Man sues Fairview Fire Department over age discrimination

[x635 4,066]

A 45-year old has charged that the Fairview Fire Department has passed him over for jobs because he is too old. But there is no age requirement for the job.

http://www.lohud.com/story/money/personal-finance/taxes/david-mckay-wilson/2014/03/20/fire-volunteer-fights-fairview-age-bias-battle/6669395/

[AFS1970 504]

This case will get interesting, especially since there is no age limit. I am not familiar with NY but is there a mandatory retirement age there? I know we do not have one in CT.

One area where I think the commission may have a problem is that they advised the guy to join the VFD and get certified, then passed him over. So in essence they have a candidate that passed the test, who they then trained, certified and put to work for no money and now say that he isn't a good choice to hire. That seems like somewhat faulty logic to me.

I had to laugh at the commissioner who thought he was just in it for the payday. Since this is an employment case, then yes that would have been the original goal. Everyone who applies for any job anywhere is looking for a payday, just a weekly one. Although the idea that the reason for not hiring him was a bad attitude that is shown by the fact that he sued after they did not hire him, seems odd. How did she know about this attitude if it is only demonstrated after he was turned down?

[FirNaTine 370]

He should be hired immediately! s*** Ive seen 50 yr old guys run frigging circles around younger guys who want to do nothing but sit and play with their laptops all friggin day and then complain when they have to mop the floor! Some of them are lucky if they can even throw a 24' up by themselves! Age to me doesn't mean s*** anymore on our Job! If he's in good enough shape to do the Job and is willing to, which he seems to be by Volunteering to do it then give it to him! WTF!

[PoqFFEMT 6]

I'm finding similar issues like this here in the Hampton Roads area of Virginia. I recently retired from Active Duty Military and am now 42. I've been a volunteer with over 25 years experience. I've applied and am in the middle of several hiring processes right now but being called up to the job is something I'm finding elusive. Talking to those that have interviewed me, I'm always at the top of their lists to be hired.

So what gives? I straight up think it's my age, nothing else. I've scored upper 90's on the civil service exams I've taken. Every physical ability challenge I've taken I have passed with time to spare. Even in the interviews, I'm called back to meet with the Chief and I'm still waiting on the bench.

I guess I can keep applying and performing well on all these "tests", but if no one wants to give an "experienced" person a chance, is it worth the time? I really feel the pressure right now with applying to the department I volunteer for. If I'm not asked to be on the job here, should I stay an volunteer with them? My wife keeps telling me that if I can bust my ass for this department now for the last 12 years as a volunteer, why should I stay if they won't even consider me?

[FF402 133]

Update. He won the case.

http://www.lohud.com/story/money/personal-finance/taxes/david-mckay-wilson/2015/02/11/hecht-wins-fairview/23263401/

[Bnechis 3,961]

Update. He won the case.

http://www.lohud.com/story/money/personal-finance/taxes/david-mckay-wilson/2015/02/11/hecht-wins-fairview/23263401/

And the Journal News snuck in the anti-Semitism accusation against LoGuidice which they previously reported was fabricated by Supervisor Finer.

[FD7807 59]

I get the whole age discrimination thing but they are not just hiring a firefighter for today. They are hiring him to work a 20 year career. How fit will he be in 15 years ? This is the fire department not a membership to the Mickey Mouse Club

Edited February 12, 2015 by FD7807

[SteveC7010 58]

I get the whole age discrimination thing but they are not just hiring a firefighter for today. They are hiring him to work a 20 year career. How fit will he be in 15 years ? This is the fire department not a membership to the Mickey Mouse Club

It does not matter. Age was not part of the job description so it has to be disregarded by law. And, realistically, these days there are an awful lot of very healthy and active people in their sixties who are fully able to perform as well as they did in their forties. I am one of them. Conversely, there are a bunch of mid-forties to mid-fifties paid men in terrible shape in departments all over the country.

I'd also want to see the job description before arguing this point any further. A lot of departments like this hire "paid drivers" or similar titles rather than full firefighters even though they're required to be certified. Since it is possible that the job description may not have required full firefighter physical ability, until we know for sure, debating that point isn't accurate or productive.

Interesting point for everyone, the plaintiff was among the top five on the list, but they hired none of them, picking someone lower down on the list. NYS Civil Service law generally requires hiring from the top three on the list. Sounds to me like they shot themselves in the foot several times over.

[FireMedic049 597]

I get the whole age discrimination thing but they are not just hiring a firefighter for today. They are hiring him to work a 20 year career. How fit will he be in 15 years ? This is the fire department not a membership to the Mickey Mouse Club

True, but there's no guarantee on how fit that 19 year old will be in 15 years.

There's a sufficient number of firefighters that are or were fit enough to work until mandatory retirement at 65 (in some states) that an employer can't legitimately reject an applicant (if fit enough currently) because he/she might not be fit enough to reach full retirement eligibility, especially when you already have no age restrictions for the position.

[on the job 68]

I get the whole age discrimination thing but they are not just hiring a firefighter for today. They are hiring him to work a 20 year career. How fit will he be in 15 years ? This is the fire department not a membership to the Mickey Mouse Club

Man....some people just don't get it, we may not like it, but....its how the law is written.

[FD7807 59]

Man....some people just don't get it, we may not like it, but....its how the law is written.

i get it believe me i get but its a problem i have with society as a whole: when in doubt sue.

[Stepjam 118]

There are plenty of 65 year olds who could run lots of 20 year olds into the ground, when it comes to physical fitness. Just sayin'.....

[kinkchaser 352]

I would apply again and start from the bottom if they agreed to time me with a calendar on the agility

[FireMedic049 597]

i get it believe me i get but its a problem i have with society as a whole: when in doubt sue.

Yes, a lot of people resort to lawsuits when not hired and many of them are essentially baseless since the reason they failed or got passed over is predominantly their own fault rather than some nefarious reason to exclude them.

In this situation, a lawsuit was clearly warranted since the person hired wasn't within the normal selection range for civil service testing and there was the possibility that age was a factor for this guy getting passed over.

Since, he prevailed in court and it was determined that age was a factor, the lawsuit was certainly an appropriate course.

[rob zombie 33]

Unless I read it wrong, the individual and the Dept. settled.

Nobody prevailed in court and nobody won the case.

Both parties agreed on a dollar amount. It was probably less than the individual wanted and less than the district could have lost.

Yes, a lot of people resort to lawsuits when not hired and many of them are essentially baseless since the reason they failed or got passed over is predominantly their own fault rather than some nefarious reason to exclude them.

In this situation, a lawsuit was clearly warranted since the person hired wasn't within the normal selection range for civil service testing and there was the possibility that age was a factor for this guy getting passed over.

Since, he prevailed in court and it was determined that age was a factor, the lawsuit was certainly an appropriate course.

Update. He won the case.

http://www.lohud.com/story/money/personal-finance/taxes/david-mckay-wilson/2015/02/11/hecht-wins-fairview/23263401/

[FireMedic049 597]

Unless I read it wrong, the individual and the Dept. settled.

Nobody prevailed in court and nobody won the case.

Both parties agreed on a dollar amount. It was probably less than the individual wanted and less than the district could have lost.

You may be right. I just reread the article and it seems a bit contradictory. It repeatedly makes reference to the payout as being both an "award" (aka court decision) and a "settlement" (aka the parties reached an agreement to resolve the case).

[spike2231 38]

There are plenty of 65 year olds who could run lots of 20 year olds into the ground, when it comes to physical fitness. Just sayin'.....

I my only be 63 yrs yong but i am still an interior firefighter and on my job i work with a couple of men already in thier seventies todays sixty is yesterdays fifty

[AFS1970 504]

It seems to me that it could actually be more cost effective to hire someone older, as long as they passed all the various tests. They would likely spend less years at top pay before retiring, and might not have as much time vested in the pension when they do retire. Some might not even be maxed out as most who are hired at young ages will be.

Where I work as a Dispatcher (I started at 19) I will max out on my pensions contributions before I am old enough to retire. Of the people who have retired so far, none of them were maxed out, as they were all hired at a higher age than I was. Granted we are not talking about the same risk of physical injury, but each of our retired dispatchers has essentially cost the city less than I have.

[rob zombie 33]

It seems to me that it could actually be more cost effective to hire someone older, as long as they passed all the various tests. They would likely spend less years at top pay before retiring, and might not have as much time vested in the pension when they do retire. Some might not even be maxed out as most who are hired at young ages will be.

Where I work as a Dispatcher (I started at 19) I will max out on my pensions contributions before I am old enough to retire. Of the people who have retired so far, none of them were maxed out, as they were all hired at a higher age than I was. Granted we are not talking about the same risk of physical injury, but each of our retired dispatchers has essentially cost the city less than I have.

You make a valid point but what good return does a fire dept have spending tons of money and time training a ff who is going to leave in less than 20 years and in this case, 15 years? Plus ffs with 15 plus years on the job have valuable experience and are an essential asset to the health of a FD organization.

[rob zombie 33]

I my only be 63 yrs yong but i am still an interior firefighter and on my job i work with a couple of men already in thier seventies todays sixty is yesterdays fifty

That's may be good on your "job", but in the career FD service, with the exception of some high ranking officers with state given exemptions, there is a thing called MANDATORY RETIREMENT AGE. You are forced to retire at a given age and have no say in the matter. You can be in the best shape of your life, doesn't matter, you must leave.