Setting A Precendent For Apparatus

[x635 4,066]

Let's say Department A acquires a 25 year old medium duty chasis rescue from another department for one dollar. This department has never had a rescue truck before. The department pays to equip it. This department has the potential for a lot of rescue calls, but historically does few.

A few years later, the rescue starts to fail, despite rarely being used. Now, has the department set a precedent where the Village/Town has to replace the rescue with a brand new one for approximately $400,000?

[Bnechis 3,961]

1) That's up to the village/town to determine, just like any other purchase.

2) Your 1st due engine ( in a dept. with only 2 engines) blows a motor. You only run 50 calls a year and only 1 working fire every other year. Have you set a precedent that it needs to be repaired/replaced? (answer in #1 above).

[ks1980 36]

Well where I currently work, our 2 front line pumpers are 1984 pierce arrows. They dont meet NFPA 1901 sub section d , and we can't get our Commishoners to place a tax measure on a ballot. When I.presented a plan , I was asked "well they start dont they?" never mind open jump seats, no heat windshield defrost non existent, ONLY a mechanical federal siren.

My opion is if a department needs a new pumper or ladder, they should get it. It comes down to.our safety and the publics safety. Yes some may go.over board with lights and what not, but non the less if a dept can do it I have no.problem

[AndyC3J 190]

I would think that they wouldn't necessarily have to purchase a brand spanking new rig, when they could very easily acquire another used one that's in decent shape for a fraction of the cost.

[FFEMT150 214]

It's a matter of want vs. need. If there aren't any buildings in your district over 2 stories you may not need a 110 foot tower ladder, but you want it! Practicality is the answer. Seth originally asked if a department who pieced together a $1 beater should replace it with a new one for $400,000. I ask why? Can you justify a $400,000 purchase? Ask yourself if the equipment on this rig can be moved to another. Can we downsize the rig? Can we go pre-owned? Do we even need it? All things that need to be considered when replacing any vehicle.

[x635 4,066]

Let me elaborate some more....the department gets the $1 rescue, as a "gateway" into getting the brand new rescue they really want.

I've seen numerous departments manage to get apparatus they don't really need replaced in this manner. Most Village officials don't have a clue about how FD's operate, so they can be easily swindled by Chiefs. Most Fire Districts are clandestine, and can get away with anything and this is how some Districts facilitate purchases.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Let me elaborate some more....the department gets the $1 rescue, as a "gateway" into getting the brand new rescue they really want.

I've seen numerous departments manage to get apparatus they don't really need replaced in this manner. Most Village officials don't have a clue about how FD's operate, so they can be easily swindled by Chiefs. Most Fire Districts are clandestine, and can get away with anything and this is how some Districts facilitate purchases.

So like I said before, Its up to the municipality. If they do not understand how a large portion of their public safety is set up, operates and costs, then shame on them.

[AFS1970 504]

Well the mere possession of such a rig is probably not justification on it's own, but look at call volume, operations at scenes, ect. and you might just need a replacement rig. Is it great to get a brand new one, sure, but as the last one cost $1, really anything between that and the $400K is a step up.

I can think of a few places where such a replacement tactic has worked. I have even advocated for it myself in a number of cases. Supposing there is a type of apparatus that you have the potential need for but few if any actual calls. Your department asks for it a few times and does not get it. Then the opportunity for one comes up from a reliable used source, so you take it. It does get used a few times, but not really all that much. It could actually be used a bit more but again not all that much. Now when asking for this apparatus, you are asking to replace the existing one which is old and lacks some features of a new one. This time you will probably get approved because the people controlling the funds know little if anything about fire apparatus.

Does this work, yes. Is it ethical, probably not.