The difference between Ladder Tower and Tower Ladder

[MoFire390 118]

I've heard that there are differences between Ladder Towers and Tower Ladders. Was wondering If this is true.

[BFD1054 1,552]

I've heard that there are differences between Ladder Towers and Tower Ladders. Was wondering If this is true.

Kenny, call it a Truck and avoid all the lingo jargon .

[MoFire390 118]

If it was only that easy mike

[lt411 145]

I always thought that a tower ladder has the bucket/basket on the rear of the truck, and the ladder tower has the basket/bucket on the front. Years ago we had both in FDNY- there were several tower ladders (L14 and L163) that were Sutphen rigs w/ pumps, and all the other TL's were Mack/Baker aerialscopes. The Sutphens were 100 ft. and were often special-called for their longer reach.

Maybe the present-day FDNY brothers can let us know what the current situation is?

[TimesUp 148]

Ladder towers were used in medieval time to attack castles. Archers would shoot at the castle defender from the top. Game of Throwns starts soon. Tower Ladders are the safest type of ariels in the fire service. Rearmount ladders are unpredictable and have been known to hit firefighters in the head while operating at fires.

[antiquefirelt 994]

I believe the general difference is that a ladder tower is a heavy duty aerial ladder with bucket on the end (mid or rearmount) and Tower ladder is used to describe those box beam aerials with buckets that have a ladder attached to the top of the aerial boom, neither being articulating? Using those loose definitions only Aerialscope and Sutphen produce "Tower Ladders" while the rest would be termed Ladder towers. That being said, why this would make a difference to anyone other than local jargon is beyond me.

[MoFire390 118]

Thanks guys for your answers. So now I ask this question: why does Westchester call all ladder towers, tower ladders?? Clearly here we have both types. If it's been LT 1 for years why was it changed to TL 1??

[antiquefirelt 994]

Thanks guys for your answers. So now I ask this question: why does Westchester call all ladder towers, tower ladders?? Clearly here we have both types. If it's been LT 1 for years why was it changed to TL 1??

Why would anyone care? The basic functionality of each is nearly identical or at least as close as the differences between manufacturers recommendations. Breaking this down would be akin to further detailing what type of pump panel was on an engine.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Thanks guys for your answers. So now I ask this question: why does Westchester call all ladder towers, tower ladders?? Clearly here we have both types. If it's been LT 1 for years why was it changed to TL 1??

1) semantics

2) Mack & Sutphen "tower ladders" were more common in the county when the naming was done

[Dinosaur 844]

Thanks guys for your answers. So now I ask this question: why does Westchester call all ladder towers, tower ladders?? Clearly here we have both types. If it's been LT 1 for years why was it changed to TL 1??

You answered your own question, it's WESTCHESTER!

They march to the beat of their own drum.

[MoFire390 118]

If I didn't care I wouldn't have posted the question.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer my questions. Y'all have a good day

[TimesUp 148]

I believe the general difference is that a ladder tower is a heavy duty aerial ladder with bucket on the end (mid or rearmount) and Tower ladder is used to describe those box beam aerials with buckets that have a ladder attached to the top of the aerial boom, neither being articulating? Using those loose definitions only Aerialscope and Sutphen produce "Tower Ladders" while the rest would be termed Ladder towers. That being said, why this would make a difference to anyone other than local jargon is beyond me.

Oh that ladder tower. I was thinking something else. My bad! I'm Sorry for any confusion I might of added to what is already a confusing topic. The explanation above is spot on.

[MoFire390 118]

All good. Nice to see that the ladder tower term goes back to he Middle Ages.

[lad12derff 283]

I thought the only difference in trucks were tower ladders and straight sticks. The fat lazy Truckies ride the TL to the roof and the real Truckies climb to the top!!!

[Remember585 815]

The county only recognizes two aerial device terms - Ladder or Tower Ladder. This was in a letter to all departments a numbero f years ago, eliminating "Tele-Squirts," "Quints" & "Snorkels" to help simplify terminology.

What a department does on it's home turf is it's own deal. It's when they go Mutual Aid somewhere that they should be bringing what the IC is asking for.

IE: If Town A's IC asks for a Tower Ladder, then Town B better bring one or turf it to the next due TL.

[lt411 145]

I thought the only difference in trucks were tower ladders and straight sticks. The fat lazy Truckies ride the TL to the roof and the real Truckies climb to the top!!!

Remember, truckies are " the real firefighters helpers"

[FirNaTine 370]

While on this topic when is the "Emergency Escape Ladder" on a Tower Ladder ok to use for asending and/or descending from the bucket?

[TimesUp 148]

While on this topic when is the "Emergency Escape Ladder" on a Tower Ladder ok to use for asending and/or descending from the bucket?

Only when its too cold to be up there. Make sure the rungs aren't iced up. That would hurt.

[Remember585 815]

While on this topic when is the "Emergency Escape Ladder" on a Tower Ladder ok to use for asending and/or descending from the bucket?

Well, if you're in Mount Vernon, you're s*** out of luck.

[AFS1970 504]

Coming in late to this, but I always thought that the difference (other than a branding difference) was that a ladder tower had a fully useable ladder with a bucket on the end. A Tower Ladder only had the escape ladder that is only used in the rare case where you can't get the bucket lowered and the emergency hydraulics are not working. I am not even sure if this has ever happened.

As for the county only recognizing ladder and tower ladder, isn't that a bit like saying we will consider all engines as hose wagons, we don't care if they have pumps or not? A telesquirt is most definitely a type of engine but a snorkel is it's own thing with some unique features that might be nice to know about, instead of having to remember which number truck is a snorkel.

[FirNaTine 370]

Well, if you're in Mount Vernon, you're s*** out of luck.

Don't understand?

[Bnechis 3,961]

As for the county only recognizing ladder and tower ladder, isn't that a bit like saying we will consider all engines as hose wagons, we don't care if they have pumps or not? A telesquirt is most definitely a type of engine but a snorkel is it's own thing with some unique features that might be nice to know about, instead of having to remember which number truck is a snorkel.

If you own a telesquirt (I do not know if there are any left in Westchester), you can have it identified as an engine of ladder (particularly if you don't have one). There were 4 snorkels (Bedford Hills, Mt Vernon, Scarsdale & Verplanck) I believe all have been replaced with tower ladders (verplanck's is articulating).

Now I have mixed thoughts on the "quint" designation. If you actually run it as a true quint (with proper staffing to be a quint [min. of 6]) it would be nice to know it. That being said I don't believe anyone in Westchester is really running a quint. They are running an understaffed engine with an aerial or a ladder with not enough hose/water to work as an engine.

[Remember585 815]

Don't understand?

From what I recall, their Tower Ladder's escape ladder was removed for some reason or other.

[Bnechis 3,961]

From what I recall, their Tower Ladder's escape ladder was removed for some reason or other.

If memory serves it was left off for cost savings. Need someone to confirm or deny that.

[antiquefirelt 994]

If memory serves it was left off for cost savings. Need someone to confirm or deny that.

Interestingly enough when we bought our ALF MM tower ('06), we went all over NY, NJ, and PA looking at TL's and we seriously reviewed the Mt. Vernon Scope that was somewhere in the build/delivery process. Our Seagrave rep relayed that the escape ladder was left of for a savings, we too sought that savings but alas they were still nearly $100k higher with a real stripped down model. One of the points touched on above that affected our decision to remove the escape ladder was the FDNY TL SOG's, where they note the escape ladder is the last method for leaving the bucket, if I recall after rappelling from the basket!

[Disp123 0]

On 3/23/2014 at 7:45 AM, AFS1970 said:

Coming in late to this, but I always thought that the difference (other than a branding difference) was that a ladder tower had a fully useable ladder with a bucket on the end. A Tower Ladder only had the escape ladder that is only used in the rare case where you can't get the bucket lowered and the emergency hydraulics are not working. I am not even sure if this has ever happened.

As for the county only recognizing ladder and tower ladder, isn't that a bit like saying we will consider all engines as hose wagons, we don't care if they have pumps or not? A telesquirt is most definitely a type of engine but a snorkel is it's own thing with some unique features that might be nice to know about, instead of having to remember which number truck is a snorkel.

 

You are 100% correct on the difference of the those two types of Ariel apparatus.   Ladder tower Ladder to bucket  Tower ladder Bucket with ladder (escape mainly) and you mention Snorkel, but let us not forget the Bronto Skylift Ariel Apparatus   Attached are picture 1 a Ladder Tower and a snorkel next couple of tower ladders and the even tell you that and lastly the Bronto skylift.

With elevated water platforms, first remember Squirt is a Brand of Water Towers.  You have the Articulating and telescopic Water Towers.  While we talk of differences in naming apparatus, in New Jersey a Tanker is a Fire Truck with a pump, and large water supply, but if you call for a Tanker in Mid west to the west coast you better duck cause a Airplane is about to drop water on you.

 

Remember the Truck is a great piece of apparatus, and All Hands Structure fires don't go will hold till  the Truckies arrive!!!!

[AFS1970 504]

LOVE THE THREAD NECROMANCY!

 

I suppose that Tower Ladders, Ladder Towers, Snorkels & Brontos could all be classified as aerial platforms. I think Greenwich used to call Tower 1 Platform 1 when they first got it. 

 

Now the real confusion is that Bronto & Snorkel could also be called articulated booms (I seem to remember that from many years ago). 

 

Also Snorkel, Telesquirt & I think Squrt are all now brands of Smeal.