Hartsdale Firefighter's Make Great Save

[x635 4,066]

From Hartsdale Fire Chief Ed Rush...

A call was received via 911 from a neighbor, reporting smoke from the residence and hearing pounding on a window. Deputy Chief Ray Maseda arrived first, established command and conducted an initial 360 degree exterior survey which revealed fire showing from the kitchen door in the rear and smoke showing from all other sides of the house. An initial attack hose line was ordered to the front door. The hose line team of Captain Chip Nanko, Firefighter Howard Esterly and Firefighter Chris Mentrasti proceeded to the second floor kitchen area to put out the fire. At the same time, Firefighters Nick Mancuso and Andrew Roberto performed the vital functions on the outside of the building of hooking up to the fire hydrant, working the pump on the fire engine, and putting ladders up. Captain Chip Nanko broke off from the hose team and joined and Firefighter Frank Lacalamita to search for victims. While searching through heavy smoke and high heat conditions, they found an unconscious and barely breathing female victim in the bedroom and removed her to the exterior and turned her over to Greenburgh Police Paramedics. The quick and expert actions of these firefighters certainly saved the life of this resident. Fairview and Greenville firefighters arrived soon after and assisted in searching the house to ensure that there were no more people inside and making sure the fire had not spread further in the house.

[everybodygoes 331]

Let me get this straight. The chief gets there first, knows that someone is inside and doesn't do anything?

[1911 34]

"Broke off from the hose team"? Now the Engine officer has one man MIA in thick black smoke.......I dunno... Don't know about their staffing.....glad they made the save...

Edited May 12, 2014 by 1911

[everybodygoes 331]

In radio and voice contact is still considered supervision. If you are not comfortable doing a search alone you should resign.

[rushed 24]

These are some of the most ridiculous comments I have ever seen on this site. Is it that you guys can't read, can't count, or know absolutely nothing about firefighting? Read the narrative again and re-think your comments.

[somebuffyguy 190]

Let me get this straight. The chief gets there first, knows that someone is inside and doesn't do anything?

I really don't agree with saying conducting a size up and setting up command is "doing nothing". If he made visual contact with a victim at a window and could've gotten them out then by all means go ahead and do it. It makes no sense however to say a Chief should go into a building by himself on a report of someone inside. If he gets himself killed because he went in without any backup, what does that accomplish ? Considering Hartsdale is only 4.5 square miles and has two stations, I highly doubt it took very long for their initial crews to get on scene. Either way, they made the save so I'm not going to knock how they did it.

[Bottom of Da Hill 76]

good job by the hartsdale fire dept.

[FireMedic049 597]

Aren't all saves "great"?

[1911 34]

Just re-read the original story and want to apologize if I came off as critical. Sounds like these guys had their hands full and made the best out of a sh**ty situation...Good job guys..

[16fire5 693]

An initial 360 is a critical step and mandatory in most of the country. Most people would consider that action by the first arriving IC with the first alarm right behind them spot on.

The members were confronted with a KNOWN life hazard. So individual searches were both permitted and called for in this situation. Looks like the HFD did a bang up job based on what they were confronted with and their limited staffing.

Would you like the IC to drive like a nut half dress and sprint into the front door as the companies arrive to make the grab???

The search team to hold hands or tether themselves to the hose while a victims fights for every last breath?

Many times in this form we are critical of highly risky tactics when they were not warranted. In this case it seems the members did exactly what they should have. The Chief should be understandably proud of his men. Nice work HFD.

Edited May 12, 2014 by 16fire5

[ex-commish 490]

Good save!!!

[everybodygoes 331]

So if you lived there you would want your loved one to be waiting to be rescued while someone walked around the house? I guess having a brain dead loved one is the same as having one alive to all of you. Call me critical but life takes all priority.

[everybodygoes 331]

The house is worth nothing, the person inside is all the value. If you can't pull up in front a private dwelling and tell me the basic layout you need to watch more HGTV.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

The search team to hold hands or tether themselves to the hose while a victims fights for every last breath?

Don't forget the tried and true Firefighter 1 Boot Hold Method.

Job well done by Hartsdale FD.

Edited May 12, 2014 by SageVigiles

[rushed 24]

The house is worth nothing, the person inside is all the value. If you can't pull up in front a private dwelling and tell me the basic layout you need to watch more HGTV.

You are truly showing your ignorance here by continuing to try and defend an indefensible position. Anyone who has taken the most basic FF training, has ever read any article on firefighting tactics or NIOSH LODD reports, or attended any firefighting seminar, knows that one of the first things an IC should do upon arrival is a complete 360 of the fire building. You need to follow 1911's lead, re-read the narrative again, and admit that you made a mistake and move on.

[everybodygoes 331]

Oh and lets not forget about the dead husband! We could not have possibly saved him he was definitely gone by then too. I have unfortunatly been present for LODD's. Doing a 360 would have done nothing to prevent them. You should perhaps read them yourself. But that is totally off topic. Nothing and I mean NOTHING will save a life more than an aggressive firefighter. A BS kitchen fire took one life and almost took another. If you think walking around the building was worth when you are the ONLY guy there you need to grow a set.

[dc2t 80]

The brothers from HFD did a good save. Maybe some the the keyboard commanders should keep their comments to themselves. Everybody goes doesn't knows sounds like a buff to me.

[everybodygoes 331]

I guarantee I have been to more fires than any of the other posters on this thread. But that isnt the point. How often do you respond to a job where 911 gets a report that someone was banging on the window for help. I will bet dollars to donuts a lawsuit will come of this. The men did a great job, they show up with what 8 guys to put out a fire and make a grab, the issue is the choice that was made. If I was there even without a mask I would be attempting entry. But I must be crazy or looking to become a LODD because I didn't check my nuts when I took the oath.

[dc2t 80]

Do you put your helmet in the oven for that 1000 job look?

[rushed 24]

I guarantee I have been to more fires than any of the other posters on this thread. But that isnt the point. How often do you respond to a job where 911 gets a report that someone was banging on the window for help. I will bet dollars to donuts a lawsuit will come of this. The men did a great job, they show up with what 8 guys to put out a fire and make a grab, the issue is the choice that was made. If I was there even without a mask I would be attempting entry. But I must be crazy or looking to become a LODD because I didn't check my nuts when I took the oath.

You obviously don't get it and are just starting to get defensive now, so I am done here. I just really hope that if you ever get put in a leadership position in the fire service you develop a better attitude, because this is the type of thinking, or lack thereof, that gets firefighters injured or killed.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

I guarantee I have been to more fires than any of the other posters on this thread. But that isnt the point. How often do you respond to a job where 911 gets a report that someone was banging on the window for help. I will bet dollars to donuts a lawsuit will come of this. The men did a great job, they show up with what 8 guys to put out a fire and make a grab, the issue is the choice that was made. If I was there even without a mask I would be attempting entry. But I must be crazy or looking to become a LODD because I didn't check my nuts when I took the oath.

Where are you from son to make that kind of guarantee ?

[16fire5 693]

I guarantee I have been to more fires than any of the other posters on this thread.

Silly me I thought it was 2014 not 1974. Do you keep you own CD-14?

[antiquefirelt 994]

The house is worth nothing, the person inside is all the value. If you can't pull up in front a private dwelling and tell me the basic layout you need to watch more HGTV.

It is far too easy to use hindsight to explain the "just get in there" train of thought. Our not knowing the layout of the structure, the location of the building, the conditions on arrival (true observed conditions) and how quickly incoming companies would be arriving I find it hard to support the actions you propose. On the other hand, had the chief made the grab, there would likely be a reversal of some of this thinking.

Conditions dictate actions, maybe some of you are privy to far more insight than is accessible to the rest of us in web-world. Had the trapped occupant been halfway out the rear window awaiting a ladder or laying at the foot of the rear wall, how would one justify missing the 360 to make an unsupported search? Does the Chief carry SCBA? Were the conditions such to allow him a probe without one? How large is the structure? How detailed is the report of the victim? Too many variables for me to advocate always diving in head first.

Edited May 13, 2014 by antiquefirelt

[hfdlt216 9]

The house is worth nothing, the person inside is all the value. If you can't pull up in front a private dwelling and tell me the basic layout you need to watch more HGTV.

I normally don't post on this site. However, I take exception to your comments. Furthermore, I have to question your integrity and validity. A 360 is an integral part of any emergency operation. As was previously stated it is even taught in (exterior) Support Scene Ops & FFI or CFR or EMT. Action without a plan is simply freelancing and haphazard. The utmost priority is to your guys, it trumps all else. Attitudes such as yours gets people killed, injured and open to litigation. Instead of having one victim you have exacerbated the op exponentially to the possibility of multiple victims, not to mention a reallocation of limited resources to effect a rescue that may have been avoided to begin with. Especially when it's unsubstantiated. Not having a handline operational, with new structures specifically, premature entry may contribute to flashover or backdraft conditions. Stating that all residential dwellings are similar if not identical, further displays your obliviousness. People are not identical, nor are there homes. To assume (well you know the saying). In the 21st century (the century we live in) you have a multiude of complictions. Clandestine meth labs, people who possess explosive materials, active shooter, photovolatic power, LOX, Collard's Mansions, etc. Not to mention alterations to existing structure that may have been done without proper authorization, or a significant drop off in grade on the Charlie side from the Alpha, or any other obstruction or hinderance to the operation. Moreover stating that anyone did nothing, lacks "balls" or "check your nuts" as you so eloquently stated, further displays your incognizance. Knowing all involved that is the farthest from the truth. I am not sure how many fires you have been to, but your statements would allude to the contrary. Thank God you are not my Captain or DC.

Great job guys. I am proud to be a member of the HFD. Job well done. Another example of the professionalism, integrity and the high reputation of our department. As for your HGTV comment, maybe you should stop watching Backdraft, it's a movie.

Edited May 13, 2014 by hfdlt216

[Bnechis 3,961]

Nothing and I mean NOTHING will save a life more than an aggressive firefighter.

True, but at the same time NOTHING will kill Firefighters faster than the incident commander not having situational awareness, and not communicating conditions and actions to incoming and/or operating units.

Almost the universal reason listed on every NIOSH fire ground LODD report...."Failure to Communicate" & "Failure to Command"

[firecapt32 282]

I am not sure how many of you have pulled into a job with 5-6 firefighters but let me tell you its no fun. decisions have to be made and made quickly--the lives of your firefighters depend on those decisions. second due mutual aid may be coming but its those first few minutes that are critical. From everything I have read about this job it was handled--professionally with firefighters doing what they have been trained to do since probie school--they put their lives on the line for one of their citizens.

you can criticize all you want but until you have stood in those boots and made those decisions you just don't understand.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

How about by yourself

[FireMedic049 597]

I am not sure how many of you have pulled into a job with 5-6 firefighters but let me tell you its no fun.

If you think that's no fun, try pulling in with only 4 firefighters.

[AFS1970 504]

Also remember that the information from the public while well intentioned may not be accurate. In this weeks news was an incident at a mall reported as an active shooter, because people heard the tires pop on a car fire outside the mall and stampeded out of the mall.

Off the top of my head I can think of two times I got reports of fires with people trapped that were not the case (there are probably more). Once it was reported as multiple people trapped in an attic that was on fire. The actual scene was a small fire in the attic but by no means heavy fire conditions, and the report of people trapped from a homeowner who knew he had workers in the attic and thought they must be trapped. The foreman was on scene and had accounted for all his crew. The other one was a report of a house fire with the wife outside reporting her husband trapped inside. Again the actual fire was relatively small, lots of smoke but what amounted to a small electrical fire in equipment connected to a fish tank in the basement. As it turned out the wife came home, opened the door and saw the smoke, so she backed out and called 9-1-1. She based her report of her husband being trapped on the fact that his work van was in the driveway. He was no home at the time of the fire. In both of these cases they were well intentioned but inaccurate, I can't say that was the case with hearing pounding at a window, but I would not base a one man entry without a RIT on that little information. That is very far from a known hazard.

Think about the reverse situation. Same call for the fire but this time the neighbor promises us that the resident is not home, although he doesn't know here she is. He is certain she is not inside. Would we use that as a basis to not perform a search? Of course not, because we understand that even first hand information is not always right. So if you don't take his word that she is outside, then you can't take it that she is inside. You can however do an aggressive and thorough search and hopefully save a life or two.

Nice job by HFD!

[BBBMF 158]

Interesting conversation...

First and foremost, i do not like mmq'ing and do not know the particulars about this fire. Secondly, the amount of time I have being a firefighter is infinitesimal and I've only been to a handful of real butt-whipping jobs, but do see my share of work from time to time. I don't know how many firefighters are arriving on Hartsdale's initial assignment. I don't know what type of conditions were present on arrival. I don't know if this fire was in the incipient, flashover, or transitioning into the full growth stage. I do not know the smoke condition that was present. And I don't know if a civilian offering information is always 100% correct. From the picture outside it doesn't look to be to to much but i could be totally wrong... If the chief wants to do a 360, that's at his discretion, not that i feel that this is always necessary on the onset with a "known life hazard" but someone should be doing it in the early stages of the operation. What I do know is that pulling up to a fire with a handful of men and trying to bring an advanced fire under control is no easy task! So kudos to Hartsdale FD for making the grab and saving that woman's life. After all, that's our job!

I also know that... The fire goes as the first line goes. However, if and when you are presented with a situation such as arriving to a fire with limited manpower and are presented with a known life hazard, if you do not have the manpower to simultaneously stretch the first line and start a primary, the known life hazard always takes precedence over all other operations and must be immediately addressed. If the house burns to the ground in the process, oh well! If a chief does a 360 and reports fire issuing from a window, it presents a much less volatile environment for us firefighters and makes an aggressive search that much easier because the fire is venting and you won't have worry about that dense turbulent smoke that might otherwise be present, violently waiting to light up and burn your ass. If your first due engine is equipped with a 24 which I'd imagine it is and a known life hazard does exist, you should also be considering entering that window and isolating that room to conduct a primary (P.S. there's a great vid on the internet from a job i think on LI where a fireman does a great job saving a baby VEIS'ing from the 4 side of a peaked cape).

What "everybodygoes" does point out which is an excellent point is knowing your buildings! Besides all the other ranting the probies get when they show up to the fh about shutting their mouths, showing up, and constantly being on the move, I always add in what I believe are a few very important concepts a firefighter should know. Knowing your buildings, their inherent layouts, and reading smoke. If you can do those things very well, everything else will become 2nd nature through drilling, talking shop and plain old experience over time.

There are many different types of building out there but lets focus on PD's cause that seems to be the bread n' butter round here. Due to construction, alternations, additions, and our poor economy, anything is possible (Beware of Taxpayers!!!! cannot emphasize enough!) Knowing the buildings in your first due and outlying area will help you understand their building construction; Legacy vs. contemporary, fire spread, number of beds n baths you need to search, alternative egress and ingress points, height; what portables will reach which floor; windows/roof AND where the interior stairs are!!

Smoke is another biggie. Smoke by color and density amongst a couple other characteristics is going to tell you 99% of the time where the fire is, what it's doing, what's burning, what stage the fire's in, and where it's traveling to. Once you've read the building and the smoke, the engine will know where to stretch to locate, confine, extinguish, and the truck will know where to start their search for not only the victims but the fire, and where to go to when searching for extension.

So Let's turn this conversation a little more positive and hear more from the really salty guys, cause i know there are plenty of old timers on here and they have plenty of untapped knowledge.... Shoot------> oh wait, this is ny, cant do that anymore LOL