Does "Nothing Showing" Mean Anything?

[x635 4,066]

I read an article a while back, pondering the term "Nothing Showing".

It was an interesting point, when you arrive, what does the term "Nothing Showing mean? Are you at a place at the structure where you can't see fire blowing out? Does your department say it after doing a walk around?

Now, there are departments that say "Nothing Showing, Investigating." Are you investigating nothing showing? Or would it be better to say "On Scene Investigating"?

Have you ever been to a fire where nothing was showing, and upon hearing that from the first due, become complacent that nothing was going on and let your attack readiness go?

There are a lot of factors in the response depending on this term, how do you or your department interpret it?

[Ladder44 73]

"Nothing showing means nothing."

[FireMedic049 597]

"Nothing showing means nothing."

Wrong!

"Nothing showing" clearly means that there is no obviously visible signs of a fire from the street.

I've been to a lot of fires in my 20+ years in the fire service and there have been very, very few instances in which there were absolutely no visible indicators of a fire of any significance upon the first unit's arrival. I would suspect that my experience is consistent with the vast majority of the fire service. I would submit that if 90+% of the time when you arrive, there is no visible indicators of a fire and subsequent investigation finds that there is in fact, no fire, then "nothing showing" clearly does mean something. The report of "nothing showing" would mean that there's a very high likelihood that there is not a fire of any significance in progress at that location.

Yes, there could be a fire hiding somewhere waiting to break out, particularly in a commercial building vs a SFD, but to take the stance that the lack of exterior visual clues is irrelevant is simply irresponsible.

The report of "nothing showing" or use of different terminology conveying a similar meaning is not where the problem lies. The problem lies with your personnel and leadership if they show up and are not ready for battle.

[FFPCogs 863]

While I can agree that "nothing showing" is a valid arrival report, I believe that "on scene investigating" is better terminology to use. The bottom line is until we get in and take a look we have no idea what is going on and unless we state otherwise it's a given that there is nothing showing...otherwise we would have said so when we arrived, wouldn't we? "On scene investigating" let's incoming units know that the situation is not yet under control and keeps them mentally in a state of readiness, it also clearly states what action we, as the first due, will be taking. I agree with Seth's point that saying nothing showing often times leads to complacency, and whether or not that's a training/leadership issue or not, it still happens...why invite it? Finally I'm not a fan of radio chatter...short, sweet and to the point is always better. We've arrived, we do not yet know the entirety of the situation or what may be needed and we are going to investigate to find out is all covered by the phrase "on scene investigating" without the potential of bringing everyone's guard down or reciting a novella over the radio. Years ago in my FD we were taught to never say nothing showing upon arrival, now maybe my view is a holdover from those days...or maybe we're just better served by simply saying investigating until we have done so and know there's nothing there before saying so.

Edited July 28, 2014 by FFPCogs

[RES24CUE 168]

I prefer "negative smoke or fire from the exterior." Less vague so nothing can be confused or misconstrued...

[antiquefirelt 994]

I prefer "negative smoke or fire from the exterior." Less vague so nothing can be confused or misconstrued...

We have on officer that uses something close to this. My question is can we not assume that an arrival report is "from the exterior"? Are we so scared of something that the details must be included? Are people confused that no smoke may still mean there's fire showing? Or is you report fire, must you also note the smoke? I actually don't care what is said, but I do like the same phraseology to be used by everyone in the same department, but that's just me. We use: "Nothing showing, will be investigating".

I think it has far less to do with what the words are, and much more to do with what those hearing the report do. I fail to see why reporting there are no visible smoke/fire conditions is a problem. Please enlighten some of us as to the issue?

Edited July 28, 2014 by antiquefirelt

[wraftery 1,275]

Wow! Here we go again.

It sounds like the first arriving officer should now say "Arrived at 100 Main Street I don't see anything but I'll have to investigate further because I can only see sides 1 and 2. Have incoming units reduce their response to non-emergency but they don't have to proceed with caution any more because those words trigger something in their brains and they may get into an accident. OOPS, I said sides1 an 2. For those of you who can't convert that, it's A and B. No signs of fire after my 360, but the neighbors keep pointing to the house across the street. Whoop, there it is."

Why not just leave it as "Nothing Showing"

[M' Ave 1,466]

The term n"nothing showing" is fine. Short sweet and to the point. It can be a helpful assesment in conjunction with other reports as well. Perhaps units operating at a 1sty. commercial taxpayer have a strong odor, an the OV Man gives a report from the rear that "nothing is showing", could it be buttoned up really tight? Could there be fire, just not visible, indicating that it is in an early decay (possibly very dangerous) phase?

Nothing showing is info, it means......there's nothing showing. At least for us, we wouldn't say "on scene, investigating", because they already know where on scene. Investigating, I'd think, is assumed. I don't think anyone's doing a cursory drive by.

[SteveC7010 58]

From a dispatcher's point of view, arrival size-up can be valuable. For example, if we know we received what sounded like a legit call for a structure fire, and the first unit on scene reported, "Nothing showing.", we would immediately initiate a rapid supervisor's review of the 911 phone call and ANI data. Excited citizens on untraceable cell phones give less than reliable info sometimes.

We also knew that "Nothing showing." was understood by all departments in the county to mean an initial, rapid size-up from the street as the first unit arrives, and that investigation would be initiated and a better report was to follow. Having a good definition of a phrase like this in place puts it in the right context.

[wraftery 1,275]

The term n"nothing showing" is fine. Short sweet and to the point. It can be a helpful assesment in conjunction with other reports as well. Perhaps units operating at a 1sty. commercial taxpayer have a strong odor, an the OV Man gives a report from the rear that "nothing is showing", could it be bottomed up really tight? Could there be fire, just not visible, indicating that it is in an early decay (possibly very dangerous) phase?

Nothing showing is info, it means......there's nothing showing. At least for us, we wouldn't say "on scene, investigating", because they already know where on scene. Investigating, I'd think, is assumed. I don't think anyone's doing a cursory drive by.

Thank you, M'Ave

[sfrd18 360]

I personally agree with M' Ave. Just saying "nothing showing" is short and sweet and to the point.

One could also say "nothing showing from the exterior".

[SageVigiles 1,194]

"Nothing showing" is fine, as long as we're including the building construction, whether or not the building appears to be evacuated, etc, as a part of our sizeup. The point of the sizeup is to paint an initial snapshot in the minds of those on incoming units, not to make a definitive prognosis of what's going on at the call. If an officer really that concept explained to them, maybe they don't belong in the front seat...

I do have to say though, its my favorite when people say "nothing showing" on a CO call.

[AFS1970 504]

The problem here seems not to be in what the initial arriving reports but how that is interpreted by other incoming units. If you become complacent it is your problem not the problem of the guy giving the size up. Remember complacency kills!

I will qualify that with a note about how information is relayed to us effecting our perception. Think about central station alarms. We all know that the false alarm rates are astronomincal. However the fire service definition of a false alarm is greatly different from the alarm industry's definition of a false alarm. For the most part they consider a false alarm as anytime they get the passcode from a keyholder, no matter where he is or what the situation is.

For years as a dispatcher I would relay to responding units that the alarm company was attempting to cancel. None of the departments in Stamford will cancel a fire alarm but most if not all will downgrade to a single engine based on that information. Then once as an officer in a VFD we had an incident like this wher ethe alarm company attempted to cancel, our first due engine canceled everyone else and were met by the homeowner who had given the code to the alarm company. The homeowner told them not to worry, it was only a small fire. Now it was very small and had no extension, but complacency drove the downgrade. It was a combination of misplaced trust in the alarm company by the dispatchers (something I no longer do) and complacency by responding units about alarm calls. THe outcome could have been worse.

It is how we interperate and react to incoming information that we need to fix because that is something we can do ourselves.

[M' Ave 1,466]

I do have to say though, its my favorite when people say "nothing showing" on a CO call.

Why? Being that it's a product of combustion......

That said, I don't think I've ever heard that used at a CO run.

[SECTMB 612]

"Nothing Showing" YET

[SteveC7010 58]

Why? Being that it's a product of combustion......

That said, I don't think I've ever heard that used at a CO run.

I did, lots of times during my career as a dispatcher. It was usually a result of a) overly eager to give an arrival and size-up or just plain force of habit, especially for some of the paid guys in the larger departments. Always good for chuckle, though.

[Pagers 197]

"Nothing showing" seems like a pretty universal size-up report and something that isn't really confused with anything. At least I have never heard any department in the area by me confuse that statement or do not know what it means.

[Ladder44 73]

"Nothing showing means nothing."

Wrong!

"Nothing showing" clearly means that there is no obviously visible signs of a fire from the street.

I've been to a lot of fires in my 20+ years in the fire service and there have been very, very few instances in which there were absolutely no visible indicators of a fire of any significance upon the first unit's arrival. I would suspect that my experience is consistent with the vast majority of the fire service. I would submit that if 90+% of the time when you arrive, there is no visible indicators of a fire and subsequent investigation finds that there is in fact, no fire, then "nothing showing" clearly does mean something. The report of "nothing showing" would mean that there's a very high likelihood that there is not a fire of any significance in progress at that location.

Yes, there could be a fire hiding somewhere waiting to break out, particularly in a commercial building vs a SFD, but to take the stance that the lack of exterior visual clues is irrelevant is simply irresponsible.

The report of "nothing showing" or use of different terminology conveying a similar meaning is not where the problem lies. The problem lies with your personnel and leadership if they show up and are not ready for battle.

I was just referring to this article I read in the past, that is all.......http://traditionstraining.com/nothing-showing-means-nothing/

[FireMedic049 597]

I was just referring to this article I read in the past, that is all.......http://traditionstra...-means-nothing/

It probably would've been a good idea to have posted this link initially or at least cited who the quote belonged to.

Regardless, the article is correct in that a scene can look benign upon arrival and quickly deteriorate. However, the scenerio presented only reinforces what I stated, the problem was how the personnel reacted to the initial report, not that the words "nothing showing" were used.

If using the term "nothing showing" is truly the problem and reason for complacency among additional responders to the incident, wouldn't it follow that any report on conditions short of "fully involved" also risk additional responders underestimating the severity of the incident if we're supposed to treat every report of fire/smoke in a building as the fire of our career until proven otherwise?