Rockland County helicopter

[EMT111 149]

It appears that the Rockland County helicopter is about ready to go back into service. Which Rockland agency is it that operates this helicopter and what capabilities does it have?

http://rocklandgov.com/#prettyPhoto/1/

[res6cue 67]

No one single agency operates it. Oversight for the helicopter is governed by a board that represents all of Rockland's emergency services (H.E.L.P., see below).

The helicopter is equipped for aerial observation and air support operations (search, illumination ,fire spotting, etc.). It does not have medevac, hoist or firefighting capabilities (e.g. Bambi bucket). It is equipped with a 30 million candle power searchlight and a FLIR camera.

The Helicopter Emergency Lift Program, Inc. (H.E.L.P.) was started as part of the Rockland County Fire Service Mutual Aid Plan in 1969. The idea that it should be developed into a service of its own was conceived April 3, 1971 on an ominous ledge of High Tor Mountain. It was here that the lives of two badly battered girls hung in the balance of good judgment on the part of their rescuers and transporting to a hospital by helicopter. Both girls although seriously injured, survived and recovered.

With guidance and some financing from industry and the Rockland County Legislature, H.E.L.P. became a non-profit corporation in 1972. The U.S. Army donated two surplus helicopters to Rockland County in 1974 and one of them was FAA certified, insured and made operational shortly thereafter.

Organized as an emergency service unit, H.E.L.P. provides its services to Rockland County only in conjunction and cooperation with Emergency Services such as the Office of Fire & Emergency Services, Fire Departments, Police Departments, the Sheriff's Patrol, Emergency Medical Services and Hospitals. It is completely manned by volunteers, including 3 pilots, from the membership of these organizations whose time and expertise are free of charge. Special training for on the ground and in the air activities is given to all members.

http://rocklandgov.com/files/9013/5998/5543/Helicopter3Panel.pdf

http://newcity.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/rocklands-emergency-helicopter-getting-a-makeover-tha806786a2d4

Edited May 1, 2014 by res6cue

[res6cue 67]

Two videos on News 12's site

http://hudsonvalley.news12.com/news/rockland-county-emergency-services-helicopter-flying-again-after-2-year-overhaul-1.7830637

http://hudsonvalley.news12.com/multimedia/video-rockland-county-helicopter-1.7829046

[mfc2257 464]

Am I alone in thinking that this is a bit of a waste without at least one of the listed functions that are excluded from its mission?

[Ga-Lin 86]

Am I alone in thinking that this is a bit of a waste without at least one of the listed functions that are excluded from its mission?

I agree, sounds like it's outfitted for law enforcement more than anything else. May be of use in wildland firefighting advising which way it is going, but then can't do anything about it. This is going to turn out to be some sort of VIP transport vehicle.

[res6cue 67]

Am I alone in thinking that this is a bit of a waste without at least one of the listed functions that are excluded from its mission?

You're certainly in the minority with your thinking, especially when it comes to the people whose opinion actually matter, meaning those who work and live in and around Rockland County. Those who understand the purpose of the helicopter and who have appreciated the fact that Rockland has operated their own helicopter for nearly 40 years. Ask the river departments from both counties how much of a "waste" the helicopter has been over the past few decades when they need the bridge or water to be lit up, or need infrared search capability. You know, Westchester County didn't always have a fancy set of brand new helicopters, so who do you think provided those services for all of those years?

I agree, sounds like it's outfitted for law enforcement more than anything else. May be of use in wildland firefighting advising which way it is going, but then can't do anything about it. This is going to turn out to be some sort of VIP transport vehicle.

Your comment "going to turn out to be some sort of VIP transport vehicle" makes very little sense. Do you realize that this is the same helicopter that Rockland has owned and operated since 1986, and is not something new for the county? The existing helicopter was sent out for a much needed refurb and updates, but it's been the same exact helicopter for the past 28 years.

As far as the helicopter being used for brush fires, it's quite valuable being up in the air when something breaks out in Bear Mountain/Harriman State Parks. This isn't out west where huge water drops are required for wildland fires, most brush fires in the parks in this area are dealt with by cutting fire lines and letting the fire run its natural course. It's nice to have a helicopter with infrared capability up in the air within 30 minutes to spot for the Forest Rangers and ground crews.

It's nice that Westchester found $9 million to spend on a pair of brand new Bell 407's, but that wasn't in the cards for Rockland. There was an attempt to purchase a Bell 407 with the same capabilities as Westchester in 2006, but it never happened. Instead they came up with $320,000 of asset forfeiture funds and gave "old reliable" a refurb.

Anyways, as I said...the people in and around Rockland appreciate the fact that the county has operated their own helicopters for 40 years now, and they understand that the current model does have limitations. There are no shortage of other agencies in the region that have additional capabilities (WCPD's two helicopters, NYSP, NYPD, West Point, etc.), and I'm quite sure that if Rockland spent $4.5 million on a brand new Bell 407 with all the bells and whistles that WCPD's helicopters have, many would complain that it's a duplication of services and a waste of taxpayer's money...instead of making comments about how the current model is a "waste" because it can't drop 100 gallons of water on a brush fire in the woods.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't!

Edited May 2, 2014 by res6cue

[mfc2257 464]

res6cue.... I've obviously offended you based on your extremely defensive response. Ordinarily I'd be apologetic but when you start that crap about people's opinions that "actually matter", I'd rather tell you to shove it. If you can't have a constructive conversation and deliver an evidence based reply to an opinion that differs from yours then why participate?

[res6cue 67]

res6cue.... I've obviously offended you based on your extremely defensive response. Ordinarily I'd be apologetic but when you start that crap about people's opinions that "actually matter", I'd rather tell you to shove it. If you can't have a constructive conversation and deliver an evidence based reply to an opinion that differs from yours then why participate?

My post was full of plenty of "evidence" as to why the helicopter is a valuable resource for Rockland and the area. You didn't offend me personally, I just don't think that the uninformed opinion of a guy whose location is listed as "Florida" matters one bit as relates to Rockland County's helicopter. You're certainly entitled to post whatever opinion you'd like to, it's a free country and an open discussion forum. That doesn't mean it has to matter, though! Oh and I'm sure plenty of guys from Rockland would agree, and would probably have the very same "shove it" attitude towards you after reading your post.

QTIP!

[x635 4,066]

What is the availability of this helicopter? And who staffs it?

Also, to be Medevac capable, does NYS*DOH have to certify that like they do ambulances?

[res6cue 67]

What is the availability of this helicopter? And who staffs it?

Also, to be Medevac capable, does NYS*DOH have to certify that like they do ambulances?

Seth,

This is the same helicopter Rockland has owned and operated since 1986, there has been no change to the availability or staffing or anything else. Same as it always was: Housed at the Fire Training Center, 24/7/365 availability (weather conditions permitting,of course), and staffed by four volunteer pilots who are paged out by 44-Control. The average turnaround time from page out to in-the-air is 30 minutes. The helicopter will fly with just the pilot on board if need be, with common practice being for it to pick up additional personnel on the ground at other locations as necessary (assuming the additional personnel won't make it to the FTC within a reasonable amount of time and would cause a launch delay that eats up valuable in-the-air time).

I'll let someone else answer the medevac question, as I don't have the definitive answer. Regardless, it doesn't apply to Rockland's helicopter since it only seats three in the rear and is not used to transport patients. In extreme cases where no other options exist, you could certainly 'do what needs to be done', but all other options would have to be exhausted first.

[mfc2257 464]

res6cue

Ok we're not going to hijack the thread.... 27 years in Westchester before Florida... spent plenty of time with the boys in Orangeburg and in college there was a strong Gettysburg Hillcrest relationship so I'm not exactly a stranger to the people who's "opinions matter most. " You were defensive and whiny about a valid question about leaving functionality on the table. The helicopter just underwent a two year overhaul and is nothing more than an airborne observation platform. If there is enough work for it fulfilling that role, and that's your opinion, then I totally respect that. I just don't need it in a rant that resembles a kid slamming doors when he doesn't get what he wants.

Don't give me that QTIP crap either, I'm not the one defending something here.

Edited May 2, 2014 by mfc2257

[res6cue 67]

res6cue

Ok we're not going to hijack the thread.... 27 years in Westchester before Florida... spent plenty of time with the boys in Orangeburg and in college there was a strong Gettysburg Hillcrest relationship so I'm not exactly a stranger to the people who's "opinions matter most. " You were defensive and whiny about a valid question about leaving functionality on the table. The helicopter just underwent a two year overhaul and is nothing more than an airborne observation platform. If there is enough work for it fulfilling that role, and that's your opinion, then I totally respect that. I just don't need it in a rant that resembles a kid slamming doors when he doesn't get what he wants.

Don't give me that QTIP crap either, I'm not the one defending something here.

It underwent an overhaul, that's correct. No one claimed that it underwent a "capabilities enhancement upgrade" program, which I think is a very important distinction.

It's a 40 year old 5 seater (2 cockpit, 3 rear) Bell 206B, which is historically used only for observation...not lifting, hoisting or medevac operations. It's a small helicopter by modern standards. No functionality was "left on the table" during the overhaul, they just wanted it brought up to current standards with a few fairly mundane improvements like the new UV resistant cockpit glass, new skids to replace the old pan float type skids, and a shiny new paint job/design. Oh and it needed a new P25 Phase II capable multi-band airborne radio so it can operate on Rockland's new trunked radio system.

The initial allocation for this overhaul was $150,000, however during the overhaul process it was determined that it needed a new tail boom section, which tacked on another $170,000 to the cost. So if we put aside the unforeseen expense of the unavoidable tail boom replacement, we're left with a $150,000 overhaul to a 40 year old machine that was intended just to bring the critical components up to date; not to turn it into Airwolf or Blue Thunder!

It's not my opinion that this particular helicopter has served a valuable purpose as an "airborne observation platform", it's a fact based on 28 years of usage in that capacity (plus 11 years prior to that with the original county helicopter).

[thebreeze 194]

27 years of what, living in your moms house? Your profile says you are 37 so we know it wasn't 27 years in the fire service. The only guy who gets whiny here is you, you want to sit and criticize something and when someone sends back a well thought out post outlining how the helicopter has in fact been useful you state that there is no evidence. Where is your evidence? You fire off shots in the dark saying a resource you don't use isn't useful. When people who do use it clearly lay out how it is useful you criticize them for not agreeing with your point of view. You come off like a clown, I know plenty of guys like you, you talk a big game and bash everyone like you know what's what. I guess you feel the need to let everyone here know your opinion because no one in Florida wants to listen to your BS anymore. Yeah I don't share my profile info, so what, would it matter to you who I was? YOIRE gonna be the same clown regardless. Yeah let's hear what nonsense you have to spew at me now, go ahead, I've had my balls broken by guys who wouldn't let you carry their d@ck s$eat. Go ahead you'll be talking into empty space.

[mfc2257 464]

Thank you. I absolutely respect your opinion. The cost if the overhaul seems reasonable for the role you have described. I hope it serves Rockland and surrounding communities well.

[res6cue 67]

Well, that escalated quickly lol.

For the record, yes I did get a bit snippy with my previous replies. We would all love to have a brand new helicopter for Rockland that had the same capabilities of WCPD's two new birds, but it's just not in the cards at this point. I think they did an admirable job with this overhaul, spending less than 15% of the cost of a new unit to keep this one safely flying for the next 5-10 years or however long before they can hopefully upgrade to a new model with more capability.

I think much of it comes down to something we all wish a lot of agencies would do, which is to take a look at the resources around them and determine if they really NEED that new toy, or if it's just something that would be desirable but not critical. We see fire departments with overkill duplication of apparatus resources and we all shake our heads. I think given the abundance of air support in this area, and the proximity of various helicopters to Rockland, there's no urgent need for them to spend a few million on a new helicopter. Westchester has their two new birds that are within a few minutes flight time of Rockland; the NYSP fly out of Stewart and are also just a few minutes out; West Point has two new choppers that have hoist and air drop capability that are also based out of Stewart; NYPD aviation has responded up to Rockland a few times; etc.

Believe it or not, it used to be that Rockland County was one of the few agencies in the area to have a helicopter dedicated exclusively for public safety usage. Westchester didn't get their first helicopter until 1994, a full 20 years after Rockland was already flying their own, and 8 years after this one was already flying. I don't have the stats on the NYSP and when they had a helicopter in the region, or West Point for that matter (I know they recently replaced a pair of Huey's with the new Eurocopters), but I have to imagine from what I know and remember that for a good while, it was basically Rockland or the NYPD if you wanted a public safety helicopter in the region.

[mfc2257 464]

thebreeze… I was done with you in the Tankers vs. LDH units when you commented that guys who ride the truck are "firemen's helpers" and that only the guys on the engine were real firemen. Please refer to my comments at the end of that thread about you going back to your hole and letting the rest of us have a legitimate conversation about the fire service. If I could kiss you good night and tuck you in I would. Sweet dreams about packing hose….

[mfc2257 464]

Well, that escalated quickly lol.

For the record, yes I did get a bit snippy with my previous replies. We would all love to have a brand new helicopter for Rockland that had the same capabilities of WCPD's two new birds, but it's just not in the cards at this point. I think they did an admirable job with this overhaul, spending less than 15% of the cost of a new unit to keep this one safely flying for the next 5-10 years or however long before they can hopefully upgrade to a new model with more capability.

I think much of it comes down to something we all wish a lot of agencies would do, which is to take a look at the resources around them and determine if they really NEED that new toy, or if it's just something that would be desirable but not critical. We see fire departments with overkill duplication of apparatus resources and we all shake our heads. I think given the abundance of air support in this area, and the proximity of various helicopters to Rockland, there's no urgent need for them to spend a few million on a new helicopter. Westchester has their two new birds that are within a few minutes flight time of Rockland; the NYSP fly out of Stewart and are also just a few minutes out; West Point has two new choppers that have hoist and air drop capability that are also based out of Stewart; NYPD aviation has responded up to Rockland a few times; etc.

Believe it or not, it used to be that Rockland County was one of the few agencies in the area to have a helicopter dedicated exclusively for public safety usage. Westchester didn't get their first helicopter until 1994, a full 20 years after Rockland was already flying their own, and 8 years after this one was already flying. I don't have the stats on the NYSP and when they had a helicopter in the region, or West Point for that matter (I know they recently replaced a pair of Huey's with the new Eurocopters), but I have to imagine from what I know and remember that for a good while, it was basically Rockland or the NYPD if you wanted a public safety helicopter in the region.

I just learned a lot about the Rockland County bird…. Just curious… Of the three services that share it's use do any of them use it more than another? The pilots, are they flying with another agency as their day job? BTW I appreciate a tough conversation that eventually calms to one of productivity. Stay safe res6cue...

[res6cue 67]

Police use it the most, followed by the fire service. It goes up quite a bit to search for marijuana plants and to search for/observe other illegal activities, or to search for missing/lost persons. I know that FLIR cameras have become standard equipment on helicopters these days, but Chopper 1's was installed back in 2001 and has come in pretty handy in those 13 years. Ditto for the searchlight being pretty standard and mundane, but when you need to light up the river to find a jumper, or light up a cliff on Hook Mountain in Nyack to locate stranded hikers while the high-angle team rescues them, it's a godsend having that thing up in the air hovering above.

EMS certainly uses it the least, given the lack of medevac capability. Like I replied to Seth, I'm sure in an extreme case where there's no other choice you could throw a patient in the back and fly them to a hospital, but I don't know of any incidents where it has happened. I do know that back in 2007 they flew down to JFK to pick up botulism antitoxins that were flown in for a critical patient at Good Samaritan Hospital, so I suppose you can classify that under "medical usage".