. I was once told by a senior member that I despite my being an EMT, and despite the department paying for my refreshers, that I was not bound to respond on EMS calls, even if I was in the building. I only HAD to go on fire calls. Why anyone would take this attitude is beyond me.

[EMTBrian 4]

I'm guessing for unforeseen reason's priorities within the district am speaking of, or perhaps may be in general are changing. But in my opinion here as I stated in my initial post, "speaking from a tax-payer" point of view, I need to speak up on these practices?

[Bnechis 3,961]

In terms of the EMT payments, you are correct. As long as you are a member of an agency with a DOH number, and you pass the class, the class is "free", at least to you and your agency.

"Free"....Maybe.

The DOH has a specific maximum amount that it will reimburse the training facility with, on a per student bases, if the student passes and their agency has a #.

The training facility is allowed to charge up front & reimburse you if you pass. The training facility may also charge more than the reimbursable rate.

So it might be free and it might not be.

[EMTBrian 4]

Let's not all stray from the topic here. I know what the stipulations are for the district to become reimbursed for those "successful" in the EMT. The problem is the the matter presented in the initial post and how this district is directing the monies. My concern or question here is, is it legal? Does it follow the guidelines for usage? That is the matter at hand here! Thanks for all the input folks!

[Bnechis 3,961]

. My concern or question here is, is it legal? Does it follow the guidelines for usage? That is the matter at hand here! Thanks for all the input folks!

How about you identify the grant? What entity gave them the grant?

I know FASNY has a grant for this, but have not heard of a "NYS" grant.

[Dinosaur 844]

Without knowing the terms of the grant and what the grantee is doing (generally reported periodically to the awarding body) with the funds it is impossible to answer your question.

Sounds like you suspect something is amiss. If that's the case, report it to the agency that awarded the grant and let them investigate. Last I checked EMTBravo isn't empowered to conduct investigations into grant practices.

[EMTBrian 4]

How about you identify the grant? What entity gave them the grant?

I know FASNY has a grant for this, but have not heard of a "NYS" grant. "FASNY" is the one. Pardon my not being specific here. I couldn't recall at the top of my head which one it was honestly. But yes this is the one.

[EMTBrian 4]

How about you identify the grant? What entity gave them the grant?

I know FASNY has a grant for this, but have not heard of a "NYS" grant. "FASNY" is the one. Pardon my not being specific here. I couldn't recall at the top of my head which one it was honestly. But yes this is the one.

Pardon, correcting myself here. New York State Department of Homeland Security & Emergency Services is the agency of whom department made application to and was awarded the

grant in the amount of $390,000.00 per letter to agency dated 4/9/2013.

[EMTBrian 4]

http://www.dhs.gov/news/2013/08/23/dhs-announces-grant-allocation-fiscal-year-fy-2013-preparedness-grants

[Bnechis 3,961]

Pardon, correcting myself here. New York State Department of Homeland Security & Emergency Services is the agency of whom department made application to and was awarded the

grant in the amount of $390,000.00 per letter to agency dated 4/9/2013.

http://www.dhs.gov/news/2013/08/23/dhs-announces-grant-allocation-fiscal-year-fy-2013-preparedness-grants

Ok that slightly narrows it down. Now which program?

Almost all of the programs do not appear to be eligible for this type of department or its program.

State Homeland Security Program (SHSP)—provides more than $354 million to support the implementation of state homeland security strategies to build and strengthen preparedness capabilities at all levels. The 9/11 Act requires states to dedicate 25 percent of SHSP funds to law enforcement terrorism prevention activities.

Urban Areas Security Initiative (UASI)—provides nearly $559 million to enhance regional preparedness and capabilities in 25 high-threat, high-density areas. The 9/11 Act requires states to dedicate 25 percent of UASI funds to law enforcement terrorism prevention activities.

Operation Stonegarden (OPSG)—provides $55 million to enhance cooperation and coordination among local, tribal, territorial, state, and Federal law enforcement agencies to jointly enhance security along the United States land and water borders.

Emergency Management Performance Grants (EMPG) Program—provides more than $332 million to assist local, tribal, territorial, and state governments in enhancing and sustaining all-hazards emergency management capabilities.

Tribal Homeland Security Grant Program (THSGP)—provides $10 million to eligible tribal nations to implement preparedness initiatives to help strengthen the nation against risk associated with potential terrorist attacks and other hazards.

Nonprofit Security Grant Program (NSGP)—provides $10 million to support target hardening and other physical security enhancements for nonprofit organizations that are at high risk of a terrorist attack and located within one of the 25 FY 2013 UASI-eligible urban areas.

Intercity Passenger Rail - Amtrak (IPR) Program—provides more than $9 million to protect critical surface transportation infrastructure and the traveling public from acts of terrorism and increase the resilience of the Amtrak rail system.

Port Security Grant Program (PSGP)—provides more than $93 million to help protect critical port infrastructure from terrorism, enhance maritime domain awareness, improve port-wide maritime security risk management, and maintain or reestablish maritime security mitigation protocols that support port recovery and resiliency capabilities.

Transit Security Grant Program (TSGP)—provides more than $83 million to owners and operators of transit systems to protect critical surface transportation and the traveling public from acts of terrorism and to increase the resilience of transit infrastructure.

[EMTBrian 4]

Bnechis,

Hopefully this will narrow down as to specifically which grant am speaking of or referring to. If not, this is all I was able to find. Or that had been released to the public at the time

it was shared with the media. http://www.dhses.ny.gov/media/documents/releases/Volunteer-Firefighter-Emergency-Services-Personnel-Recruitment-Retention.pdf If it still doesn't

I'm sorry, this is the best I could do.

[SteveC7010 58]

The only way to determine if the grantee is following the grant award is to review the approved grant application for that agency and compare it to their actual performance. So you have to find a copy of the final grant award for that agency that includes the final and approved application.

It does seem odd that they'd use the grant money for firefighter training but not EMT. But you'd have to look at the application to know if it is OK or not.

Same for your other issues. If the application included hiring a retention specialist and an advertising program, then it's OK as well.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Bnechis,

Hopefully this will narrow down as to specifically which grant am speaking of or referring to. If not, this is all I was able to find. Or that had been released to the public at the time

it was shared with the media. http://www.dhses.ny.gov/media/documents/releases/Volunteer-Firefighter-Emergency-Services-Personnel-Recruitment-Retention.pdf If it still doesn't

I'm sorry, this is the best I could do.

Yes, now I know what you are talking about.

This is a NYS grant that has nothing to do with the federal grants you posted the link to.

It is also not a "tax payer" funded grant. All of the money in this grant was donated by taxpayers who agreed to a smaller tax refund in order to fund this.

You also indicated that the award was for $390,000. That was the amount of all of the funds (that were donated to NYS) and given to 21 different organizations. The highest award was $25,000. Three FD's in Dutchess received, $13,000, $13,330 and $20,500 and a VAC in Putnam received $17,700 which is not a lot of $$$ to do recruitment & retention.

There is a Fire District in the Hudson Valley of which I previously but no longer volunteer with for personal reasons that was awarded the Grant by New York State for the purpose of Recruiting and retaining volunteers. I'm speaking in the person of a "tax-payer" and feel this district may possibly be abusing the funds. The district in question of which city I wish to remain anonymous has used this money to 1) Hire paid recruiter/retention specialists, one whom quit several months ago, and about a month ago hired a Recruitment & Retention Coordinator. 2) Has been dispensing stipends for taking Firefighting Essentials. But for those wishing to take the EMT class are being told they would need to pay out of their pocket up front. When I was with this district the district paid. I had to have the Director of EMS sign and vouch for my eligibility. So long as organization was a PCR reporting agency the state absorbs the tuition, that's my interpretation of it, correct me if am wrong. My argument and question here, why are they only compensating volunteers that take the firefighting essentials, but not the members wishing to becoming NYS EMT's? The other stipend am concerned about of which had been dispensed was for taking the annual required OSHA training. Lastly, my concern is from several months back where I read the Asst Chief of the district would use grant money to absorb costs for advertising for volunteers. Just curious if all this is in alignment with the terms and agreements of the usage of grant money.

It all depends on what the dept wrote in their application. If they wrote "stipend for fire training" and did not include "EMT training" then they are following the rules.

paying for a consultant or a coordinator sounds find, if it was in their application and advertising sounds like a way to recruit members, was probably in the application.

We are talking very little money that was NOT taxpayer funded. And NYS does very detailed audits of all its grant programs. The FD has to pay up front and get reimburse and if the dept. was spending a cent on anything not specifically covered in the grant, they will not be reimbursed.

Now the real issue is does any of this $$$ actually work to R & R. in the past most programs were a failure and a waste of funds. But in this case since it was not tax dollars wasted, I am not concerned with it.

[EMTBrian 4]

Bnechis

Confused now. I reviewed my original post and all subsequent responses I made, as well as others. I can't find where I mentioned or tied this into "Federal Grant?"

Appreciate, however, your explanation. I'm still not so sure, however, whether its 100 percent "voluntary" tax donations for tax break benefits of the donor. As opposed

to having some surplus of tax-payer money that perhaps goes into a general fund to help subsidize such grants.

Steve,

This district from what am understanding gives preference to take on current certified NYS EMT's whom are already working with Commercial Ambulance services

here in the Hudson Valley, so it relieves them of having to pay money out to send an eligible member to take the class. Maybe perhaps this organization has to do a

better job in clarifying and explaining this when the Volunteer Recruitment Interview committee interviews the applicant. This way applicant isn't wasting his or her time

and not disappointed down the road.

[SteveC7010 58]

http://www.dhs.gov/news/2013/08/23/dhs-announces-grant-allocation-fiscal-year-fy-2013-preparedness-grants

The link you provided yesterday in response to the question about which grant program we're discussing is clearly a Federal one.

[SteveC7010 58]

Steve,

This district from what am understanding gives preference to take on current certified NYS EMT's whom are already working with Commercial Ambulance services

here in the Hudson Valley, so it relieves them of having to pay money out to send an eligible member to take the class. Maybe perhaps this organization has to do a

better job in clarifying and explaining this when the Volunteer Recruitment Interview committee interviews the applicant. This way applicant isn't wasting his or her time

and not disappointed down the road.

Departmental policy and procedures are pretty much a totally separate issue from how the agency utilizes the grant money, especially concerning the specific concern you raise above. It's completely unrelated in this case.

[EMTBrian 4]

Departmental policy and procedures are pretty much a totally separate issue from how the agency utilizes the grant money, especially concerning the specific concern you raise above. It's completely unrelated in this case.

Steve,

I'm sure it's outlined and clearly states how the grant money can and can't be spent. If this is considered "public information" so as if I wish to inspect the documents, I just may go the extra mile

and do so. I'm not so sure I agree, which is as to why I question whether or not this district is not following the guidelines here. For 1) Why would they hire Recruitment & Retention Specialists & a Coordinator when actually I feel the line officers should take some ownership of and interest in and mentoring the volunteers. That in my opinion would be far more appropriate than having these specialists that really are doing none other than overseeing and following up on the applicant prior to their acceptance & being voted in, to make sure all the necessary paperwork is in order so they can forward it to the appropriate committee to be presented to the general membership. Secondly, Far as duties as it pertains to "retention?" They are nothing more than an ear to listen as to why member is considering leaving, is a liason between the member and which ever officers he/she speaks with to discuss matters in hopes of coming to a resolution. Again here to, I don't

understand why their can't be periodic dialogue between the member and line officers. This is why I feel this money is being used inappropriately. Secondly to use it to pay volunteers in

certain cases? Either the organization is paid or it's not.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Bnechis

Confused now. I reviewed my original post and all subsequent responses I made, as well as others. I can't find where I mentioned or tied this into "Federal Grant?"

Appreciate, however, your explanation. I'm still not so sure, however, whether its 100 percent "voluntary" tax donations for tax break benefits of the donor. As opposed to having some surplus of tax-payer money that perhaps goes into a general fund to help subsidize such grants.

Your PDF letter clearly states:

"Funding for the program is provided by New York State residents who have designated on their NYS income tax form that a voluntary contribution be made on their behalf for this purpose."

"And, most importantly, this is program where state residents generously volunteer to fund these organizations who daily make a difference in their communities."

Your Federal tie in was this post (below). I answered and asked a lot of questions based on this path, which had nothing to do with the grant in question.

http://www.dhs.gov/news/2013/08/23/dhs-announces-grant-allocation-fiscal-year-fy-2013-preparedness-grants

[velcroMedic1987 330]

Bnechis

Confused now. I reviewed my original post and all subsequent responses I made, as well as others. I can't find where I mentioned or tied this into "Federal Grant?"

Appreciate, however, your explanation. I'm still not so sure, however, whether its 100 percent "voluntary" tax donations for tax break benefits of the donor. As opposed

to having some surplus of tax-payer money that perhaps goes into a general fund to help subsidize such grants.

Steve,

This district from what am understanding gives preference to take on current certified NYS EMT's whom are already working with Commercial Ambulance services

here in the Hudson Valley, so it relieves them of having to pay money out to send an eligible member to take the class. Maybe perhaps this organization has to do a

better job in clarifying and explaining this when the Volunteer Recruitment Interview committee interviews the applicant. This way applicant isn't wasting his or her time

and not disappointed down the road.

Lots of agencies recruit or give preference to certified/experienced EMT's. Taking an EMT with commercial experience significantly reduces the time before they can fill a hole in your schedule.

Not sure what you mean about an applicant wasting his time or being disappionted down the road. Sounds like you need to voice your complaint/concern to the "recruitment/interview committee".

[EMTBrian 4]

Velcro,

It's simple. I will use myself as an actual situation. When I first joined Arlington Fire District, I was not a certified EMT, nor was I a certified First Responder. When the Interview Committee

first met with me they promised the world to me, (no exaggeration) that they would train me to start off as a first responder. And after so many months, put me through the EMT class. Well,

here is how the chips fell. They made a few announcements for a District First Responder Class, which was for Arlington, minimum requirement to go on actual EMS calls. Each time an attempt

was made to have a class, there was insufficient enrollment and interest. So obviously both classes and opportunities were cancelled. Meanwhile, months are beginning to pass me by, and

getting discouraged and frustrated. Finally yes was able to sign up for and was approved by the Commissioners to take the EMT Class. Yes I passed first time. Then I ran into another brick

wall, nobody seemed to want to train. There's your hint or key word as to what am talking about here Velcro, with regard to my comment, " Maybe perhaps this organization has to do a

better job in clarifying and explaining this when the Volunteer Recruitment Interview committee interviews the applicant. This way applicant isn't wasting his or her time

and not disappointed down the road. "

[AFS1970 504]

I am just guessing here, but if I ran a department that provided both Fire and EMS services, and I had some kind of grant money for firefighter training but not for EMS training, I would certainly look for certified EMT's that I could train as firefighters and not the other way around. This would seem to me to be the most cost effective way to accomplish the goal of having cross trained personnel. Now if two applicants came in at the same time and were essentially equal except that one was an EMT and the other was not, then I would expect the one who is not to have to wait until there were enough students to make hiring an instructor cost effective. This would mean that the EMT would advance within the department faster and most likely end up responding on calls before the other recruit. The recruit who is not an EMT would have the option of seeking out a class elsewhere, but as it was not department sponsored and not covered under the grant it would be at his own expense. No real problem with that as long as it is understood up front. If the non EMT recruit were already certified as a firefighter, it might seem that he was not being treated equally but in fact that would only be perception based on the limitations of the grant. Things will never be fully equal in any department because life isn't fair.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

Velcro,

It's simple. I will use myself as an actual situation. When I first joined Arlington Fire District, I was not a certified EMT, nor was I a certified First Responder. When the Interview Committee

first met with me they promised the world to me, (no exaggeration) that they would train me to start off as a first responder. And after so many months, put me through the EMT class. Well,

here is how the chips fell. They made a few announcements for a District First Responder Class, which was for Arlington, minimum requirement to go on actual EMS calls. Each time an attempt

was made to have a class, there was insufficient enrollment and interest. So obviously both classes and opportunities were cancelled. Meanwhile, months are beginning to pass me by, and

getting discouraged and frustrated. Finally yes was able to sign up for and was approved by the Commissioners to take the EMT Class. Yes I passed first time. Then I ran into another brick

wall, nobody seemed to want to train. There's your hint or key word as to what am talking about here Velcro, with regard to my comment, " Maybe perhaps this organization has to do a

better job in clarifying and explaining this when the Volunteer Recruitment Interview committee interviews the applicant. This way applicant isn't wasting his or her time

and not disappointed down the road. "

What does this have to do with grants?

Have you aired these concerns to the department/officers/committee/commissioners?

[EMTBrian 4]

Velcro, as I've already stated I'm no longer with Arlington. I left going on three years now. But no never did air my concerns with the commissioners. As it is I felt it would only make matters far worse than they already were. I did however voice my concerns a good number of times to the officer's. And hate to put and say it this way, fell on deaf ears. Almost every volunteer fire organization is either in whole or in part very political, as well as have their cliques and have and play with their favorites. Which this point alone in my honest opinion is why volunteer enrollment and retention efforts have been such a difficult task. It's already been stated by the Chief noted in the BOFC meeting minutes the disappointment in the efforts of Recruitment and Retention personnel that were hired several months prior. Unless and until they make the necessary changes internally from company politics, favoritism and so on, then why bother hire and pay people to do something the officers really need and should take ownership of? This is why I truly feel this grant money is being abused by this district.