Firefighters and fire house part of Greenwich budget battle

[x635 4,066]

Greenwich was recently named the community with the most wealthiest citizens in the country.I can't understand why they can't afford to be fully staffed.

Firefighters and fire house part of Greenwich budget battle
Published 11:07 pm, Monday, March 17, 2014

First Selectman Peter Tesei and Fire Chief Peter Siecienski landed a one-two punch Monday night, presenting to the Board of Estimate and Taxation a joint proposal of a two-year fire staffing plan and property pitch for a northwest firehouse. The announcement comes with just days to go before the BET decides on the 2014-15 town budget.

Read more: http://www.greenwichtime.com/local/article/Firefighters-and-fire-house-part-of-Greenwich-5326186.php

[gamewell45 258]

Greenwich was recently named the community with the most wealthiest citizens in the country.I can't understand why they can't afford to be fully staffed.

Read more: http://www.greenwichtime.com/local/article/Firefighters-and-fire-house-part-of-Greenwich-5326186.php

The reason many wealthy people have so much money is because they don't spend it. They tend to nickle and dime everyone to death in order to save money.

[x635 4,066]

Oh, they spend it and then some in Greenwich. The most luxurious homes and cars and everything else. Unless it's their taxes.

[FDNY 10-75 640]

Politicians and the media have these people convinced that we are the enemy and as was stated a lot of them are the cheapest people you can come across.

[DDixie 12]

You probably should start a thread when you know more about the topic than one slanted news article....but alas, that's not the way it goes.

Greenwich is truly not "understaffed" as you suggest. Nor is it relevant to remark on how "wealthy" the town may be, or it's citizens. There are 8 fire stations in Greenwich, with all but one staffed with paid firefighters. There may be a need for more coverage in the northwest corner, but the Fire Dept doesn't take into consideration the next closest station, just a couple of miles away that is all volunteer. What Greenwich needs is a better plan to manage its resources, not necessarily a new, state of the art firehouse. Get all the facts before you stir Mr Granville.

[x635 4,066]

You probably should start a thread when you know more about the topic than one slanted news article....but alas, that's not the way it goes.

Greenwich is truly not "understaffed" as you suggest. Nor is it relevant to remark on how "wealthy" the town may be, or it's citizens. There are 8 fire stations in Greenwich, with all but one staffed with paid firefighters. There may be a need for more coverage in the northwest corner, but the Fire Dept doesn't take into consideration the next closest station, just a couple of miles away that is all volunteer. What Greenwich needs is a better plan to manage its resources, not necessarily a new, state of the art firehouse. Get all the facts before you stir Mr Granville.

It was in the news, I posted it for discussion. Are we not supposed to discuss the news anymore? A large majority of the real estate in Greenwich is expensive, and the Town has a sturdier tax base then most, and can afford a lot more then other communities can. I'm not an economist, but Greenwich is a lot better off then many others FD's. Regardless of the article, it must be a topic of discussion in Greenwich, and from what I take from your comments, a heated one.

Two man, first due engine companies or stations is not proper staffing by any means, regardless if they are backed up by volunteers or not (assuming they are not guaranteed to be at the station at the time of every call). Those two firefighters could arrive at a scene a few minutes before other firefighters or another company, especially depending on "chute" times, and those minutes could mean life or death, or complete property loss or an aggressive stop. Especially when you consider the large real estate in the "backwoods" of Greenwich require an additional response time for the additional Engine, Truck (more square footage to search and vent=more manpower) and FAST companies to get there. And, then on top of that, a large portion of the "backwoods" of Greenwich is not covered by a hydrant system, and there is a huge factor that plays in when you account for all the additional manpower and equipment you will need just to establish a water supply, let alone keep it going.

Let's not account for the other fire service needs in Greenwich, such as one of the busiest interstate highways for tractor trailer use with a high percentage carrying hazardous materials, one of the busiest commuter rail lines in the US with several stations, plus Amtrak and Freight traffic, a dangerous parkway, the Long Island Sound, a nearby airport, proximity to NYC, etc. Just the other week, 3 Greenwich Engine companies and one Rescue company were required for a 90 minute extrication. What if a major fire was to break out then?

Can you elaborate more against the items stated in the article, to give us the perspective of the "other side" as you state?

[DDixie 12]

You make it sound like the only piece of apparatus going to a call is one engine with two people on it, or volunteers are showing up/responding in their cars only. Multiple stations are assigned to calls and staffing from stations can be mixed - paid and volunteers. The only all paid stations, Central and 8, have more than 2 men on shift, and travel around town with more than 2 on a piece.

[Morningjoe 162]

You make it sound like the only piece of apparatus going to a call is one engine with two people on it, or volunteers are showing up/responding in their cars only. Multiple stations are assigned to calls and staffing from stations can be mixed - paid and volunteers. The only all paid stations, Central and 8, have more than 2 men on shift, and travel around town with more than 2 on a piece.

I cannot imagine that GFD responds, on the first alarm within 8 minutes, this:

Anything less, and you're endangering life, of both your citizens, as well as the firefighters there.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I cannot imagine that GFD responds, on the first alarm within 8 minutes, this:

Anything less, and you're endangering life, of both your citizens, as well as the firefighters there.

Well said.

Now the diagram you have shown is the minimum response for a 2,000 sq ft home (or smaller) without a basement. Not many of those in Greenwich.

Anything larger requires more in the 1st 8 minutes.

[Morningjoe 162]

What really irks me, more then the article itself, is that we have a fellow emergency provider, someone who is supposed to be on the same team as all of us, trying to defend the abysmal staffing of what occurs in almost 99.9% of career departments (volunteer staffing is a different problem altogether, and I'm a volunteer). It's not safe for anyone, and anyone who sits there and tries to defend it is absolutely clueless about firefighting, the safety issues that we face (and manage to miraculously dodge fire after fire without more LODDs), and the politicians that we currently fight with day in and day out to provide a safe environment for the communities we've sworn to protect. All of the fire engines in the world mean absolutely nothing, if the correct staffing levels are not there to safely, correctly and efficiently do the job.

I am not a paramedic, and will never sit there and attempt to tell you your protocols need to change when it comes to dosage rates of atropine during a heart attack, because I don't have a damn clue about what I'm talking about. I am not a electrician, nor a painter, or a ditch digger, or a cable repair man, so I will never sit there and tell them how to do their job, or the correct and safe way to do it.

So until you strap on a pair of bunkers, make a hallway, pull a victim out, all while having a vertical vent simultaneously cut, with multiple handlines being stretched, don't tell me the safe way to do my job, because I've also done it the poor staffing way, and can tell you the horrible differences between the two.

This is a public forum now, and every reply that is posted can be read by the public, press, politicians, and those who vote. And for someone who is supposed to be on the same team, as stated in your affiliations under your user name, to sit there and say 2 guys on a rig is perfectly good, does absolutely nothing but hurt us, and all the years of work that unions have fought for.

/rant.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Morningjoe

[DDixie 12]

OK,"Morningjoe"

My profile may say "Paramedic" but that is not the extent of my emergency service experience. Yes, I did work for a large, urban County-based Fire Department. But what I choose to put in my profile is my choice - and doesn't completely divulge my work experience or what I now do for work (not volunteer, I can assure you).

And before I go on and on, urging you to reread my post, let me summarize it for you that I did not defend the 2 man engine staffing. I simply stated that the staffing scenario in the article does not take into consideration ALL resources and staffing that Greenwich has for calls. I was annoyed that Seth posted an article simply to stir crap, without doing any research to give the whole story.

Stop calling me someone who is suppose to "be on the same team" as you - I'm NOT a volunteer (unlike you). I AM a Paramedic (unlike you). I was a career firefighter (unlike you). And, I have first hand experience with the municipal services and issues in Greenwich (probably UNLIKE you, but your profile doesn't say where you're actually from).

And, just so you don't look like a fool in the future, Atropine was never in the protocol for "heartattack." There is no "Heartattack" protocol. Please stop using EMS verbiage that you obviously don't understand. You remind me of the psych patient I had a short time ago who told me that she was in "Cardiac Arrest." She too (just like you) didn't know what she was ranting about, and all I did was laugh about how stupid she sounded.

[Viper 139]

Here's an article that does a good job explaining the need from the people who think that they need a new firehouse and more firefighters to cut response times and increase manpower.

http://www.greenwich-post.com/23002/fire-station-presents-station-and-staffing-initiative/

And the reasons why the town's others oppose it:

http://www.greenwichtime.com/local/article/Fire-staff-among-BET-s-hot-topics-5250114.php

[TimesUp 148]

Here what I learned from all this. greenwich is trying to expand its ranks and build a new firehouse. Good for the guys in Greenwich. Dixie is annoyed that Seth posted a link to the article.

[AFS1970 504]

The need for the new station in Greenwich is not a new one. It has been around for years. At one point it was being called the Proposed King Street station because of the most likely location for any new station. However the lack of approval has spanned across many town and fire department administrations. I personally think that to some extent in our county, Greenwich is the low hanging fruit for the news media. You don't hear much about Westport FD, which has some nominal volunteers, 2 man career staffing and may still have a ladder and rescue that share a 2 man crew. Westport is also a "wealthy" town, although maybe not as full of celebrities as Greenwich.

Resource management is probably the most important aspect of any department, especially when manpower is perceived to be short. However in New England, station locations are generally not in locations that make sense to the current community growth. Sometimes they are located based on a small district within a town, sometimes it was where land was available or appropriate. I am not sure that building stations is always the answer, but one has to look not only at fire potential but also call volume. Yes, lots of big houses in Greenwich. How many have burned to the ground in recent years? What is being done to cover the areas currently? I know there is a large section of Greenwich that is partially covered by Banksville, NY. Just like we have areas in Stamford that are dual responses with both Banksville and Greenwich. I don't want to totally depend on mutual aid, but it is a factor in resource management.

Glad to see the other articles posted, as from what I got in this thread the main complaint was posting only a single article. As for how biased that is, well remember that the President of CBS has been quoted as saying there is no more unbiased news coverage. Like it or not the newspapers are going to take a side and that will extend into every article they write, not just their editorials.

[Morningjoe 162]

OK,"Morningjoe"

My profile may say "Paramedic" but that is not the extent of my emergency service experience. Yes, I did work for a large, urban County-based Fire Department. But what I choose to put in my profile is my choice - and doesn't completely divulge my work experience or what I now do for work (not volunteer, I can assure you).

And before I go on and on, urging you to reread my post, let me summarize it for you that I did not defend the 2 man engine staffing. I simply stated that the staffing scenario in the article does not take into consideration ALL resources and staffing that Greenwich has for calls. I was annoyed that Seth posted an article simply to stir crap, without doing any research to give the whole story.

Stop calling me someone who is suppose to "be on the same team" as you - I'm NOT a volunteer (unlike you). I AM a Paramedic (unlike you). I was a career firefighter (unlike you). And, I have first hand experience with the municipal services and issues in Greenwich (probably UNLIKE you, but your profile doesn't say where you're actually from).

And, just so you don't look like a fool in the future, Atropine was never in the protocol for "heartattack." There is no "Heartattack" protocol. Please stop using EMS verbiage that you obviously don't understand. You remind me of the psych patient I had a short time ago who told me that she was in "Cardiac Arrest." She too (just like you) didn't know what she was ranting about, and all I did was laugh about how stupid she sounded.

I'm on my phone right now, but I'll keep this short and sweet.

We both assumed more then we should have. I'm both career and volunteer. I started as a volly and got hired, and continue to volunteer with the same all volunteer department to this day. I work on two man engines and single man trucks. Glad to know you had a job in the fire service.

I'll hit more when I get back to a computer