Etiquette At LODD Funerals

[lad12derff 283]

I, along with 25 of my Brothers spent 2 days paying our respect to Lt Walsh and FF Kennedy. I have to tell you that there needs to be a class on proper etiquette taught to the younger generation of firefighters. I can't tell you how many members I saw carrying cases of beer on their shoulders walking the streets where our Brother was being celebrated. Guys just walking by the church with 24 on their shoulder. I don't really know if they were career or volley and don't really care who they are affiliated with but their actions disgusted me as well as other New Rochelle Firefighters. If you want to have a few beers between the service and the last drive past the sea of blue please go to a bar. If you want to tailgate and party in front of the civilians like morons please go to a football or baseball game. In front of the church and on peoples lawns is not the place!!!!

Edited April 4, 2014 by lad12derff

[FirNaTine 370]

Gotta be kidding me! Friggin disgrace to the Uniform! ST Paddys Day was last month!

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

I saw that too, and also saw them piss in side yards and back yards.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Sadly, it appears another new "trend" is coming out of our technology boom. It appears that a funeral is now becoming a "look at me event". Reportedly, many uniformed firefighters were taking cellphone pics throughout the processional and such. Many don't seem to understand that taking pictures for their Facebook page makes a solemn day of remembrance appear to be about the wrong people. What could and should be a large silent presence to honor the fallen and show the family, FD and community that we are one in brotherhood appears to be just another excuse to get out of town a drink and show off their hero costumes. Disgraceful. Too bad only those of us on the inside readily see the difference between those in uniform and those in hero costumes.

[10512 214]

I have to tell you that there needs to be a class on proper etiquette taught to the younger generation of firefighters.

Sadly, I do not think a class on etiquette would have much impact. This situation has more to do with common sense, or the lack of.

[FirNaTine 370]

I saw this 13yrs ago at Ground Zero. Guys taking pics of each other I/f/o/ utter devastation. Are you friggin kidding me? Yeah that's it, let's take one of the worst days in American History and turn it into a photo op! Morons!

[x635 4,066]

Are we talking about this "selfie" in inappropriate situations craze as well?

Boston should have had a separate area for themselves, and out of towners. Ship the out of towners to Gillete Stadium and let them tailgate or go home. The people who live and work in that city each and every day should have had their city back. So they could go about their normal activities, go to their normal bars, visits with their friends. Showing support during a funeral is one thing, invading a mourning community is another. Boston is a town that likes to have fun...but also is serious when they need to be serious. There is no black and white there. The funeral is the end of the public respects, and now it turns towards personal mooring and figuring out how to go on.

Another thing that drives me nuts is group shots with everyone smiling with the burnt out house and crying victims in the background. Put down the camera, don't even touch that FB app to brag about being there, and GO HELP THE PEOPLE WHO'S LIVES HAVE BEEN DESTROYED!

Salvage has been replaced with a cell phone. Tarp anyone? Give me a hand with those family photos. One minute Chief, just gotta check my Facebook.

[FFPCogs 863]

I have to tell you that there needs to be a class on proper etiquette taught to the younger generation of firefighters.

Sadly much of the fire service etiquette seems to be slowly fading away. And those of us who have been around awhile are to blame. If we look the other way when members act disrespectfully or distastefully then the fault lies with us, the "older guys" who should know better. I more often than not find myself at odds with both the younger members and the admin of my FD, as I always speak up and see to it that the nonsense stops when members Facebook or Twitter or act disrespectfully at solemn or formal occasions. When such situations arise I hear the standard lament, "it's not 1980 anymore, it's a different time, you can't expect guys to act like they did years ago, wah wah wah, blah blah blah. I'm so f><king tired of that lame ass BS excuse. As I see it here's the deal, there is a right way and there is a wrong way to conduct yourself when in uniform and that goes doubly so for when we're present at funerals or other significant events. I think many will agree, but I also think that beyond agreeing we have to act when we see the wrong way happening...if we don't who will. I joined my first FD at 16 and believe me, my friends and I were hellions in the extreme. The older members made it clear what was and what was not acceptable....just as it had been made clear to them before us...and they made sure we learned exactly what that meant. I truly am thankful I had men like that around to show me the way...and sometimes do more than just show...because I came out a better person and a far better fireman for it. No matter how many volumes of the latest new age, progressive, politically correct management theory drivel is shoved down my throat I KNOW that what I learned and how I learned it is what works best and is the right thing. Society might be crumbling all around us and there may not be a helluva lot we can do about it outside our world, but in our world we still have control...so when guys need straightening out it's up to us to do just that. 10, 15, 20 years from now those same guys will be thankful we did

Edited April 7, 2014 by FFPCogs

[everybodygoes 331]

If you don't say something to them, you are not helping anything. I say something to the tool bags wearing sunglasses, and the party ribbons on their lapel. I don't give a $h1T if someone gets offended.

[paratrooper75 41]

How about etiquette in general? How many parades have you been to where you see guys in uniform with their shirt untucked, tie falling off, hat all crooked, drinking beer? And some ff's wonder why the publics perseption isn't always favorable. Ever see military personnel look like that? Nope, because there is respect for the uniform and what it stands for.

Edited April 7, 2014 by paratrooper75

[antiquefirelt 994]

Boston should have had a separate area for themselves, and out of towners. Ship the out of towners to Gillete Stadium and let them tailgate or go home.

I'm not sure that's the right answer, in fact I'm sure it isn't. Too often we make blanket policies to address the stupidity of a small sample. If out of town Brother's truly want to pay their respects, the sea of uniformed firefighters can be quite moving. I can tell you the day (in 2000) we marched through Worcester it was a moment I'll never forget, it still send shivers up my spine to remember how the second largest city in New England could be reduced to only the sound of footsteps as Brothers from across this country and further marched to the Centrum. Letting a few clowns disassemble something that's larger than any individual, any one FD or even a country would be a damn shame.

It needs to be said to all by their own bosses that if you act inappropriately while in uniform (regardless of who paid for it) then you will be held accountable for "duties unbecoming of a member". can we not instill a minimum level of respect for other Brother's? This is the epitome of Brotherhood just being a slogan that goes along with a window decal or uniform. It is up to our own members to ensure the new guys coming on understand the true meaning of respect and Brotherhood and up to the bosses to ensure their members represent them in a manner that makes the department proud.

[x635 4,066]

Fireman's Memorial in Albany. 'Nuff said....

[BIGRED1 71]

Fireman's Memorial in Albany. 'Nuff said....

brotontop.jpg

That's a disgrace. These kids are the worst.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

Fireman's Memorial in Albany. 'Nuff said....

brotontop.jpg

Disgraceful! That kid needs a lesson or two!

[BFD1054 1,552]

Disgraceful! That kid needs a lesson or two!

He needs a good ol fashion ass whooping is what he needs. Or perhaps a lesson on what that memorial stands for and what it means to most of us.

I did plenty of stupid s**t when I was younger, believe me. But I could never understand people who destruct property or downright disrespect memorials and other sacred things.

Edited April 8, 2014 by BFD1054

[TimesUp 148]

Management in the fire service today is apprehensive when it come to dealing with problems that happen on duty for fear of a lawsuit. There is no way for the most part a department is going to touch something that happens off duty 2 states away. This is just from my perspective. Law departments in city hall run most fire departments.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Management in the fire service today is apprehensive when it come to dealing with problems that happen on duty for fear of a lawsuit. There is no way for the most part a department is going to touch something that happens off duty 2 states away. This is just from my perspective. Law departments in city hall run most fire departments.

While I agree, it doesn't have to be that difficult if you have policies regarding personal conduct while in uniform. This type of behavior, like most conduct issues would be best handled by the membership as a whole, ensuring the vision their personnel project is one everyone respects. This is something we seem to be losing a day at a time as new people come in and are given a watered down version of the rules of conduct (official and unofficial). Nothing like having a few clowns destroy what otherwise would be a decent rep in the eyes of the public and other FD's.

[FirNaTine 370]

It seems we don't police our own anymore. This yrs ago was done by the Senior men but unfortunately the "so called" Senior guys of today don't feel that it's their Job anymore to reprimand the younger guys and new recruits or even show them the ropes. The Senior guys of today are no way in hell like those of yester year. Many are just as clueless whether it's dealing with an issue like this or even their knowledge of the Job! Many today can't teach the younger and newer recruits anything cause they're just as f****** ignorant and dumb!

[AFS1970 504]

Whatever happened to being discreet? OK, have your cooler of beers for after, although I would much rather go to whatever event is being held where you can be with everyone else and not be isolationist and then complain about the lack of brotherhood. However carrying a case of beer past the church is downright obscene. Here is a radical idea, how about remembering that you are attending a funeral and actually attend it. Even if the church if full they usually have speakers set up. If you went to a non fire service funeral, would it be acceptable to stand there while the family entered, then pop off to the pub or the parking lot, then be there when the family leaves?

I can remember attending the national memorial service in Maryland and getting there to find one member did not bring a tie, because they didn't like to wear them normally so thought it would be OK to not wear one when serving as part of a color guard. Needless to say a quick trip to the store across the street and that member had a tie. I used to think that we had lost an understanding of traditions in the fire service, but i don't think that is it. New kids may not realize that pike poles were once a fishing tool, but I fail to see how you can not realize that a funeral, especially a LODD funeral is a place for reverence.

Oh and as for the kid sitting on the memorial, after his injuries healed, I would personally like to see him thrown out of the department. I am not sure there is much we can do to fix that kind of stupidity, treating any monument like that is something that has to be learned at a young age.

[FFPCogs 863]

I am not sure there is much we can do to fix that kind of stupidity, treating any monument like that is something that has to be learned at a young age.

Respect, for authority, for tradition, for others, for yourself and for just about anything else is something that should be ingrained at a young age. There was a time when it was in the home that you learned these things, then with both parents working and time a precious commodity it fell to schools, churches and the like to teach these things. Then came political correctness and the "everybody's a winner" mentality...and now society is reaping the fruits of sowing those seeds. As I said before we can't do much about that really, other than raise our own children to understand respect and conduct themselves appropriately. But we sure as hell can "enlightened" the uneducated or ignorant about the kind of conduct and behavior we expect in our firehouses. It's no different than the experience, knowledge and fireground prowess "senior guys" are expected to and do pass down newer members about the work. I'm by no means the coddling type, but If a guy doesn't understand what respect means or how to conduct himself because "society" or mommy and daddy never showed him, well than we need to take them by the hand and show them ourselves. It is up to us to put in the effort keep traditions alive, or more to the point here, to set the standard for conduct and teach that standard clearly to everyone from the moment the walk through the door for the first time. From there, as FirNaTine says, we have to police ourselves firmly and fairly, along with practicing what we preach, to ensure our members conduct themselves in manner befitting the uniform they wear and the service they represent.

[storm419 9]

I saw plenty of Boston guys walking around with beer, and plenty of our senior men with 20+ years telling stories of LODD funerals that seemed to pan out exactly like this one. Now I understand the problem with the selfie craze and the "look at me" mentality that plagues social media, and i agree, its a disgrace. And anyone taking pictures of a procession while they should be standing at hand salute should be shot. But don't sit there and say drinking is a new issue or problem in the fire service, and that drinking hasn't been a HUGE part of LODD funerals for years. Just today I heard a story of our last LODD funeral 20 years ago and the mountain of kegs the union provided in a parking lot behind one of our houses, and how a group of FDNY guys who were there but had to work that night liberated one of the kegs....to take to work with them. Sounds to me like a lot of vollies sounding off here with delusions of grandeur. But this is reality. And to be honest, if I were to die in the line of duty I'd want my brothers and a whole shitload of guys I never met before to get together, drink, party and send me off the right way, laughing, smiling and celebrating my life and sacrifice. I'm sure my family would understand, at least I hope they would. Now I'll probably catch flak on here for my opinion and statements but that's ok, just chalk it up to youthful arrogance and case in point of what's wrong with the fire service these days. But I know my job, I love my job, I respect my job, and honor those who've fallen and come before me, but I also understand the culture, we're not Boy Scouts. If the public cant understand that, they can go screw. Not many people have what it takes to run into a burning building not knowing if they'll make it out alive. Don't kid yourselves.

[FFPCogs 863]

Sounds to me like a lot of vollies sounding off here with delusions of grandeur.

There's a time and place for everything, especially in a world full of camera phones and the internet, and you don't have to be a delusional vollie to figure that out.

Edited April 9, 2014 by FFPCogs

[fireboy 6]

it is sad that there has to be a thread about proper etiquette at Firefighter Funerals, members who have been in for 20 years or 2 years you think they would be able to keep it professional for a few hours. We recently buried one of our own senior members and I was surprised at the amount of guys who showed up without ties, wrong insignia, no gloves or no mourning bands. If you cant wear the proper uniform then wear a suit instead. Think to yourself would the guy your honoring show up to your funeral with his uniform all jacked up.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Just today I heard a story of our last LODD funeral 20 years ago and the mountain of kegs the union provided in a parking lot behind one of our houses, and how a group of FDNY guys who were there but had to work that night liberated one of the kegs....to take to work with them. Sounds to me like a lot of vollies sounding off here with delusions of grandeur. But this is reality. And to be honest, if I were to die in the line of duty I'd want my brothers and a whole shitload of guys I never met before to get together, drink, party and send me off the right way, laughing, smiling and celebrating my life and sacrifice. I'm sure my family would understand, at least I hope they would. Now I'll probably catch flak on here for my opinion and statements but that's ok, just chalk it up to youthful arrogance and case in point of what's wrong with the fire service these days. But I know my job, I love my job, I respect my job, and honor those who've fallen and come before me, but I also understand the culture, we're not Boy Scouts. If the public cant understand that, they can go screw. Not many people have what it takes to run into a burning building not knowing if they'll make it out alive. Don't kid yourselves.

I'm not sure anyone is saying that drinking can't be a part of the after service tradition, but how it's done and the public view should be considered. Firefighters in uniform urinating on people's lawns? There has to be some boundaries and thought behind the public image you present. if you have a reasonable expectation of privacy, that's a bit different in my eyes. I know I've been witness (and party to) a things that I'd not want to have been in public but were not at all unreasonable being in Florian Hall in Boston or another locals private drinking establishment.

[pasobuff 38]

Fireman's Memorial in Albany. 'Nuff said....

brotontop.jpg

This has been addressed and the poster was making arrangements to have the picture taken down. Oh, and a public search of this guy has him in jail on other offenses.....

[ex-commish 490]

.

Fireman's Memorial in Albany. 'Nuff said....

What an idiot. Should throw his ass in jail

[velcroMedic1987 330]

I'm not sure anyone is saying that drinking can't be a part of the after service tradition, but how it's done and the public view should be considered. Firefighters in uniform urinating on people's lawns? There has to be some boundaries and thought behind the public image you present. if you have a reasonable expectation of privacy, that's a bit different in my eyes. I know I've been witness (and party to) a things that I'd not want to have been in public but were not at all unreasonable being in Florian Hall in Boston or another locals private drinking establishment.

Why does drinking have to be a part of the tradition - for funerals or parades? If you want to get drunk, don't go to an event with lots of cameras, critics and big heavy trucks that need to be driven around.

Funerals have become social events and it's sad. It is supposed to be a somber showing of respect to the fallen and appreciation to the family but now its become a party event. Go back to your firehouse if you want to have a party. It doesn't need to be on the streets and in public view of those thinking there's a funeral going on.

We are our own worst enemies and the proliferation of cameras and internet distribution of photos/video makes it much easier for stupid behavior to be spread like wildfire.

There's no excuse for drinking in uniform or urinating in public places.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Why does drinking have to be a part of the tradition - for funerals or parades? If you want to get drunk, don't go to an event with lots of cameras, critics and big heavy trucks that need to be driven around.

Funerals have become social events and it's sad. It is supposed to be a somber showing of respect to the fallen and appreciation to the family but now its become a party event. Go back to your firehouse if you want to have a party. It doesn't need to be on the streets and in public view of those thinking there's a funeral going on.

We are our own worst enemies and the proliferation of cameras and internet distribution of photos/video makes it much easier for stupid behavior to be spread like wildfire.

There's no excuse for drinking in uniform or urinating in public places.

I think "have to" is a little strong. Drinking doesn't have to be part of anything and certainly has the potential to result in stupid behavior, thus the responsibility to remain professional (as a state of mind) is shared by all. When you get large numbers of like minded individuals together in an unofficial setting, sharing stories over drinks is routine, in all walks of life. There was a time, not to long ago when most could handle this without devolving into stupidity, but we have yet again allowed some antics to occur without swift and severe repercussions, thus in becomes tacit approval.

Again, we cannot punish the majority for the sins of a small minority, even if they're the ones who get the press. I'm sure even though there's been some eyebrows raised due to these moron's, there were far, far more brothers who paid their respects and celebrated the lives of these men and the fire service as a whole in a manner befitting of our profession. I can't remember the last time I attended a funeral that didn't have some sort of post-ceremony gathering where friends, family and co-workers relaxed and shared stories and laughs. I hope it doesn't come to that.

It's up to all of us to ensure our members know the repercussions of their poor behavior and to hold ourselves and members accountable. You teach your kids how to act when they go to restaurants, right? You don't just stop eating out. Some of us have to realize that we cannot expect some of the newer folks to automatically "get it". As many things change, respect, chivalry, etiquette, and common sense disappear without constant reinforcement.