Two Recent Fires Highlight Volunteer Role

[Viper 139]

Two Recent Fires Highlight Volunteer Role July 11, 2014

Pushing back against misconceptions

By Michael Turton

Philipstown’s fire departments in Cold Spring, Garrison, North Highlands and Continental Village are used to facing some heat — though not always at a fire. Public debate over fire hall construction, municipal oversight, possible consolidation of services and fire company budgets has been red hot at times in recent years. But there was no debate about the value of local fire protection on Monday evening (July 7), when five area fire companies quickly responded and worked in unison to fight a blazing inferno at a home on High Street in Cold Spring.

Full article: http://philipstown.info/2014/07/11/two-recent-fires-highlight-volunteer-role/

[wcr20 17]

quoted from article - emphasis mine

"If there’s one thing Steltz, DiNardo and Smith all agree that the pubic doesn’t always understand, it’s that CSFC’s members are unpaid volunteers. “People think we get paid,” Steltz said"

I wonder if that's what he said...

[RES24CUE 168]

"A group of firefighters attempted to enter the house but were forced to turn back because the heat was so intense. Steltz called it the hottest fire he has ever experienced. “There was a lot of heat, a lot more fire than usual,” he said. No one was hurt. Residents Anne Impellizzeri and Dan Wright escaped injury but lost all their possessions."

I love creative writing!

"A group of firefighters attempted to enter the house but were forced to turn back because the heat was so intense."

• Surround and Drown!

"Steltz called it the hottest fire he has ever experienced."

• And the only fire he has ever experienced! (and yes I read that he was a past chief - still a possibility!)

"No one was hurt. Residents Anne Impellizzeri and Dan Wright escaped injury but lost all their possessions."

• The building was unoccupied upon arrival - No risk of life present!

This is bullshit...you can twist anything to make it worthy of publishing!

[50-65 205]

quoted from article - emphasis mine

I wonder if that's what he said...

About getting paid...? I can't tell you how many times people (general public civilian type) didn't know our local department was volunteer.

"A group of firefighters attempted to enter the house but were forced to turn back because the heat was so intense. Steltz called it the hottest fire he has ever experienced. “There was a lot of heat, a lot more fire than usual,” he said. No one was hurt. Residents Anne Impellizzeri and Dan Wright escaped injury but lost all their possessions."

I love creative writing!

"A group of firefighters attempted to enter the house but were forced to turn back because the heat was so intense."

• Surround and Drown!

"Steltz called it the hottest fire he has ever experienced."

• And the only fire he has ever experienced! (and yes I read that he was a past chief - still a possibility!)

"No one was hurt. Residents Anne Impellizzeri and Dan Wright escaped injury but lost all their possessions."

• The building was unoccupied upon arrival - No risk of life present!

This is bullshit...you can twist anything to make it worthy of publishing!

Bullshit and creative writing maybe. But unless I missed something, I didn't see anything about the building being unoccupied. Just that the 2 named residents escaped.

Of course, if they had been been a paid "Professional" department, their x-ray vision powers would have confirmed this.

[wcr20 17]

No - NOT about being paid...

I was revering to the fact that the PUBIC doesn't understand...

[wcr20 17]

OK, and I make my own typo in pointing it out

[BBBMF 158]

Positive publicity for the fire service and this turns into a heated battle?!!!! What the Funck!!!

And who cares if you're volley or paid. You're either a fireman or you're not! You either get it or you don't!

[99subi 121]

Positive publicity for the fire service and this turns into a heated battle?!!!! What the Funck!!!

And who cares if you're volley or paid. You're either a fireman or you're not! You either get it or you don't!

I couldn't disagree more. I know of more than a few guys who have ZERO business being in the "fire service" yet they are still considered "volly firemen" and they parade around on scenes dressed in half turnout gear doing absolutely nothing but getting in the way. In the professional world this is not tolerated.

Now before you freak out i will say there are MANY great volly firemen in this county and i RESPECT that greatly. Not to get way off topic here but ever think the vol fire service should be a little more selective when letting people "join" aside from just being a resident of that particular area and having a clean background?

[gamewell45 258]

I couldn't disagree more. I know of more than a few guys who have ZERO business being in the "fire service" yet they are still considered "volly firemen" and they parade around on scenes dressed in half turnout gear doing absolutely nothing but getting in the way. In the professional world this is not tolerated.

Now before you freak out i will say there are MANY great volly firemen in this county and i RESPECT that greatly. Not to get way off topic here but ever think the vol fire service should be a little more selective when letting people "join" aside from just being a resident of that particular area and having a clean background?

Let's be honest here and admit that there are people, both career and volunteer who have no business in the fire service. To deny that is being blatantly dishonest with yourself. In fact, almost every job, whether public or private sector have the same situation that is found in the fire service. Not all, but most firefighters, whether career or volunteer are professionals who do the best they can given the tools and training.

[50-65 205]

No - NOT about being paid...

I was revering to the fact that the PUBIC doesn't understand...

Same here. Sometimes they don't understand. Most of the time they just don't care. As long as SOMEONE shows up when they call 911.

Positive publicity for the fire service and this turns into a heated battle?!!!! What the Funck!!!

And who cares if you're volley or paid. You're either a fireman or you're not! You either get it or you don't!

Not a heated battle. I personally don't care. Some people have made firefighting a career choice, some haven't. Everyone for different reasons. I learned long ago that just because you do something for a living, doesn't really mean you can do the job. I'm just tired of those that think that because they get paid to do it, they are the only ones that can do it right.

I couldn't disagree more. I know of more than a few guys who have ZERO business being in the "fire service" yet they are still considered "volly firemen" and they parade around on scenes dressed in half turnout gear doing absolutely nothing but getting in the way. In the professional world this is not tolerated.

Now before you freak out i will say there are MANY great volly firemen in this county and i RESPECT that greatly. Not to get way off topic here but ever think the vol fire service should be a little more selective when letting people "join" aside from just being a resident of that particular area and having a clean background?

Completely agree. I have been an advocate of more selective "hiring" for years.

[RES24CUE 168]

[RES24CUE 168]

[nycmedic 65]

So its a no no when vollys take pictures at a fire but its ok when paid guy do it???????? Heck there are websites that show the almighys fdny grandstanding and taking company photos at a fire. But thats ok. I have more respect for people who do the job for FREE then somone who does it for the $$$ and 3/4.

[bad box 371]

So its a no no when vollys take pictures at a fire but its ok when paid guy do it???????? Heck there are websites that show the almighys fdny grandstanding and taking company photos at a fire. But thats ok. I have more respect for people who do the job for FREE then somone who does it for the $$$ and 3/4.

Are you a "NYC Medic"? If so, are you paid or volunteer?

[thebreeze 194]

So its a no no when vollys take pictures at a fire but its ok when paid guy do it???????? Heck there are websites that show the almighys fdny grandstanding and taking company photos at a fire. But thats ok. I have more respect for people who do the job for FREE then somone who does it for the $$$ and 3/4.

It's a no no when anyone, who is supposed to be operating at a fire scene, is taking pictures instead. Paid or volunteer, I don't think anyone is stopping during an operation to take group shots. If so shame on them. You obviously have an axe to grind with the FDNY but there's a legion of buffs who follow them around taking pictures, is that so wrong? No one is "grandstanding", and guys take pictures together after a job? There's nothing wrong with that on either side of the fence. You're ignorant if you think that guys are just out for 3/4, it's not an FDNY problem, there are just as many skells in every job, FD, PD, EMS, nameless other civil service jobs, and even the private sector who are just out to get theirs, to bilk the system and sit on their a-- collecting checks. I'm sure as a NYCMEDIC you see plenty of people abusing every system out there. Quit whining like you know what's going on if you want to ignore that larger truth about people and society as a whole, there are dregs everywhere.

As far as who calls themselves a fireman, it's all about training. I wouldn't go as far as to say most volunteers are capable, a good amount definitely, career guys with more training, sure there are still some useless ones but not quite as many. Their are plenty of useless EMTS and Medics out there too, and police officers on the rubber gun squad, we all know at least one or two. Being paid isn't the difference, training and ability is the difference. If someone said they just wanted to volunteer and help, had no training and about all they knew how to do was put on a bandaid, would you let them run around and call themselves paramedics, stick needles in people's arms, intubate, and give drugs. Oh and would you respect them more because it was free? Do you respect volunteer medics more than yourself? Or guys who just do it for less even? I know I know, there are licensing and education requirements for paramedics, but then following that logic, shouldn't the same kind of standards exist for firemen too? Go ahead though and think it's the fact that someone who does something for free deserves respect rather than someone who actually cares about being good at their profession and knows what they are doing, be it career or volunteer.

One more aside, it seems to be very common that the people who are the most inept and incapable, are the ones who don't realize this fact at all.

[RES24CUE 168]

How well trained do you think these people are?

[jd783 64]

That kids depth has a good dental and eye glass plan

[gss131 212]

He gives new meaning to the term "hood", or should i say "hoodie"

[FireMedic049 597]

About getting paid...? I can't tell you how many times people (general public civilian type) didn't know our local department was volunteer.

Bullshit and creative writing maybe. But unless I missed something, I didn't see anything about the building being unoccupied. Just that the 2 named residents escaped.

It would be fairly reasonable to conclude that the building was unoccupied from what was written in the story. The mentioning of the 2 residents by name and how they had lost all of their possessions coupled with the lack of mentioning that anyone else had lost something in the fire would indicate that they were the only 2 occupants of the house. There was no mention of anyone being "rescued" from the house, so that would indicate that either no one was in the house when the fire started or they were able to escape the building on their own when the fire was discovered and were outside when the FD arrived.

Of course, if they had been been a paid "Professional" department, their x-ray vision powers would have confirmed this.

It's not about being paid or having x-ray vision, but rather more of a matter of common sense. When you arrive at a dwelling fire and are met by the resident(s), specifically adults like mom or dad and they are advising that everyone is out of the house (in a credible manor), there's an extremely high likelihood that no one is in the house. Yes, there's the remote possibility that that may not be the case, but in my 20+ years of direct experience, talking with other FFs, reading numerous articles of incidents across the country and such, there's far, far more instances in which nobody was actually inside when it was reported to the arriving FD that somebody was still inside, than cases in which somebody was actually still inside when it was reported to the arriving FD that everybody was out of the house. (Note: I'm specifically talking about occupied, single family dwellings in which the actual resident is providing the report and not cases where by-standers provide the report or for incidents involving multi-residential buildings, vacant/abandoned buildings or commercial occupancies.)

[robert benz 344]

As a fire instructor I had to again notice the push back from the chief who stated he only had to take a 60 hr course, and now it is 112 hrs. "Who wants to drive 2x a week to Carmel". It is thinking like that NY State is on the lower

end of FF-1 course hours. And that always leads to the Career vs Volunteer debate. The last class of recruits traveled 5x a week, 8 hrs a day, for 16 weeks. That is 640 Hrs. With the constant threat of failing out due to poor grades, or not being able to pass CPAT. 19 out of 20 that started finished. It isn't a game, it isn't about how many members your

dept has, it is about giving the customer the service that is expected from a group of people that raised their right hand a swore to protect to the best of their ability the life and property of the residents of their community. If we do nothing the fire will still go out. The ends don't justify the means. TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING AND DEDICATED MEMBERS.

[AFS1970 504]

Had this article been titled Two Recent Fires Highlight Career Firefighter Role, the only replies here would have been a chorus of "Nice Job Brothers". If by chance someone did try to critique the fire they would have been blasted for armchair quarterbacking.

The residents might have escaped the fire, all that really means is they were not rescued. They could have walked out the front door or jumped from a bedroom window. As with most recent new articles the style is more dramatic than it should be with adjectives selected that call the reporting into question. However this article does seem to be about a fire where nothing much went wrong.

There is a big pot of something brown and stinky and people here need to stop stirring it up so much.

[RES24CUE 168]

Had this article been titled Two Recent Fires Highlight Career Firefighter Role, the only replies here would have been a chorus of "Nice Job Brothers". If by chance someone did try to critique the fire they would have been blasted for armchair quarterbacking.

The residents might have escaped the fire, all that really means is they were not rescued. They could have walked out the front door or jumped from a bedroom window. As with most recent new articles the style is more dramatic than it should be with adjectives selected that call the reporting into question. However this article does seem to be about a fire where nothing much went wrong.

There is a big pot of something brown and stinky and people here need to stop stirring it up so much.

This could be a fire where nothing much went wrong. Or it could be a fire where nothing at all went right. The outcome is that firefighters showed up to a well involved fire where residents had self-evacuated, could not make an interior attack, and performed surround-and-drown operations while they watched the building burn down. We don't know if they had 5 members show up or 50 members show up. We don't know if it took them 5 minutes or 25 minutes to arrive on scene. That was my whole problem with this article. It seems like this article is praising a group of individuals for unfavorable outcomes and potentially shoddy performance. "Great job showing up and watching a house burn down."

This gives the volunteer fire service, the residents, and the public a false (poor) sense of what is expected and what is favorable. The volunteers now know that they get a pat on the back regardless of whether or not the building is saved. The residents gain a false sense of security since the newspaper has just told them how great their local department is (that just allowed one of their neighbors houses to burn down without mounting a coordinated interior attack). The public now thinks that the volunteer fire service does a great job (when we all know that most volunteer departments are seriously lacking in manpower, training, and professionalism these days). I would imagine that this fire was not much different than the Vista helmet cam fire where everyone bashed them on this very website for their poor performance (we saw the article that they Huffington Post wrote about how great they were). This article is complete bullshit. Write an article when rescuers make a save. Not when a bunch of losers watch a house burn down.

Don't mistake me for a career firefighter who love to bash volunteers. I am not a career fire fighter and have never been one. I spent 10 years in the volunteer fire service as a Firefighter, Lieutenant, and Captain and quit because I believe that the volunteer fire service is a façade and a waste of taxpayer dollars where members are more concerned with social functions than they are with training and firematics.

[Dinosaur 844]

Had this article been titled Two Recent Fires Highlight Career Firefighter Role, the only replies here would have been a chorus of "Nice Job Brothers". If by chance someone did try to critique the fire they would have been blasted for armchair quarterbacking.

Oh my gosh! I can't believe everyone is ignoring the point that WCR was making. Read what the article says! The PUBIC instead of PUBLIC! In a freakin' newspaper article. That's some funny stuff right there and everyone just went on auto-pilot into the same BS that drags this site down time after time.

WTF?!?!?!?!?!

[wcr20 17]

THANK YOU Dino!!!

[wcr20 17]

BTW - is there no longer a way to edit a post for typos and the like?

[FFPCogs 863]

That's some funny stuff right there and everyone just went on auto-pilot into the same BS that drags this site down time after time.

WTF?!?!?!?!?!

And this surprises?? We, ALL of us, have become conditioned to the senseless animosity and pointless "better than you" nonsense which has overtaken the fire service in the last decade. It is now the norm to jump on the bandwagon of spite and malice to show just how much you support your "side" in the great career vs volunteer saga. Long gone it seems is even a modicum of common ground or common mission camaraderie and support that was once enjoyed by the vast majority of firefighters in our area. The very vocal but still relatively small minority of malcontents and rabble rousing sh!t-stirrers has hijacked our service and turned it into an "us against them" morass of bitter resentment fed by uninformed rumor mongering and deceit...all in an effort to fulfill their own grandiose visions of self importance.

Make no mistake, the persistent and unbridled hate spewed forth by some within our service is a cancer, no matter how well couched in "facts" it is. We have a choice, we can feed this cancer and let it grow ever more disruptive and divisive or we can refuse to play into it and thus show it the respect it deserves...none!! I choose the latter...how about you??

Edited July 18, 2014 by FFPCogs

[sueg 77]

FFPCogs: I second that motion. All in favor?.......

We are trying to convince our very good Fire Chief who cares about the Department not to step down because those self-same destructive types keep undermining certain functions, and he does not deserve that. He has more to accomplish and finish, and has support of the ones who care about the FD, but is tired of dealing with the BS and subversion of a very few.

Edited July 18, 2014 by sueg

[16fire5 693]

Don't mistake me for a career firefighter who love to bash volunteers. I am not a career fire fighter and have never been one. I spent 10 years in the volunteer fire service as a Firefighter, Lieutenant, and Captain and quit because I believe that the volunteer fire service is a façade and a waste of taxpayer dollars where members are more concerned with social functions than they are with training and firematics.

What happens to members in these departments that try to concern themselves mostly with training and operations and don't attend parades?

[FFPCogs 863]

What happens to members in these departments that try to concern themselves mostly with training and operations and don't attend parades?

One: They hang tough, stand firm and do their jobs, steadfastly working to build a better department from within, one more concerned with firematics than social activities

Two: They move on to another department more in tune with their own personal training and duty philosophies and thereafter they flourish

Three; They tuck their tails between their legs and quit

[16fire5 693]

One: They hang tough, stand firm and do their jobs, steadfastly working to build a better department from within, one more concerned with firematics than social activities

Two: They move on to another department more in tune with their own personal training and duty philosophies and thereafter they flourish

Three; They tuck their tails between their legs and quit

I respect your honest answer to my question. For me I have only ever and would only ever volunteer in the town I live in.

The standard way a volunteer fire department is run here in the north east is antiquated and broken. Too often operations is a secondary priority.

I was at a conference a few years ago in the mid west and I was talking to some fire chiefs and one was saying to the group "did you know there are some places that still have elections to decide who's chief?" I had to laugh because are there any volunteer department's in New York that don't do it that way?